8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Sofiztikated

January wrote: »

Which wildlife?

He's banging on about the fact its illegal to take eggs from birds nests.

ELM327

RobertKK wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/early-and-accurate-new-dna-blood-tests-take-pregnancy-screening-to-new-levels-1.2007509



It was also on Liveline yesterday I think it was and Joe played Rhona Mahony saying out of 100 women, 50 would then go for an abortion if the test showed Down Syndrome.

Other than catholic guilt there is no reason to enforce the birth of a burden on anyone.

Triceratops Ballet

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wonder if NO wins what will happen , It won't win , i don't think it'll be even close but would you say the YES campaign would accept the nation vote ?
I'd imagine there would be huge marches like never seen here before,
All the mayhem that ensued after the Belfast rape trail would be multiplied by 10

The thing is if No wins, nothing changes, there's a significant number of pro repealers who've been going on various incarnations of the march for choice since 1983. I've been going since my teens. Repealers are used to fighting for what they want so they'll just keep on doing it until they win.

.......

This post has been deleted.

erica74

Came home to some shite leaflet through the letterbox. SHOVE IT ALL UP YOUR ARSE LOVENONE.

Martina1991

RobertKK wrote:

I would say given the medical expert has two lives to look after, the unborn needs the mother to be well so the mother gets primary care, he or she operate at a level where standards have to be extremely high as they work from a position where all life is valued under the 8th.

The standards of care in Ireland are world class under the 8th and it has not hindered standards of care, where medical people have followed learned practice.

The following is an extract from a woman's story on the FB page In Her Shoes posted today.

"I suffered cardiac issues in my first pregnancy at the end and in labour, it was scary to say the least. Afterwards I was told it was just an unfortunate side effect of my pregnancy and no more was ever said about it. When I fell pregnant again the cardiac issues occurred from 10 weeks and got worse every week.

At 22 weeks I followed my GPs advice of heading straight to the hospital if I was worried. I was brought into a room on the maternity ward straight away and my baby was checked out immediately. Baby was fine. It took over half an hour for anyone to take my pulse. When the consultant came in the nurse gave an overview of my symptoms. The consultant panicked and said the baby has erratic and irregular heart rate and once they were told no its the mother they replied oh just the mother and walked off.

That day it hit me so hard that it didnt matter what was happening to me as long as the baby was ok. I felt so sad and angry and then guilty that I was worrying about myself. Ive learnt since its ok to feel sad and angry, Im not being selfish wanting to be ok. Its not selfish to want to be alive for my husband and daughter. I cried on the way home. That was the start of many visits where I left in tears.

36 weeks arrived and I hobbled into the consultant’s room and I asked for my section date and he said we’d review at 38 weeks as the baby may not be breech then. I got angry and explained yet again that no matter what way the baby was I needed this to happen soon, I was beyond desperate just trying to exist every day and I was afraid of what pushing a baby out would do to my heart again.

My baby came 2 days before 39 weeks and I was near cardiac arrest through the delivery. I spent 7 hours in recovery afterwards as my heart went into a very erratic state. The poor midwife that pulled the short straw that day was amazing to me and was so angry that I was not having a section but she worked hard to look after me and to keep me calm.

The next day I was discharged and during that process I was advised not to get pregnant again as the cardiac issues would possibly be worse, possibly start earlier in the pregnancy and there would be a high risk of heart failure due to all I’ve been through or lifelong damage. I was also advised to speak to my GP about having some additional check-ups.
I cried.

Voting No is not stopping abortions, it is just punishing and torturing women who choose to have them. It is also ensuring that we continue to be treated as vessels without a voice.

Voting Yes gives us a voice, ownership of our own bodies and is removing the punishment for a situation that may be unfavourable to a certain group of the population yet has absolutely no bearing on their lives whatsoever".

Emer, Mayo.

Robert I really wish you would open your eyes and ears and LISTEN to these women who are all around you.

Whether you think abortion is wrong is your own belief. Stop standing in the way of our maternity care.

Triceratops Ballet

I'm so sick of the phrase "abortion on demand", like what is so wrong with something being available when you want it? I turn on my taps every day and get "water on demand", light switches give me "light on demand", but if I don't want them I don't turn on my taps or my lights and I don't have either (also on demand)

January

Martina1991 wrote: »

The following is an extract from a woman's story on the FB page In Her Shoes posted today.

"I suffered cardiac issues in my first pregnancy at the end and in labour, it was scary to say the least. Afterwards I was told it was just an unfortunate side effect of my pregnancy and no more was ever said about it. When I fell pregnant again the cardiac issues occurred from 10 weeks and got worse every week.

At 22 weeks I followed my GP’s advice of heading straight to the hospital if I was worried. I was brought into a room on the maternity ward straight away and my baby was checked out immediately. Baby was fine. It took over half an hour for anyone to take my pulse. When the consultant came in the nurse gave an overview of my symptoms. The consultant panicked and said ‘the baby has erratic and irregular heart rate?’ and once they were told no it’s the mother they replied ‘oh just the mother’ and walked off.

That day it hit me so hard that it didn’t matter what was happening to me as long as the baby was ok. I felt so sad and angry and then guilty that I was worrying about myself. I’ve learnt since it’s ok to feel sad and angry, I’m not being selfish wanting to be ok. It’s not selfish to want to be alive for my husband and daughter. I cried on the way home. That was the start of many visits where I left in tears.

36 weeks arrived and I hobbled into the consultant’s room and I asked for my section date and he said we’d review at 38 weeks as the baby may not be breech then. I got angry and explained yet again that no matter what way the baby was I needed this to happen soon, I was beyond desperate just trying to exist every day and I was afraid of what pushing a baby out would do to my heart again.

My baby came 2 days before 39 weeks and I was near cardiac arrest through the delivery. I spent 7 hours in recovery afterwards as my heart went into a very erratic state. The poor midwife that pulled the short straw that day was amazing to me and was so angry that I was not having a section but she worked hard to look after me and to keep me calm.

The next day I was discharged and during that process I was advised not to get pregnant again as the cardiac issues would possibly be worse, possibly start earlier in the pregnancy and there would be a high risk of heart failure due to all I’ve been through or lifelong damage. I was also advised to speak to my GP about having some additional check-ups.
I cried.

Voting No is not stopping abortions, it is just punishing and torturing women who choose to have them. It is also ensuring that we continue to be treated as vessels without a voice.

Voting Yes gives us a voice, ownership of our own bodies and is removing the punishment for a situation that may be unfavourable to a certain group of the population yet has absolutely no bearing on their lives whatsoever".

Emer, Mayo.

Robert I really wish you would open your eyes and ears and LISTEN to these women who are all around you.

Whether you think abortion is wrong is your own belief. Stop standing in the way of our maternity care.

He'll still deny that that has anything to do with the 8th. Head firmly in the sand.

Zubeneschamali

RobertKK wrote: »

Look at what the Supreme Court ruled which said the 8th amendment is the only protection that the unborn lives have in Irish law.

They did not rule that, and I corrected you last time you posted that.

Continuing to post things which are untrue after you know they are untrue is very naughty.

Zubeneschamali

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I'm so sick of the phrase "abortion on demand"

They used to be Words of Power in the 80s, you just had to say "abortion on demand" and politicians would run and hide.

The whole Irish prolife movement are shellshocked since the Citizens Assembly report came out, they yelled "Abortion on demand!" and everyone said "yes, please!".

It's as if they said "The Power Of Christ Compels You!" and the demons laughed at them.

circadian

Just spotted a love both poster stating 12 weeks. An improvement at least.

Triceratops Ballet

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

They used to be Words of Power in the 80s, you just had to say "abortion on demand" and politicians would run and hide.

The whole Irish prolife movement are shellshocked since the Citizens Assembly report came out, they yelled "Abortion on demand!" and everyone said "yes, please!".

It's as if they said "The Power Of Christ Compels You!" and the demons laughed at them.

I've always thought "well duh! when else would you be having an abortion?!"

Sofiztikated

circadian wrote: »

Just spotted a love both poster stating 12 weeks. An improvement at least.

They've been around a while, one of the first I think.

I think when most people went "And?" They went and upped the ante.

Sofiztikated

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

They did not rule that, and I corrected you last time you posted that.

Continuing to post things which are untrue after you know they are untrue is very naughty.

That's Sideshow Kilkenny Bobs MO though.

Say outlandish things, gets pulled on it, disappears, and comes back to repeat it later when he thinks he'll get away with it again.

pitifulgod

Sofiztikated wrote: »

He's banging on about the fact its illegal to take eggs from birds nests.

I think he's also referring to efforts to prevent animals from going extinct. Which isn't exactly comparable, Robert seems to model his points on "what Trump might say".

Hotblack Desiato

seamus wrote: »

The posters who are thanking but never commenting, are thread-banned.

Or trying, furiously, for weeks, to catch up through all three threads. Like me.

Phew...

BalcombeSt4

Voting Yes. Haven't heard one good argument from the No side about why woman can't have an abortion if they choose to have one, like in pretty much every other developed country. I've heard a lot of acid tripping talk about murdering babies & mad **** like that but no clear coherent argument.

If we are murdering babies might as well make the most of it & start serving McFetus burgers at McDonalds because us evil, devil worshiping Yes voters of course want to eat babies. Hey, were bad & evil it's what we do.

erica74

January wrote: »

He'll still deny that that has anything to do with the 8th. Head firmly in the sand.

The LOVENONE leaflet I received in the door this evening would support that head in the sand opinion as well.

On the back of the leaflet it says (amongst other nonsense)

protect all unborn babies up to birth and maintain excellent care for pregnant women

Inside the leaflet it says (amongst other nonsense)

the 8th amendment does not prevent us giving a pregnant woman whatever treatment she needs

LIES. LIES. LIES. UPON LIES.

Zubeneschamali

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Or trying, furiously, for weeks, to catch up through all three threads. Like me.

I must admit I skip big chunks. The thread is on rinse and repeat anyhow, No have had nothing new to say for weeks apart from the hilarious reactions to Google dumping them.

Sofiztikated

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I must admit I skip big chunks. The thread is on rinse and repeat anyhow, No have had nothing new to say for weeks apart from the hilarious reactions to Google dumping them.

Oh, did you miss the Commie Feminist Zombie plot, and the Take their wombs out for having an abortion?

Good times.

PopePalpatine

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Oh, did you miss the Commie Feminist Zombie plot, and the Take their wombs out for having an abortion?

Good times.

I thought it was a Globalist Islamist plot, did I miss something?

Some very moving personal stories about abortion on RTÉ's Radio 1 Drivetime around this time every day. The one yesterday, where the woman was pregnant with twins and was advised to terminate one of them, had a very surprising ending.

RobertKK

January wrote: »

Which wildlife?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/39/enacted/en/print#sec19

19.—Wild birds and their nests and eggs, other than wild birds of the species mentioned in the Third Schedule to this Act, shall be protected.

20.—Animals which are of a species of fauna in relation to which section 23 of this Act applies shall be protected.

So that is:
Fourth Schedule

Fauna referred to in Section 22 (6) or 23 (8)

Sections 22 and 23 .

PART I

Species of protected wild birds referred to in Section 22 (6)

Buzzards

Eagles

Falcons

Harriers

Hawks

Kites

Osprey

Owls

PART II

Species of protected wild animals referred to in Section 23 (8)

Pine Marten

Red Deer

Seals

Whales

Fifth Schedule

Animals referred to in Section 23

Section 23.

Land Mammals

Badger

Bat species

Deer species

Hare species

Hedgehog

Otter

Pine Marten

Red Squirrel

Marine Mammals

Dolphin species

Porpoise species

Seal species

Whale species

Amphibians

Natterjack Toad

They are all protected plus all birds excluding:
Species of wild birds excluded (subject to Section 22 (2)) from Sections 19 and 22

Sections 19 , 22 , 31 and 35 .

Bullfinch

Carrion Crow

Greater Black-backed Gull

Herring Gull

Hooded (Grey) Crow

House Sparrow

Jackdaw

Jay

Lesser Black-backed Gull

Magpie

Pigeons, including Wood Pigeon, but not including carrier pigeons, racing homing pigeons or doves

Rook

Starling

---

wilfully takes or removes the eggs or nest of a protected wild bird otherwise than under and in accordance with such a licence,

(d) wilfully destroys, injures or mutilates the eggs or nest of a protected wild bird,

(e) wilfully disturbs a protected wild bird on or near a nest containing eggs or unflown young,

shall be guilty of an offence.

---

I hope that answers your question.

erica74

Down Syndrome Ireland have AGAIN asked both sides of the debate to not use children or adults with down syndrome in any campaign materials. Why have they had to ask again?! Do the No side have no respect for people with down syndrome? A lot of children and adults with down syndrome are reading and listening and seeing the No side campaign materials, and there is obviously a very valid reason why Down Syndrome Ireland have asked for this to stop.

kylith

RobertKK wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/39/enacted/en/print#sec19

So, endangered animals.

There are nearly 8 billion humans, Robert. We're not in danger of dying out anytime soon.

In fact; the more humans that are born the more endangered other animals get.

RobertKK

erica74 wrote: »

The LOVENONE leaflet I received in the door this evening would support that head in the sand opinion as well.

On the back of the leaflet it says (amongst other nonsense)



Inside the leaflet it says (amongst other nonsense)



LIES. LIES. LIES. UPON LIES.

But it isn't lies, the Yes campaign and supporters continuously run down our doctors and medics to support the illusion that women are getting a third world service which would have one thinking we are on a par with India...

RobertKK

kylith wrote: »

So, endangered animals.

There are nearly 8 billion humans, Robert. We're not in danger of dying out anytime soon.

In fact; the more humans that are born the more endangered other animals get.

So you are saying your life or that of a pregnant woman, that her unborn is worth less than a natterjack toad?

kylith

RobertKK wrote: »

But it isn't lies, the Yes campaign and supporters continuously run down our doctors and medics to support the illusion that women are getting a third world service which would have one thinking we are on a par with India...

Dude, if one of the doctors on your side campaigned that women should die rather than be allowed terminations there's a limited amount of 'running down' that can be done. He's run himself down there, if anything.

kylith

RobertKK wrote: »

So you are saying your life or that of a pregnant woman, that her unborn is worth less than a natterjack toad?

I'm saying that the world has no shortage of humans, and if someone chooses not to add to that number then the world will not miss them.

And let's be honest here, Robert, you are the one lessening the value of a woman's life.

RobertKK

kylith wrote: »

Dude, if one of the doctors on your side campaigned that women should die rather than be allowed terminations there's a limited amount of 'running down' that can be done. He's run himself down there, if anything.

The impression given is Yes doctors aren't as good in medicine as the No doctors, since the Yes doctors seem to have all the issues.