8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

conorhal · 03-05-2018 8:53pm

wexie wrote: »

oh so rape and incest are fine are they?
as long as the foetus is viable like?

Yes.
Or do you accept the sins of your father?

robarmstrong · 03-05-2018 8:54pm

conorhal wrote: »

Well none that won't get me banned.

I've no problem with abortion in the case of fatal fetal abnormalities or unviability, that's not what we're voting though is it?

Ah so you do have something to say, you just won't because you're afraid of a ban? How brave. PM me your real thoughts/comments then, feel free, I won't report you, I'll just save the message as a reminder to myself of the pure and utter disrespect pro-life individuals show towards suffering women.

It wasn't a case of FFA nor unviability, just a very very high chance of miscarriage.

Bad law makes hard cases.

robarmstrong · 03-05-2018 9:00pm

People have asked those questions, several times, across three threads. Go look for them.

It's compiled by two pro-choice solicitors with the intent on giving information about the current legislation, the proposed legislation and remains impartial throughout the entirety of the site. They do not endorse either side and merely stand as a reference point for people to go and accurately educate themselves.

conorhal · 03-05-2018 9:05pm

robarmstrong wrote: »

Ah so you do have something to say, you just won't because you're afraid of a ban? How brave. PM me your real thoughts/comments then, feel free, I won't report you, I'll just save the message as a reminder to myself of the pure and utter disrespect pro-life individuals show towards suffering women.

It wasn't a case of FFA nor unviability, just a very very high chance of miscarriage.

Bad law makes hard cases.

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and his tiny perfect form, and bury him.
Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

kylith · 03-05-2018 9:18pm

conorhal wrote: »

Yes.
Or do you accept the sins of your father?

So a woman should be punished for being raped?

SusieBlue · 03-05-2018 9:18pm

conorhal wrote: »

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and bury him. Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

If you knew of robs circumstances I guarantee you wouldn’t feel that way about his situation.

And that’s the ironic thing. I know you’ll sympathize with him when he tells you his story, yet you still blindly judged without knowing what happened.
And that’s exactly what the problem is. Too quick to judge and look down on other people’s choices when we have no idea of what lead them to that decision.

amdublin · 03-05-2018 9:18pm

conorhal wrote: »

robarmstrong wrote: »

Ah so you do have something to say, you just won't because you're afraid of a ban? How brave. PM me your real thoughts/comments then, feel free, I won't report you, I'll just save the message as a reminder to myself of the pure and utter disrespect pro-life individuals show towards suffering women.

It wasn't a case of FFA nor unviability, just a very very high chance of miscarriage.

Bad law makes hard cases.

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and bury him. Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

I am sorry for you and your partner's loss.

Separately though.
What you've said we are voting on. That's not what we're voting on.

We are voting in repealing the 8th amendment I.e. removing it from the constitution. After that the government will legislate.

wexie · 03-05-2018 9:19pm

conorhal wrote: »

Yes.
Or do you accept the sins of your father?

the sins of my father have absolutely nothing to do with me.

nor with my mother and that's kinda the point isn't it? (in the case of rape and incest)

conorhal · 03-05-2018 9:19pm

kylith wrote: »

So a woman should be punished for being raped?

So, should a child?

_Dara_ · 03-05-2018 9:20pm

conorhal wrote: »

So, should a child?

For being raped? No, a child shouldn’t be punished for being raped.

wexie · 03-05-2018 9:20pm

conorhal wrote: »

So, should a child?

ah hang on now....few posts back it was 'just a bunch of cells'...

make up your mind will ya?

robarmstrong · 03-05-2018 9:21pm

conorhal wrote: »

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and bury him. Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

If our baby wasn't aborted, the chances are he was going to die anyways, he didn't implant in the right place so his chances of making it to viability let alone surviving viability were essentially non existent. This was confirmed by the medical professionals we visited, but due to there being the tiniest chance of him making it to viability they denied us the abortion.

Don't dare tell me I made him suffer out of uncertainty, we have wanted each and every single one of our pregnancies to be successful and so far only our current one has implanted in the right place and she'll be here in July.

swampgas · 03-05-2018 9:23pm

conorhal wrote: »

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and bury him. Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

I was wondering what emotional trauma was behind your anger. I can understand your pain but am saddened that you cannot see beyond your own anguish to the no less real anguish of women who need abortions. To be horribly blunt, this is not all about you. There is no point redirecting your anger at what happened to you into hatred of other women who you think are rejecting the healthy pregnancy you were denied. Unresolved anger and hate like that will eat you alive.
.

NuMarvel · 03-05-2018 9:24pm

Your posts aren't showing that at all. You're saying it often, but that's not showing it. As you say, repeating your statement won't make it true.

If it really is propaganda, why don't you tell us how the answers are wrong? Or maybe give your own, sure-to-be-impartial, FAQ.

bruschi · 03-05-2018 9:24pm

erica74 wrote: »

I passed an empty shop in New Ross today which has recently been taken over by an antichoice group, lots of LoveBoth posters in the window and lots of posters and literature in the shop itself. There were people going in and out picking up leaflets and chatting with the women running the place.
I don't understand how everyone isn't questioning the source of the money the No side is being run on. The sheer volume of posters, people handing out leaflets in town centres, people standing around towns with massive posters, properly organised large scale places like what I saw today. Where do people think that money is coming from?!

This one here?

https://twitter.com/DerekOR14/status/991349375115976704?s=19

2 unlimited, that's a blast from the past!

conorhal · 03-05-2018 9:24pm

amdublin wrote: »

I am sorry for you and your partner's loss.

Separately though.
What you've said we are voting on. That's not what we're voting on.

We are voting in repealing the 8th amendment I.e. removing it from the constitution. After that the government will legislate.

I lost too.

We know what the legislation is already, it's abhorrent and we don't know what a future abhorrent government will legislate for. The 8th is the only, slim as it is protection the unborn have. If this was a vote on fatal fetal abnormality I'd swallow my principles and vote for it, this legislation is for unqualified abortion on demand. I imagine it will probably pass, that will be a sad day.

robarmstrong · 03-05-2018 9:25pm

Our Position

We have both written in support of a ‘yes’ vote on the 25th of May. However, on this website we do not present arguments for or against any outcome. Instead, we aim to present accurate and objective information about the law. We believe that information should be empowering: it should be clear, accessible and objective and that is what we aim to present here. Such information aids people in making their decisions, whatever those decisions become.

Cop on to yourself.

I hear myself loud and clear, have you anything to contribute or are you another on the fencer?

wexie · 03-05-2018 9:25pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

If it really is propaganda, why don't you tell us how the answers are wrong? Or maybe give your own, sure-to-be-impartial, FAQ.

You'll be waiting a while for an answer to that I'd say

Dressing gown · 03-05-2018 9:27pm

conorhal wrote: »

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and his tiny perfect form, and bury him.
Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

A fetus is not a child. For the sake of argument even if it was, it can’t process pain until the 20th week of gestation as the brain structure necessary to do so hasn’t yet developed. There is argument over even at the 20th week pain is processed. So I’m afraid for abortions before 20 weeks (the majority of them that you are so interested in), there is no ‘child’ suffering. In addition, most late stage abortions are fatal fetal abnormality which you claim are acceptable.

That said, I’m truly sorry for the loss of your son Adam.

conorhal · 03-05-2018 9:33pm

swampgas wrote: »

I was wondering what emotional trauma was behind your anger. I can understand your pain but am saddened that you cannot see beyond your own anguish to the no less real anguish of women who need abortions. To be horribly blunt, this is not all about you. There is no point redirecting your anger at what happened to you into hatred of other women who you think are rejecting the healthy pregnancy you were denied. Unresolved anger and hate like will eat you alive.

There is a gulf of a difference between 'need' and 'want' and need isn't what this legislation is about.

Hannibal_Smith · 03-05-2018 9:34pm

conorhal wrote: »

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and his tiny perfect form, and bury him.
Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

First of all Conorhal, I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope yourself and your partner are ok.

I have had a miscarriage, and when the baby is wanted, a miscarriage is an awful awful experience at any stage in a pregnancy.

If the woman does not want to carry the pregnancy, you're right, it is made on selfish grounds I suppose. The woman decides what is right for her. But we all make selfish acts every day. We all make decisions that are for our own benefit. Forcing a woman to bring an unwanted child into the world is selfish. Abortion doesn't sit well with you, do you decide no one should have one. That is selfish.

5 and a half month gestation is completely different to 12 weeks. From all of the 'in her shoes' stories I've read, any abortion later than 12 weeks have been heart breaking. And not a choice. They have been cases of ffa. That was as far from the parents choice as you could get. When the baby is born it will die shortly after. Continuing a pregnancy with everyone asking How you are, knowing what is ahead of you. That is far from the parents choice. Ending the pregnancy is probably selfish on those grounds. On the other hand it could be the most humanely kindest option you could offer.

amcalester · 03-05-2018 9:34pm

conorhal wrote: »

There is a gulf of a difference between 'need' and 'want' and need isn't what this legislation is about.

Makes no difference when the status quo is can’t.

Sorry for your loss.

robarmstrong · 03-05-2018 9:34pm

swampgas wrote: »

Another new poster. Welcome to the thread, new poster. Tell me,are you familiar with he concept of irony?

Throw him/she on the ignore list, that's what I've done.

Quite clear he/she hasn't actually bothered reading the aboutthe8th website. As someone who is pro-life by belief but voting to repeal that site helped me understand the 8th and everything that comes with it. There's literally no agenda about it, its essentially just a Wikipedia type site.

Moiratat · 03-05-2018 9:36pm

conorhal wrote: »

My opinion? Here you go.

You chose a child to suffer rather than suffer the uncertainty of a child.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortion is that selfish.
My real opinion is that the vast majority of abortions are represented and reinforce that opinion and that is what we're going to vote for.

Edit:
My really real opinion. My partner at the time suffered a miscarriage at five and a half months. We got to see Adam and his tiny perfect form, and bury him.
Nobody well ever tell me that's a 'choice'.

So am I selfish? Did I make my child suffer?

SusieBlue · 03-05-2018 9:41pm

Why would he (or anyone) want to engage with someone who is being dismissive and disrespectful about a traumatic deeply personal experience he had?

It wasnt me123 · 03-05-2018 9:41pm

Shadowstrife wrote: »

Nah you see so many undecided people will not publicly voice how they really feel, and that's why Yes will probably lose this one. It's an uncomfortable truth, the undecided silent voters have been given a shaky answer as to what happens if Yes wins.

Why? Because governments come and go. I want Yes to win obviously, but are we giving the undecided/ questioning voters a real reason to vote with us?

What makes you think that all the undicided will vote No? if you are a genuine repeal voter you have a funny way of showing it.

FF don't have enough TDs to run a government, what makes you think that those few will swing voters 30%? No chance.

The no vote has not been above 30% since this started - what if the undicideds all vote Yes.

You are no more a Repeal voter than End of the Road who only "likes" no voters posts.

The polls say repeal will win 70 / 30 and I actually agree with them.

Ken. · 03-05-2018 9:45pm

Mod-conorhal do not post in this thread again. Reason- Offensive and trolling posts.

captbarnacles · 03-05-2018 9:46pm

:pac:

Never saw that coming.

The FAQ seems biased to you because prolifers have had the same things explained to them over and over and over again.

FutureGuy · 03-05-2018 9:52pm

I spoke to a young man who was campaigning today to keep the eighth amendment. I had heard him use the term "murder babies" to another person so I felt I had to engage.

During our conversation, which focused on the choice faced by parents who had suffered the tragic news that their baby had a fatal fetal abnormality and wouldn't live, I learned lots of new things.

- An 8-week old "baby" in the womb is fully formed.
- A 5-week old "baby" in the womb can feel pain.
- A fatal fetal abnormality is a deformity and includes "big heads".
- That if I chose euthanasia to willingly end my suffering, it was murder.
- That when given the choice between having a termination to prevent any suffering or going to full term and have the baby suffer, that the latter is the best choice because it's not murder and because you can have lovely moments with the baby for whatever time they have.

So this is where we are at. This is what the repeal side is up against.

Timberrrrrrrr · 03-05-2018 9:52pm

Care to read through the FAQ and maybe pointbout the parts of it that are untruths? If there is anything untrue in it then we can petition for its removal?

Or are you just unhappy that the FAQ has been put there to stop the 2 or 3 new posters coming into the thread EVERY DAY and asking the same questions over and over to default thread?

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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