Watchmen- HBO-(***Spoilers***)

alchemist33

Slydice wrote: »

Did I miss something groundbreaking in episode 4?

Hard to tell since I don't know what's actuslly important or not yet!



Here's soecation based on nothing but the show. Dr Manhattan stopped the Vietnam war. Trieu's daughter has nightmares of what sounds like being a refugee. Maybe Trieu's device is a bug weapon pointed at Mars.

Tipsy McSwagger

I think this is a great show. That scene with the babies been farmed was brilliant. Absolutely love the scenes with Jeremy Irons.

pixelburp

Episode 3 and as one mystery is answered (who was Jeremy Irons' character?), another, larger question is posed (

where is he, and why is he in relative captivity?

). How very Lindelof really, though at the moment the Irons sections and those set in Tulsa feel like they belong in diametrically opposed shows. How they thread them together will be curious.

The fact this show exists, and remains so wedded to its source material, without dumping exposition on the viewer, is a miracle. It's easy to forget how whacky that original finale of Watchmen was (intentionally so, given it was a subversion of comicbooks' own hyperbole), to then simply accept it as fact and spawn a sequel about America 30 years later is ballsy. The easy adaptation would have simply be to remake the original comic.

Niska

Definitely feel the Jeremy Irons sections are at a different time and pace to the rest of the story (similar to patrs of Westworld season 1).

Seeing as each episode has a cake with an incremenal number of candles (there's a cake with four candles - or handles for forks - in the massacre scene), each episode is a year or so for

Veidt

.

(Speculation based on material from the background material on https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia)

Seeing as he disappeared 7 years ago (2012) good chance he'll escape end of episode 7

Unearthly

Absolutely loving this show. Each episode is something new and creative

ERG89

That was the best episode yet. So much storyline development.
The Ozymandias scene was short but looks to connect a few dots. Looking Glass was already the most interesting character on the show for me and now he has a larger role.

The seventh cavalry video reveal and all the build up to that were so well done. You really got to see how he developed as a character.

Great hook at the end of the show setting up next week.

Slydice

5: I don't know what's going on. Seeing Europa and Jupiter was cool though. All I can guess in Manhattan has him locked up there.

That scene at the end as they arrived with the guns did give a hook.

Also cool to see Abby from Ray Donovan

brevity

Yea, I’m loving this. Can’t wait for next week.

Although Jeremy Irons didn’t say “Miss Crookshanks” and that made me sad.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Great episode last night I thought but not sure why

Looking Glass turned on Angela so easily, they seemed close enough so why wouldnt he discuss what he saw with her?

fitz

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Great episode last night I thought but not sure why

Looking Glass turned on Angela so easily, they seemed close enough so why wouldnt he discuss what he saw with her?

Pretty sure

he genuinely believed the senator, and figured this was better than her whole family being murdered. Don't think it was even slightly at odds with them being close...best of a bad set of options imo.

ShaneU

Great series, latest episode was brilliant

kerplun k

brevity wrote: »

Yea, I’m loving this. Can’t wait for next week.

Although Jeremy Irons didn’t say “Miss Crookshanks” and that made me sad.

I can’t be the only one who thinks Miss Crookshanks is the breakout character.

kerplun k

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Great episode last night I thought but not sure why

Looking Glass turned on Angela so easily, they seemed close enough so why wouldnt he discuss what he saw with her?

Think he was saving her

Slydice

You typed out Crookshanks

but I heard

Crookshanks!!!

jface187

I liked this one a lot. It's going to be tough when we go back to the sister knight stuff. I figured the politician was crooked somehow, so nice there was no big reveal. A couple of things did annoy me do. The flashing back to stuff we know. Like flashing back to Glass as a teenager or his hat when someone mentioned it
in the present. For a show that has done very little hand-holding this felt very odd. Also Glass is smart and paranoid. Why would he go into the mall with out back up?. I hope his ok because he would be a big loss to the show.

Mickeroo

Slydice wrote: »

5: I don't know what's going on. Seeing Europa and Jupiter was cool though. All I can guess in Manhattan has him locked up there.

That scene at the end as they arrived with the guns did give a hook.

Also cool to see Abby from Ray Donovan

Yeah I reckon it's Dr Manhattan that has him imprisoned too. I had assumed he was inside a dome on mars before this episode.

I'm convinced Dr Manhattan is one of the characters we've already been introduced to too because they keep dropping conversations about him disguising himself as a human the whole time.

a very cool kid

kerplun k wrote: »

Think he was saving her

This is it - I think they wanted him to kill her

AlmightyCushion

a very cool kid wrote: »

This is it - I think they wanted him to kill her

I can't believe there is a discussion about this. The politician guy explicitly told Looking Glass to tell the FBI Agent that Sister Knight was involved in the police chiefs murder. He refused and then the politician guy said if he didn't they would have to kill her and her entire family.

Penn

Another great episode. Man this is turning into a really great show

dr.kenneth noisewater

Penn wrote:

Another great episode. Man this is turning into a really great show

Yeah great episode

strawdog

Penn wrote: »

Another great episode. Man this is turning into a really great show

Yep I was a bit wary of what this episode would be as I thought they were going to go for a trippy drug-dream-state type of thing, but it ended up a really nice and stylishly shot plot device to give us the back story looping back in to the recent past. Top notch story telling, enjoying this show immensely

brevity

I really enjoyed it. It was kinda like a play. Super interesting and had me hooked all through it.

Mr. CooL ICE

Great episode, but I missed my weekly dose of Jeremy Irons' weirdness

ollkiller

Latest episode was fantastic. Really liking this show.

Melanchthon

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'll give this one more episode but if episode 1 is reflective of the entire series, I won't be sticking with this.

As someone who's read the novel and watched the film adaption, I was still lost for most of it. It was deliberately obtuse and confusing without making me feel any real desire to unravel it.

It felt far too pleased with itself despite not having earned any right to be.

Stuff like this should be right up my alley so I will give it another episode but my overriding feeling was annoyance at the end of the first episode.

Wondering the same myself, have seen up to episode 3 and not loving it so far.

Its got the watchmen name and tone so on but it lacks the core.

The protagonists of watchmen were either b@stards, psychotic, weak and flawed or willing to kill millions for their goal.
The main focus so far seems to be on sister night who as of e3 is none of those things.

This wouldn't be a killer issue if it didn't seem to be also missing the guts too, the comic showed amoral cynicism achieving a worthy goal, actively killing millions of innocents to save billions. Leaves the reader with the question is the unjustifiable actually justified.

The show seems to be hinting that the 7th cavalry know some of the truth but its not like its going to have their goal of white supremacy as a worthy one.
It seems also to going with the cops restricting freedom and wearing masks etc to stomp down on fascists/racists. Problem with this is that for a lot of the millennial style audiences thats probably not that controversial an idea at least to the level portrayed in the show.

Similarly the most sympatheticly portrayed character (sister night) would appear to be on board with the end goal, this is basically the opposite of the original watchmen dynamic where the most sympathetic (of an unrelatable bunch) are trying to prevent the character who is portrayed as monstrous achieving his goal.

Maybe I am reading it wrong and the show will shake things up but at the main thinking of stopping watching it as I can't imagine a LOST writer having the balls to have the cynicism required for the show and not just go for cliche.

The (suicide) bomb scene already being a prime example of a pulled punch in a ridiculous manner

kerplun k

Great episode. I Noticed some parallels with The Leftovers. Lindelof certainly has a style. The Walk and talk style shooting with the jazz music cutting in at different beats. It was all very Leftoversey,

brevity

Melanchthon wrote: »

Wondering the same myself, have seen up to episode 3 and not loving it so far.

Its got the watchmen name and tone so on but it lacks the core.

The protagonists of watchmen were either b@stards, psychotic, weak and flawed or willing to kill millions for their goal.
The main focus so far seems to be on sister night who as of e3 is none of those things.

This wouldn't be a killer issue if it didn't seem to be also missing the guts too, the comic showed amoral cynicism achieving a worthy goal, actively killing millions of innocents to save billions. Leaves the reader with the question is the unjustifiable actually justified.

The show seems to be hinting that the 7th cavalry know some of the truth but its not like its going to have their goal of white supremacy as a worthy one.
It seems also to going with the cops restricting freedom and wearing masks etc to stomp down on fascists/racists. Problem with this is that for a lot of the millennial style audiences thats probably not that controversial an idea at least to the level portrayed in the show.

Similarly the most sympatheticly portrayed character (sister night) would appear to be on board with the end goal, this is basically the opposite of the original watchmen dynamic where the most sympathetic (of an unrelatable bunch) are trying to prevent the character who is portrayed as monstrous achieving his goal.

Maybe I am reading it wrong and the show will shake things up but at the main thinking of stopping watching it as I can't imagine a LOST writer having the balls to have the cynicism required for the show and not just go for cliche.

The (suicide) bomb scene already being a prime example of a pulled punch in a ridiculous manner

A lot is fleshed out later on. I’d recommend to keep going.

Lindelof has loads of other writers with him so I wouldn’t let the Lost thing be an issue.

Slydice

6: Early on it just felt like it was gonna be a bit of a snooze down memory lane but that episode worked up really well. Good complex story. I get the feeling there's gonna be an element of a mistake in killing the cop for keepin his grandpas robes.

pixelburp

Episode 5 and fair play to this show for holding out on the Giant Squid flashback til now. Takes some confidence, throwing in too the punctuation that Veidt was behind it all (including being the architect behind Robert Redfords rise to power!), while linking it with the Looking Glass story was also a smart move, itself a really strong piece. Really gave us a good sense of what the Squid would have done to the public consciousness.

Anyone know how this has been doing, ratings wise? Too lazy to check but certainly seems to have critical appeal anyway.

Slydice

Highly rated by critics but seems to be tanking with Audiences..
RT: 97%-44%
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/watchmen

viewership (millions of people): .799 - .765 - .648 - .707 - .752 - .620
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(TV_series)

so that's putting it on notice.. if they want more seasons.

not the first show I've noticed do well with critics but not the audience which pays the bills

kerplun k

That’s not good. Squid monsters don’t come cheap. Really hope this gets at least one more season.

I’m noticing a trend with my favourite shows being huge misfires with audiences. The OA, Legion, Succession and this.

pixelburp

I'd debate "audience" score here, as looking at the comments on the aggregators, it backs up something I'd read in passing: that there are delicate flowers going crazy, mistaking KKK storylines and the dystopian liberal America setting as "propaganda". Decrying Watchmen being turned "political" immediately demonstrates that these commenters missed the point of the original completely, presumably just thinking Rorscharch was "cool".

Shame about the audience scores though: do we know if these are even good or bad by HBO standards?

Raoul

Is this enjoyable for someone that has no idea what the watchmen is?

Agent Coulson

Season 1 of GoT's averaged 2.5m viewers per episode in the US and grew each season till it hit nearly 12m an episode for the final season.


Westworld in the US averaged 1.8m viewers per episode for season 1 and 1.5m viewers per episode for season 2.


So for a big budget show I would say HBO will be disappointed with those viewer numbers.


True Detective season 3 averaged 1.2m per episode.

Unearthly

I think nowadays the live ratings especially for HBO as they don't have advertisements is not that important compared to the total on demand viewings over the 7 days.

Would be interested to see them compared to other shows

pixelburp

Raoul wrote: »

Is this enjoyable for someone that has no idea what the watchmen is?

It's a sequel to a story from a famously subversive comic; TBH I can't say how much you'll get from this if you've absolutely zero idea about the original comic. It doesn't hold your hand and expects the viewer to know events or histories. You're expected to roll with it, although info does come out quite piecemeal.

Unearthly wrote: »

I think nowadays the live ratings especially for HBO as they don't have advertisements is not that important compared to the total on demand viewings over the 7 days.

Would be interested to see them compared to other shows

Indeed; when you strip out or ignore the ludicrous "liberal propaganda" hyperbole, the audience reviews tend towards praise, so it could be a sleeper hit if the on-demand ratings bolster the stats. Though as I said, being a sequel to a cult comicbook is an immediately alienating aspect, so you'd presume HBO aren't expecting a smash hit, right? It's limiting by design.

I'd hate for this to be a 1 hit wonder cos it's a really smart show, treats its audience like adults and has a wicked sense of humour when it wants.

youcancallmeal

Raoul wrote: »

Is this enjoyable for someone that has no idea what the watchmen is?

Watching the 2009 movie is enough of a primer in my opinion. This tv show is set about about 30ish years after the movies main events. The movie is pretty close to the comics with the exception of the ending

In the comics the Veidt teleports a qiant squid into New York in 1985 which is what is referenced in the tv show. In the movie he detonates energy reactors in the world's major cities.

Cartman78

Raoul wrote: »

Is this enjoyable for someone that has no idea what the watchmen is?

I was kinda in this boat tbh but listening to a couple of podcasts which has helped a lot.

Have a pattern now where I watch the show initially, then listen to a couple of podcasts to get some context/background on the Watchmen universe/lore, and then watch the episode again.

It's a brilliant show imho - haven't seen anything like it really since the Leftovers finished

brevity

Is The Leftovers good?

fitz

brevity wrote: »

Is The Leftovers good?

It's exceptional.
Emotionally devastating, with some absolutely standout performances.

jface187

I know it was said here the American Hero Story is a take on Zack's Synder Watchmen, but this week I got more of a feeling of it being a piss-take on American Horror Story. I even think the hooded justice actor was in AHS.

johnny_ultimate

I’ve been waiting for the moment when I could say ‘told you so - making a sequel to Watchmen was a mistake’. This bastard creative team has denied me that opportunity for seven weeks running now :pac:

After last week’s superb piece of formal experimentation, this week’s episode was all about momentum - answers revealed, begetting more questions. It takes a lot of effort to achieve that balance, but Lindelof and co have done it consistently throughout this season. It’d also be easy to get lost in all the weird **** that’s revealed from episode to episode, but they’ve kept it grounded in clear characters while also probing the questions of racial politics and identity that have been there from episode one.

Also great how they’ve so carefully held back the full-on ‘sequel’ material over the seven hours so far. It’d be easy to almost describe the early episodes as standalone with some background detail and thematic inspiration from the original. But they’ve done a good job introducing more overt details - absolutely fascinated to see where they’re going after that

Dr Manhattan

reveal.

ERG89

I've always waited to watch it the next night or just stream it elsewhere but the ads that Sky Atlantic show on the live broadcast are......interesting.
The last few minutes of this weeks show were something else. :eek:
I'm back to not getting (borderline not caring about) the Ozymandias story again.

kerplun k

:eek:

ShaneU

This show gets crazier every week

Penn

So so good. Damn, that ending...

Also calling it now,

Lady Trieu is Ozymandias' daughter. She mentioned how her father would be here soon, but also in her speech she said something about how people could look upon her works but not despair, which is similar to the wording from the poem the name Ozymandias comes from. Plus the statues of him she has and all that. Unless it's misdirection which is entirely possible considering the twists this show has already taken

brevity

An elephant never forgets?

Holy **** this show is epic.

Penn

brevity wrote: »

An elephant never forgets?

I was thinking there'd be some real-life scientific explanation that elephants neural networks healing is the greatest of all animals or some such. But no, you're probably right. An elephant never forgets

RasTa

Watched 6 and 7 back to back last night. Top notch stuff, haven't seen anything this good on TV in awhile and I hated the movie.

castletownman

Just caught up with episode 6 now on my day off, and it's undoubtedly one the greatest pieces of television I have ever watched. The soundtrack was amazing, particularly the use of that song "my shadow, my echo and me" and the various drum solos.

Outstanding tv.