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Luas Finglas

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  • Cheers, would you be fairly confident of it actually happening and not having the rug pulled from under it, like the metro?





  • Sadly, no. The Draft GDA Transport Strategy will be published in a week which will give an idea of the updated timeline after taking the new NDP into account. It's likely that any Luas Finglas updates won't happen before that. They don't seem to be in a rush because they've been talking about it since June.





  • I should probably start taking bets that a new study on extending luas finglas to the airport is going to be undertaken as part of a metrolink 'spending review'. The narrative writes its self, throw in a covid blurb and boom you're all set for a metrolink postponement/cancellation.


    The tabloids will say wELl luAs tO dE aIrPorT is beTteR dAn nuthIn



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  • Well, if Luas gets to Finglas, it should get across the M50 for a P&R so making it a reasonable option for commuters coming down the N2, and thereabouts. The Luas would then be only, what, 5 km across green fields. Perhaps it could be justified in a business case with a few wacky assumptions, but many other options would trump it, without wacky assumptions, both in feasibility and in utility.

    But it would not be enough to replace the Metrolink. No-one would propose a cycle lane would be adequate to replace a motorway, and Luas is no Metrolink - however you cut it. Just the journey time alone shows that Luas is totally inadequate to carry even a tiny number of the likely demand from air travellers, and they are only part of the intended Metrolink passenger demand.

    I am continually disappointed in our Minister for Transport that he is not shouting from the rooftops to get Metrolink moved up the agenda, and moved up the urgent list. It is the greenest, and Greenest, project in the state for a generation. Why does he not get the various activities to get it built into action now. If necessary, get it legislated for so it can bypass any road blocks.

    He should get it started now.





  • That’s not how government works in Ireland Sam.

    Ministers bring papers/proposals to cabinet meetings for discussion and approval - they don’t go shouting from the rooftops outside cabinet. That’s the set up we have.

    There is a process to be followed with regards to investment projects and that is being followed for Metrolink. Any delays so far would seem to be down to the NTA.





  • I know how Gov works* - they have been talking about the equivalent of the Dart extension since the 1970s - that is 50 years ago, and all we got was an existing line electrified, and report after report, and proposal after proposal - but nothing to actually carry passengers. For a century, the Phoenix Park Tunnel could not carry passenger traffic, but suddenly it could.

    They had approval for Metro North a decade ago and binned it. Metrolink was supposed to open in 2027, but now it is being spoken about by our Minister for Transport as likely to be 2030 to 2034 - even that is not a certain time line.

    There is nothing stopping him from taking whatever action needed to get the Metrolink moved up the agenda - he just is not doing it. The process is under political control (because everything is), and so is the NTA.

    *or doesn't.





  • The current MoT isn’t in a ML constituency.

    That’s ultimately it.





  • Well, he is. Metroink goes through the western side of Dublin Bay South. It is so important for the constituency that he sided with the NYMBIES about Dunville Avenue. Not a good look for a Green Party TD looking to foster public transport.



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  • Exactly how does he move it up the pecking order?

    There is a specific statutory process to be followed for major capital investment projects and the project is following that.

    The issue that I have is that every date that the NTA have quoted, post-the redesign to become Swords-Charlemont has been missed for whatever reason.

    The real question is why has that happened. The NTA need to explain that, as that has more to do with their processes than with the Minister.

    From recent comments by the Minister, the NTA still have not submitted the business case to the Department for approval, which is the key to set the planning application in train.





  • Dunville Avenue didn’t delay the project though.

    The sewer along the Grand Canal that the NTA inexplicably missed was the reason for that.

    With respect Sam, you’re fixating on the wrong person. I think you should be focussing on the NTA and asking why it’s taking them so long.





  • Whether Dunvile delayed he project is irrelevant - what I am getting at is that ER, as a Green Party TD, opposed the Metrolink, and suggested it be diverted to Tallaght or maybe the Dublin Mountains because some of his constituents did not want the access road the their favourite emporium changed. If he was listened to, it would have delayed the project and possibly have it terminate at SSG. It was always intended that the GL would be upgraded to metro, and the future housing developments out that direction makes that upgrade more pressing.

    As Minister he should be pressing for an earlier finish date - not approving of a decade or more before it is likely to open. Just from a cost point of view, the quicker the better. It is a Green project - and the greenest one on the table at the moment. I cannot understand why he is not pushing it.





  • Maybe he could talk about it more instead of gas-bagging about High speed trains from tuam to donegal at the party conference





  • You keep saying this. Pushing whom? Could you elaborate on what you mean? If he's pressuring the NTA and TII, you wouldn't know about it. He's hardly going to call them out in the media. They're his agencies. The Mail on Sunday reported that he's lobbying cabinet colleagues to commit to the project and that he seems to be the only person in cabinet doing it.

    Since the delays don't seem to be related to funding (we can talk about resourcing from 2017 onwards) and seem to be delays in design and construction, who exactly should he be "pushing"? The project management has gone disastrously wrong.

    For the last month, I've been trying to figure out where the issue is an and how to speed things up. I wish it was as simple as Ryan pushing for it or having someone like a minister not releasing funds to blame.





  • Sam, I want to see it happen as fast you do but let’s be honest, the NTA’s handling and communication of the original plans were, like that of many of their projects, poor and flawed to say the least. Most of the delays stem from their own issues rather than the DoT.

    You fixate on Dunville Avenue, but I seem to recall Ryan’s questioning of alternatives was driven more by a different issue.

    I can recall posting here that after one of the first consultation meetings that it was apparent to me that significant sections of the Green Line would have to have extended closures during the construction, only for several posters to tell me that I was talking through my behind.

    Incredibly it took several more consultations before the fact the line would be closed for extended periods was explained in detail by the NTA, but, I will add, with no real explanation of how all those thousands of passengers would be dealt with on the roads of South Dublin.

    That was what I recall the main reason behind ER’s questioning of the proposed route. Few if any of the public or politicians had even remotely realised that sections of the Green Line would have to be closed for months, some more than others.

    The rights of way need to be dealt with too - they are issues of importance to communities along the line which deserve attention, as much as Metrolink being in place is important to others further out.

    In that regard I tend not to listen to the more extreme loud voices who deal in hyperbole, such as what you seem to focus on, which are the ones sadly that get the news coverage, and which you fixate on, but rather listened to some of the more reasoned explanations of issues that people have that I heard at a couple of public meetings.

    Like everything transport related, sadly the Irish media tend to focus on extreme stories that aren’t the real issues, and the real issues get ignored.

    The unexpected sewer rendered the Dunville Avenue issue as irrelevant.

    The northern part of Metrolink needs to happen but again, I have to ask, what’s happening within the NTA? Why haven’t they made a single one of their own deadlines? That’s the question to be asked.





  • It is certainly curious that discussion of Dunville Avenue was stopped recently by a moderator, on the 'Metrolink south of Charlemont' thread, where one would think it is very relevant, with this comment:

    Can we leave Dunville Ave to its fate. It is dragging this thread down a rabbit hole.

    Yet the very same moderator brings up the issue of Dunville Avenue on this 'LUAS Finglas' thread, a discussion of the proposed LUAS line to Finglas, where the relevance of Dunville Avenue would seem to be, at best, peripheral.

    I am puzzled.





  • ER undoubtedly caused damage to the metrolink project as a TD but his utterly shameless support of a redirect of the line through his constituency that would have caused a delay of years, if not decades.

    Don't really there is much to point at now though. I don't think he is responsible for the delays and the projects continues to tick along albeit a bit slower than we'd like.





  • Just read and confirmed Luas Finglas is postponed from 2028 completion to post 2031 completion. Very shoddy the project could have been shovel ready by 2025, likely construction now in 2028. This government postponing everything because they using covid not to spend the money. Will be voting against this government in the 2025 election.





  • It looks like the plan is that in 2025 there will be simultaneous construction on metrolink, DART+, bus connects corridors and some cycling schemes. The state is running the risk of causing rapid inflation of construction costs by running so many massive simultaneous projects while we also have to deliver 50,000 housing units annually. Adding another project at the same time probably isn't sustainable and thats before you consider the public expenditure element



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  • There was never a 2028 completion date given for Luas Finglas.



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