8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Savita's photo on Yes posters around Galway is a powerful image.

A reminder of the tragedy the current law can cause.

DOS

wexie wrote: »

I think I might have to correct you on that one Martina, I don't think it's a coincidence at all. I think it's a consequence of that fact that people come on here debating a very personal and very emotional subject.

Coming to this debate armed with nothing but opinions and beliefs and consequently being confronted with facts and statistics can be quite the eye opener and clearly not everyone takes it as well as others.

I think there are a good few yes voters here who will happily engage anyone in a reasoned and civil debate regardless of their initial posts. (I wouldn't necessarily include myself in this depending on my mood ) but what I've seen time and time again is that once confronted with reason and logic the no voters, once they have run out of arguments, tend to get themselves banned on the basis of their reactions.

I can't even always blame them either, it's not always easy having your views questioned and shown to be based on little other than prejudice.

There are a few notable exceptions (Just Her being one at the moment) but certainly from what I can tell they are the exceptions.

I'd agree with you though that I don't think it's down the moderation. If nothing else there's more than a few yes voters that got infractions today (myself included, though I have to say if I knew I was going to get an infraction for that particular post I'd have been a lot less polite )

You can only laugh at the smugness of some of these self congratulatory posts!!

The No posters are banned because they are not allowed express their opinion that abortion usually prevents a healthy baby from being born. If they say 'kill' they'll be banned pretty soon.

Stats and facts. Whether one considers the 'termination' of a pregnancy by design as the taking of a life has everything to do with conscience, upbringing, personal belief. Very little to do with fact. It is emotional.

To think there's some intellectual gulf between both sides is nonsense and a result of the echo chamber effect.

You're never as bright as all the likes make you think..or that dull either. The truth lies in between.

I'll conclude with an observation of a late American President.. 'Those in favour of abortion are already born'.

It wasnt me123

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

True but FFers know pro life stances will get them re-elected.

Not by me

Timberrrrrrrr

DOS wrote: »

You can only laugh at the smugness of some of these self congratulatory posts!!

The No posters are banned because they are not allowed express their opinion that abortion usually prevents a healthy baby from being born. If they say 'kill' they'll be banned pretty soon.

Stats and facts. Whether one considers the 'termination' of a pregnancy by design as the taking of a life has everything to do with conscience, upbringing, personal belief. Very little to do with fact. It is emotional.

To think there's some intellectual gulf between both sides is nonsense and a result of the echo chamber effect.

You're never as bright as all the likes make you think..or that dull either. The truth lies in between.

I'll conclude with an observation of a late American President.. 'Those in favour of abortion are already born'.

Utter codswallop!

When someone consistently makes claims and refuses to back up any of those claims with evidence then they deserve to be thread banned no matter what side they are on.

DOS

spookwoman wrote: »

I thought I was going to wake up to one after last night. Some of the posts make us see red especially the words they use.

The words 'they' use. You really have a 'them' and 'us' complex pretty bad.

You are my neighbour as I am yours. We chat in the street, at the shop. We've dined together. After next Saturday we have to get along.

There are people you think will vote Yes will vote No and vice versa. This 'they' needs to stop.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Martina1991 wrote: »

The reasons for many people being banned here include Trolling, hurling personal abuse, comparing the referendum to the holocaust, calling abortion genocide, avoiding questions, derailing the thread, telling lies etc.

But it is quite a coincidence that many of these posters have been on the anti choice side.

Not much of a coincidence really. Anyone with a vague knowledge of boards.ie would expect a thread like this to be dominated by those of a more progressive/liberal hue...and they’d be right.

SusieBlue

Remember the guy whose ‘friend’ thought forced hysterectomies were a good way to punish women who sought abortions?
He was a fun guy.

DOS

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Utter codswallop!

When someone consistently makes claims and refuses to back up any of those claims with evidence then they deserve to be thread banned no matter what side they are on.

Again you fail to see that one person's termination is the destruction of unborn life for another.

There is no evidence!! What you term a foetus/clump of cells is an unborn human with 46 chromosomes for another.

You my friend are talking utter codswallop!

It wasnt me123

greenpilot wrote: »

Another own goal for the No crowd. Does not get any better than this....for Christs sake.


http://theliberal.ie/the-mother-of-the-late-dolores-oriordan-says-her-daughter-was-pro-life-and-has-asked-people-to-vote-no/

What a load of tripe.

Dolores didn't want the life sucked out of a woman!!!!

Had no problem going on an alcoholic binge and beating up flight attendants; no problem using drugs

Yeah she was a great role model

wexie

DOS wrote: »

You can only laugh at the smugness of some of these self congratulatory posts!!

The No posters are banned because they are not allowed express their opinion that abortion usually prevents a healthy baby from being born. If they say 'kill' they'll be banned pretty soon.

There has been nobody banned from this thread for respectfully voicing an opinion or disagreeing with one.

DOS wrote: »

Stats and facts. Whether one considers the 'termination' of a pregnancy by design as the taking of a life has everything to do with conscience, upbringing, personal belief. Very little to do with fact. It is emotional.

Of course it is, that shouldn't stop people from being respectful though? Nor does it excuse the screeching of 'nazi's' and 'murderers'

DOS wrote: »

I'll conclude with an observation of a late American President.. 'Those in favour of abortion are already born'.

ah yes....the same great mind that brought us some beauties like :

All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk.

Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.

and

We are never defeated unless we give up on God

:rolleyes:

DOS

wexie wrote: »

There has been nobody banned from this thread for respectfully voicing an opinion or disagreeing with one.



Of course it is, that shouldn't stop people from being respectful though? Nor does it excuse the screeching of 'nazi's' and 'murderers'



ah yes....the same great mind that brought us some beauties like :





and



:rolleyes:

Roll eyes to your heart's content but he was a shrewd man. Who along with Gorbachev, the then Pope JPII, brought a stability to the world not seen since.

It wasnt me123

Flying Fox wrote: »

....... She just rang me to say she's going to vote Yes. Now I would say she's a soft Yes but I'm amazed she was even willing to consider it.

If you can, thank her on behalf of my 16 year old daughter - who I hope will never need a termination but with a yes vote can at least get medical treatment in her own country.

Her vote will make a difference to my daughters medical treatment into the future.

nozzferrahhtoo

DOS wrote: »

Again you fail to see that one person's termination is the destruction of unborn life for another.

It is entirely false to suggest we "fail to see" such things. We see it fine, we just do not get shown a coherent or reasoned reason for it.

As I keep telling a few users in particular "WHAT You believe is abundantly clear, the basis for believing it not so much".

There are many people who disagree with the basis I have for thinking choice based abortion is ok. Hell even a small number of pro choice people strongly disagree with my reasoning.

But what I can NEVER be correctly accused of is not having explained the exact basis of my position, why I hold it, why it is defensible, and what the arguments, evidence, data and reasoning behind it actually is.

Those against choice based abortion...... not so much.

And no one who disagrees with my position has responded to it at the level it has been presented..... with argument, evidence, data or reason.

Achasanai

DOS wrote: »

I hope Maria Steen is on the No panel for the final debate.

She upsets the Yes propagandists so.. similar to the effect garlic and crucifixes has on vampires!

To be honest, I think this is a pretty good summation of the No campaign's thinking up until this point, and although it will be a close-run thing in the end, I think they've really messed up on just how to target their campaign. What they should have been doing all along is targeting the undecideds, as there's very little wiggle-room on the core no and yes vote. But they - primarily in the form of John McGuirk, but also all the off-shoot campaigns - have been more than happy to 'upset' the yes side. This in itself turns off the undecideds, but added to that, Maria Steen is not the sort of person to win over the undecideds (neither is the Wendy one from Spirit radio).



The yes side have their own versions of this - in terms of people and how part of their campaign has been organised - but there have been significant attempts to sway the undecideds.

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Savita's photo on Yes posters around Galway is a powerful image.

A reminder of the tragedy the current law can cause.

Depressingly, and insultingly for Savita's family, her image is being used in posters around Dublin by the No campaign too.

DOS

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

What a load of tripe.

Dolores didn't want the life sucked out of a woman!!!!

Had no problem going on an alcoholic binge and beating up flight attendants; no problem using drugs

Yeah she was a great role model

Cheap shots.

She struggled with her mental health. Are you perfect?

Overheal

DOS wrote: »

Roll eyes to your heart's content but he was a shrewd man. Who along with Gorbachev, the then Pope JPII, brought a stability to the world not seen since.

Not actually: he set the US down a path it hasn’t recovered from, absurd war budgets to build hammers bigger than everyone else, and to hammers every problem looks like a nail.

erica74

DOS wrote: »

Again you fail to see that one person's termination is the destruction of unborn life for another.

So 2 different people view abortion differently? Fancy that!

Achasanai

Achasanai wrote: »

Depressingly, and insultingly for Savita's family, her image is being used in posters around Dublin by the No campaign too.

Seriously? What angle are they using?

The No camp seem to be the desperate camp.

Surely they need permission to use an image?

It wasnt me123

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

........

our banned friend BertieInExile. I'm surprised he hasn't found a way to sneak back into the thread.

Ah now I liked Bertie but its a bit early in the day for him to be posting as I think he is over in the west - very far west!

He was a good sport, though kept getting his oirishness all upside down. It was very funny.

I hope he likes my post

DOS

Achasanai wrote: »

To be honest, I think this is a pretty good summation of the No campaign's thinking up until this point, and although it will be a close-run thing in the end, I think they've really messed up on just how to target their campaign. What they should have been doing all along is targeting the undecideds, as there's very little wiggle-room on the core no and yes vote. But they - primarily in the form of John McGuirk, but also all the off-shoot campaigns - have been more than happy to 'upset' the yes side. This in itself turns off the undecideds, but added to that, Maria Steen is not the sort of person to win over the undecideds (neither is the Wendy one from Spirit radio).



The yes side have their own versions of this - in terms of people and how part of their campaign has been organised - but there have been significant attempts to sway the undecideds.





Depressingly, and insultingly for Savita's family, her image is being used in posters around Dublin by the No campaign too.

On the doorstep Maria Steen has been mentioned as opening people's minds. Like her or not she debates well.

Dr. Boylan was in a right fudge, especially when it was revealed only a clique of obstetricians were made aware of the meeting to vote yes.

He's a liability and looks like he's paid off. He comes across as a very arrogant man.

spookwoman

DOS wrote: »

The words 'they' use. You really have a 'them' and 'us' complex pretty bad.

You are my neighbour as I am yours. We chat in the street, at the shop. We've dined together. After next Saturday we have to get along.

There are people you think will vote Yes will vote No and vice versa. This 'they' needs to stop.

Them
ðɛm,ðəm/Submit
pronoun
1.
used as the object of a verb or preposition to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.

Pray tell me what words am I supposed to use? I would very much like to know the proper use of the queen's english.......

I have seen plenty of posts by yourself distinguishing between the yes and no side, I believe the phrase is pot calling the kettle black.

I don't know who you are in real life, I have never spoken with you on the street and I know I have never dined with you. I also know one thing for sure I don't want to get to know you ,even after the 25th.

Timberrrrrrrr

DOS wrote: »

Again you fail to see that one person's termination is the destruction of unborn life for another.

This I fully understand, we all have our opinions and we are L entitled to said opinions.

There is no evidence!! What you term a foetus/clump of cells is an unborn human with 46 chromosomes for another.

You my friend are talking utter codswallop!

To you it's a living person to me it's a clump of cells, again these are the opinions that we have both formed and we are both entitled to them.

The evidence I am talking about is the wild claims of abortion free for all up to 6 months and even to term, abortion clinics ready to set up at the drop of a hat and many many other ridiculous claims that the said banned posters refuses to provide a shred of evidence for.

DOS

erica74 wrote: »

So 2 different people view abortion differently? Fancy that!

Good on you Erica. Now you can understand how one side believe the unborn should have rights🙂

DOS

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This I fully understand, we all have our opinions and we are L entitled to said opinions.



To you it's a living person to me it's a clump of cells, again these are the opinions that we have both formed and we are both entitled to them.

The evidence I am talking about is the wild claims of abortion free for all up to 6 months and even to term, abortion clinics ready to set up at the drop of a hat and many many other ridiculous claims that the said banned posters refuses to provide a shred of evidence for.

But Timbrrr I think that's the fear of us on the No side. Once the 8th is gone we don't trust our politicians.

ArmaniJeanss

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Seriously? What angle are they using?

The No camp seem to be the desperate camp.

Surely they need permission to use an image?

Both posters side by side.

https://www.facebook.com/RuthCoppingerTD/posts/1693520757405225

The No side came up with almost identical size, colour, font and image.

nozzferrahhtoo

DOS wrote: »

But Timbrrr I think that's the fear of us on the No side. Once the 8th is gone we don't trust our politicians.

Thankfully with things like abortion you do not need to. Because regardless of whether it is legal or illegal, strict or liberal.... it does not matter. The people generally do the same thing everywhere. Which is that 80% of abortions happen by week 10, over 90% by week 12 and the near totality of the tiny remaining % by week 16.

However much you distrust politicians, it is hard to see any plausible, coherent or likely was they can actually mess it up. It sounds more like some people do not trust their own anti abortion arguments, so they project that to an external target. In this case, politicians.

Timberrrrrrrr

DOS wrote: »

But Timbrrr I think that's the fear of us on the No side. Once the 8th is gone we don't trust our politicians.

8 r's in Timberrrrrrrr thank you

You trust politicians to deal with every aspect of your life, every day of your life from womb to tomb (to coin a phrase) so why stop trusting them now?

Calina

DOS wrote: »

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This I fully understand, we all have our opinions and we are L entitled to said opinions.



To you it's a living person to me it's a clump of cells, again these are the opinions that we have both formed and we are both entitled to them.

The evidence I am talking about is the wild claims of abortion free for all up to 6 months and even to term, abortion clinics ready to set up at the drop of a hat and many many other ridiculous claims that the said banned posters refuses to provide a shred of evidence for.

But Timbrrr I think that's the fear of us on the No side. Once the 8th is gone we don't trust our politicians.

You don't trust anyone. Pat Kenny pointed out to Maria Steen that she didn't trust the doctors and obstetricians to do their jobs, nor the politicians to do theirs nor women to make case specific decisions that directly affect them.

What it boils down to is you don't trust anyone to submit to your authority.

ArmaniJeanss

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Both posters side by side.

https://www.facebook.com/RuthCoppingerTD/posts/1693520757405225

The No side came up with almost identical size, colour, font and image.

Bottom of the barrel stuff from the No side. Disgraceful. :mad:

DOS

I sincerely hope that when (I can't see a No vote over 45%) Yes win there will be respect all around.

It's a sensitive, personal topic and any gloating would be regrettable. Likewise if No get a surge, but I don't see it.