8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Bredabe

SusieBlue wrote: »

I had to step away from that thread after I posted about my health issues and was told that should I get pregnant I should ‘man up’ and face cancer.

That I shouldn’t seek a termination and should be made carry to term and that if I am not prepared to do that, I shouldn’t be having sex with my boyfriend at all, even with protection.
So basically make a martyr of myself, really, for having the audacity to have a sex life while having a health scare.

Absolutely frightening attitudes on that thread from the very first post.

I dip in and out of that thread, I saw the comments made to you after you wrote about your health. I wish I could say I was shocked. But if at any time in life a person needs to be held and intimate with a loved one most, its when they are in a similar situation to yours.

As a "lapsed Catholic" raised in the "offer it up" form of Catholicism, I found those comments extream even for the times I grew up in. As we say in gurrier land of NCD F*&K That!, you were absolutely right to get away from them. #Repeal!

Sofiztikated

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Something like it in the Torah as well, I'm fairly certain.

And I'd say it's in a few other minor religions as well.

Well given that three of the worlds major religions come from the same geographical area with one being an off shoot of another they would have common ideas.

Sofiztikated

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure on ensoulment, but the Bible repeatedly defines life as breathing.

My take on it was that ensoulment was a guideline, more than an official construct, and there isn't really a strict official stance. The RCC genuinely had a great centre for learning, and had genuinely intelligent people. Even they knew the first 12 odd weeks of pregnancy was iffy, and questioner why would there be a soul in something that had a high chance of not appearing.

Bredabe

Overheal wrote: »

I only know because on FB I’ve had some South Carolinians claim that the Bible tells us life begins at conception. A couple days into that conversation I was presented with no definitive passage that defines the beginning point of life. The closest line was one about blood being that which carries life.

While I was researching Catholic thinking and dogma to use as a springboard for my family, I was told by an experienced pastor, that a decision based on an informed decision from dogma that any way they voted was ok, even if it was yes. Apparently, the man himself has prescribed abortion in one of the books too.

pleas advice

fxotoole wrote: »

Is that law applicable to Ireland?

Also I note your suspiciously low post count. Rereg much?

some legal discussion on the issue from a few years ago
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056988566

Overheal

pleas advice wrote: »

some legal discussion on the issue from a few years ago
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056988566

But there is no fetal homocide law in Ireland so how is this relevant.

splinter65

Some kind of kerfuffle in Kilkenny over rumors of an abortion clinic at the public hospital.
Seriously, do people think there won’t be abortion clinics once abortion is legal?!? That is insane!

Zaph

splinter65 wrote: »

Some kind of kerfuffle in Kilkenny over rumors of an abortion clinic at the public hospital.
Seriously, do people think there won’t be abortion clinics once abortion is legal?!? That is insane!

Fake news according to a professor who works there.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/facebook-claim-of-kilkenny-abortion-clinic-is-fake-news-1.3489115

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

Some kind of kerfuffle in Kilkenny over rumors of an abortion clinic at the public hospital.
Seriously, do people think there won’t be abortion clinics once abortion is legal?!? That is insane!

Well abortions have been happening in Irish hospitals already, any link to the kerfuffle?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

splinter65 wrote: »

Some kind of kerfuffle in Kilkenny over rumors of an abortion clinic at the public hospital.
Seriously, do people think there won’t be abortion clinics once abortion is legal?!? That is insane!

What do you mean by "abortion clinic" exactly?

Strangely enough I've been reading the posts of some people on here who have been /are arguing for retain. On other threads I've found actual complaints from them about their taxes going to pay for children's allowance and the amount of children that some people have, that refugee children should be left to drown etc. it's been said a few times but love both me hole.

pleas advice

presumably, even putting aside the abortions that might happen post 12 weeks, surgical abortions between 10 - 12 weeks won't be carried out in your local GPs surgery?

Overheal wrote: »

But there is no fetal homocide law in Ireland so how is this relevant.

for information / amusement.

Noveight

Interesting to see representatives of the church attempt to hammer out some pro-8th views.

A bastion of youth welfare, indeed.

splinter65

Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »

What do you mean by "abortion clinic" exactly?

https://www.nupas.co.uk/london-abortion-clinics/

This, Marie Stopes etc. Why do you think there won’t be abortion clinics? I can’t see why there wouldn’t be. What’s the problem with them anyway?

splinter65

DubInMeath wrote: »

Well abortions have been happening in Irish hospitals already, any link to the kerfuffle?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/obstetrician-st-lukes-4002986-May2018/%3famp=1

Mrhuth

Anywhere to find current polls?

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/obstetrician-st-lukes-4002986-May2018/%3famp=1

Nothing there saying there will be a clinic, or to support your statement that there will be clinics.

But as a person who supports private enterprise and reducing state assistance going by some of your other posts, why would you have an issue with a private clinic where the person pays for an abortion starting up?

Annasopra

Overheal wrote: »

How is it any more convenient from one side over the other, going forth? Neither side has the outlet now. Or are you alleging that the No side doesn’t have the numbers to orchestrate a field campaign? What’s your beef, really?

I think he is horrified that the No side suddenly cant spend its millions on manipulative online sdvertising.

Annasopra

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

It's disproportionately affecting them because advertising is expensive and they appear to have access to an infinite amount of money, from God knows where, with which they're trying to 'buy' the referendum.

Rome. Literally god knows where.

Annasopra

DubInMeath wrote: »

Really you might want to mention this to the love both crowd out around towns handing out leaflets since their campaign began.

Very high quality, high cost leaflets

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Very high quality, high cost leaflets

Yeah no expense spared.

tigger123

splinter65 wrote: »

https://www.nupas.co.uk/london-abortion-clinics/

This, Marie Stopes etc. Why do you think there won’t be abortion clinics? I can’t see why there wouldn’t be. What’s the problem with them anyway?

It's already been proven to be fake news. Typical of the No side's arguments - lies, lies and more lies.

splinter65

DubInMeath wrote: »

Nothing there saying there will be a clinic, or to support your statement that there will be clinics.

But as a person who supports private enterprise and reducing state assistance going by some of your other posts, why would you have an issue with a private clinic where the person pays for an abortion starting up?

You or some other poster asked for a link to the kerfuffle.

I have no issue with the clinics. The more clinics the better.
Because If Irish people want abortions close to home then abortions they must have. That’s what a democracy and free enterprise is all about.
Thus I’m completely floundered by a doctor in Kilkenny having to “reassure” the public that there will be no abortion clinic attached to the public hospital in Kilkenny.
Where do people imagine the public patients who want abortions for whom the abortion pill at home will not be suitable will be having the abortion?
There will have to be abortion facilities made available for free or for €80 per night to public as per current in patient charges and medical card patients either at the public hospital or at the private clinic subsidized by the state.
Has this been addressed at all in this thread?

splinter65

tigger123 wrote: »

It's already been proven to be fake news. Typical of the No side's arguments - lies, lies and more lies.

The report of the doctor reassuring people that it is “fake news” is not in itself fake news though.
Which begs the question.
Where do you think the people for whom the abortion pill at home is not suitable will have their abortion on demand if they are public/medical card patients?

splinter65

Zaph wrote: »

Fake news according to a professor who works there.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/facebook-claim-of-kilkenny-abortion-clinic-is-fake-news-1.3489115

Yes it was a rumour which a doctor felt had to be squashed.
But the question remains zaph.
If you cannot have the abortion pill and you have a medical card or are otherwise a public patient then where will you have your abortion?
If there is a demand for private abortion clinics and abortion is legal then of course there will be private abortion clinics.
If there are to be no abortion facilities at the public hospital in Kilkenny (this doctor has stressed that there won’t be ) then where will public patients have a surgical abortion in Kilkenny? Waterford?

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

The report of the doctor reassuring people that it is “fake news” is not in itself fake news though.
Which begs the question.
Where do you think the people for whom the abortion pill at home is not suitable will have their abortion on demand if they are public/medical card patients?

Well all maternity services in Ireland are free & catered for by gp & maternity hospitals. So I guess that's where!
There will hardly be business for private clinics, wouldn't pay them I'm sure.

splinter65

bubblypop wrote: »

Well all maternity services in Ireland are free & catered for by gp & maternity hospitals. So I guess that's where!
There will hardly be business for private clinics, wouldn't pay them I'm sure.

You wouldn’t think there was enough business in Ireland for all the private general medical clinics that there is but there is so many that the consultants private practice patients ensure that public patients languish for years on the public list.
Plenty of couple looking for an abortion will not want to have it in public. That’s nailed on.
But I digress . That doctor has said that there will be no abortion clinic attached to Kilkenny hospital. So where will Kilkenny public patients go and why should they have to go anywhere?

pitifulgod

splinter65 wrote: »

You wouldn’t think there was enough business in Ireland for all the private general medical clinics that there is but there is so many that the consultants private practice patients ensure that public patients languish for years on the public list.
Plenty of couple looking for an abortion will not want to have it in public. That’s nailed on.
But I digress . That doctor has said that there will be no abortion clinic attached to Kilkenny hospital. So where will Kilkenny public patients go and why should they have to go anywhere?

From what I gather the intention is to integrate such a services into maternity hospitals. Surgical abortions will also be in limited cases. Which you should already know. Non surgical is literally a matter of a gp. So really you're going on about nothing currently relevant after coming out with a nonsensical propaganda piece.

Hannibal_Smith

splinter65 wrote: »

You wouldn’t think there was enough business in Ireland for all the private general medical clinics that there is but there is so many that the consultants private practice patients ensure that public patients languish for years on the public list.
Plenty of couple looking for an abortion will not want to have it in public. That’s nailed on.
But I digress . That doctor has said that there will be no abortion clinic attached to Kilkenny hospital. So where will Kilkenny public patients go and why should they have to go anywhere?

Where will anyone go? No one knows what the set up will be in any county. Repealing the 8th (or not depending on how you vote) is the first step. Then, if it is repealed, legislation will deal with it.

Ave Sodalis

I am exceptionally disappointed to find my own doctor on a list of doctors in Donegal urging people to vote No. Everyone down to my grandparents use this doctor, it looks like I'm going to have to change.