City just crazy

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

Bumble, cycling suits some people, walking suits others and public transport others still.

..., a multi pronged approach is needed to cater for Galway's growth over the next few decades.

Cars will be part of that but its necessary that the volume of cars has to be reduced. They are simply the least efficient way of getting from a to b if everyone is using that method of transport.

It's a simple matter of trying to move more people through a finite amount of space. If you are proposing that we keep going and change nothing then the city will grind to a halt.

Where on earth do you get the idea that I'm proposing no change?

Public transport upgrades. School buses. Demand-reduction initiatives. Park and ride. All things I would do before major cycle infrastructure. Except for opening up a cycle-route between Parkmore and Ballybrit via the racecourse. That's a no-brainer, and can be done with little or no conflict between cyclists and pedestrians.

Cycling suits some. Motorcycles suit a few (and if there's ever a mode that isn't catered for - this is it. No allocated parking in the city at all, as far as I cansee). Skateboards suit a few. Horses suit a few. Buses, especially with well-designed Park and Ride move a lot of people at once, and don't tie up prime land in vehicle parking.

Thargor wrote: »

How do you spend so many hours in every traffic and transport thread on Boards and still be so completely ignorant of basic statistics and reality like that?

I spend far more time in traffic as a bus user and a pedestrian than I do on boards. Statistics which look at deaths and major injuries only tell part of the story. Moderate to minor injuries need to be included to make statistics useful.

And I understand proportions. In a week, I interact with probably 10+ times more cars than bicycles. Yet i have far more near-miss incidents with bicycles than I do with cars. I know what causes me more stress and worry.

Roger Yummy Flashlight wrote: »

This is very normal, you should always be watching for other traffic. You are disembarking onto a cycle lane or right onto a footpath?

I get off the bus onto a footpath. Unfortunately more than a few cyclists don't realise how stupid it is to ride on the footpath in general, and to undertake bus in particular. Bohermore is one of the worse locations for it.

Roger Yummy Flashlight wrote: »

And what bicycles are getting engines? What exactly are you talking about? You're completely off the ball, you just haven't a clue what you're talking about.

It's been an issue since 2002, according to this: http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/27/gardai-warn-bikes-with-petrol-engines-attached-are-low-powered-motorcycles/

We're now seeing even skateboards with very small motors attached. I'm sure there are bicycles with the same. People I know have discussed using the Bike-to-work scheme to buy electric bicycles.

xckjoo wrote: »

Speed limits in those areas?

I don't know, I'm not driving a car often enough to be sure. But I suspect it's 80km/h in Rosshill anyway.

Thargor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Statistics which look at deaths and major injuries only tell part of the story. Moderate to minor injuries need to be included to make statistics useful

Ah right so you're saying if "moderate to minor" injuries were included in road traffic statistics as well as just death and serious injuries we'd get the true picture? What a load of complete and utter crap. Stop lying.

"to make statistics useful"

John_Rambo

Bumble, I’m quiet sure your idea of a near miss is someone cycling close to you. And I’m quiet sure with all these perceived near misses you’ve actually never been hit by a cyclist unless you’re (at this stage, which will be unbelievable) going tell us you’ve been hit and injured by a cyclist.

I see this carry on a good bit as a pedestrian, a cyclist slowly goes through a red light, myself and most pedestrians ignore and keep walking, but the odd one reacts as if there’s been a near death experience.

Drama. Panto stuff.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Bumble, cycling suits some people, walking suits others and public transport others still.

..., a multi pronged approach is needed to cater for Galway's growth over the next few decades.

Cars will be part of that but its necessary that the volume of cars has to be reduced. They are simply the least efficient way of getting from a to b if everyone is using that method of transport.

It's a simple matter of trying to move more people through a finite amount of space. If you are proposing that we keep going and change nothing then the city will grind to a halt.

Where on earth do you get the idea that I'm proposing no change?

Public transport upgrades. School buses. Demand-reduction initiatives. Park and ride. All things I would do before major cycle infrastructure. Except for opening up a cycle-route between Parkmore and Ballybrit via the racecourse. That's a no-brainer, and can be done with little or no conflict between cyclists and pedestrians.

Cycling suits some. Motorcycles suit a few (and if there's ever a mode that isn't catered for - this is it. No allocated parking in the city at all, as far as I cansee). Skateboards suit a few. Horses suit a few. Buses, especially with well-designed Park and Ride move a lot of people at once, and don't tie up prime land in vehicle parking.

Thargor wrote: »

How do you spend so many hours in every traffic and transport thread on Boards and still be so completely ignorant of basic statistics and reality like that?

I spend far more time in traffic as a bus user and a pedestrian than I do on boards. Statistics which look at deaths and major injuries only tell part of the story. Moderate to minor injuries need to be included to make statistics useful.

And I understand proportions. In a week, I interact with probably 10+ times more cars than bicycles. Yet i have far more near-miss incidents with bicycles than I do with cars. I know what causes me more stress and worry.

Roger Yummy Flashlight wrote: »

This is very normal, you should always be watching for other traffic. You are disembarking onto a cycle lane or right onto a footpath?

I get off the bus onto a footpath. Unfortunately more than a few cyclists don't realise how stupid it is to ride on the footpath in general, and to undertake bus in particular. Bohermore is one of the worse locations for it.

Roger Yummy Flashlight wrote: »

And what bicycles are getting engines? What exactly are you talking about? You're completely off the ball, you just haven't a clue what you're talking about.

It's been an issue since 2002, according to this: http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/27/gardai-warn-bikes-with-petrol-engines-attached-are-low-powered-motorcycles/

We're now seeing even skateboards with very small motors attached. I'm sure there are bicycles with the same. People I know have discussed using the Bike-to-work scheme to buy electric bicycles.

xckjoo wrote: »

Speed limits in those areas?

I don't know, I'm not driving a car often enough to be sure. But I suspect it's 80km/h in Rosshill anyway.

I'm just back from Copenhagen and I have to disagree with many things you say.

Cycles suits many not some. And Copenhagen as well as other cities with proper cycling infrastructure are the proof.

Walking is less suitable, it's too slow and Galway would have to build apartments as well as office spaces in the city centre, which I would welcome, but this is not going to happen due to constant objections from the public and incompetence as well as vested interests of the council folks.

Jaysus, how many bicycles with "attached engines" have you seen? And how many normal bicycles have you seen? What's the ratio? I've never seen any bicycle-made-a-moped. Why even mentioning something so bizarre, an anomaly, in a serious discussion about Galway traffic. Complete exaggeration and waste of time.

What I can say though that e-bikes market is booming and they are getting more and more common, which actually is positive and supports development of cycling as a method of transport.

We need to get real and discuss evidence based policies not some nonsense based on feelings and impressions.

beardybrewer

McGiver wrote: »

We need to get real and discuss evidence based policies not some nonsense based on feelings and impressions.

Wait, if that's true then why are we discussing it here? Your logic paradox has failed because we have no minds to be blown.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Public transport upgrades. School buses. Demand-reduction initiatives. Park and ride. All things I would do before major cycle infrastructure.

What's your reasoning here? The most beneficial and cheapest upgrade is to implement a proper cycling infrastructure. It would service a lot more people that buses/trains.

Cycling suits some. Motorcycles suit a few (and if there's ever a mode that isn't catered for - this is it. No allocated parking in the city at all, as far as I cansee). Skateboards suit a few. Horses suit a few. Buses, especially with well-designed Park and Ride move a lot of people at once, and don't tie up prime land in vehicle parking.

What's the part in bold based on? If you paved the entire country and made enough room for every car in Ireland, everybody would drive. The more roads we build/widen, the more cars we will have and that's a very bad route to go down. It's a shítty viewpoint to have (being car centric).

Horses suit nobody. It's a leisure activity, not a means to commute. There's far bigger cities than Galway (with similar rainfall) which have embraced cycling and it's working wonders. The only real difference between the locations is the mentality. In Ireland, we are very very selfish, everybody wants to drive which is ridiculous. Ban all privately owned vehicles, bar exceptions, from each of our cities and watch how the infrastructure booms.

I spend far more time in traffic as a bus user and a pedestrian than I do on boards. Statistics which look at deaths and major injuries only tell part of the story. Moderate to minor injuries need to be included to make statistics useful.

Please tell me how a minor injury is far more dangerous than dying? Your logic here is completely flawed.

And I understand proportions. In a week, I interact with probably 10+ times more cars than bicycles. Yet i have far more near-miss incidents with bicycles than I do with cars. I know what causes me more stress and worry.

Again, chalk that down to your irrational fear. Your false perception is not fact.

I get off the bus onto a footpath. Unfortunately more than a few cyclists don't realise how stupid it is to ride on the footpath in general, and to undertake bus in particular. Bohermore is one of the worse locations for it.

Ever report them? Also, you may not realize it, but you are arguing my point for me. Introduce proper infrastructure and eradicate these issues. Here's some lovely cycle lanes in Galway, the lack of planning is the reason the lanes are not used, and rightly so. I still don't condone cycling on the footpath, but if it's the safest alternative, then so be it.

It's been an issue since 2002, according to this: http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/27/gardai-warn-bikes-with-petrol-engines-attached-are-low-powered-motorcycles/

We're now seeing even skateboards with very small motors attached. I'm sure there are bicycles with the same. People I know have discussed using the Bike-to-work scheme to buy electric bicycles.

I am going to take a wild guess here and say that you never seen a bike or skateboard with an engine, they may exist, but that doesn't mean jack shít.

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Cycling suits some.

Just to put some context on the 'some', in Dublin, more people cycling into the city than use DART and Luas combined. That's a fair old 'some'.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I spend far more time in traffic as a bus user and a pedestrian than I do on boards. Statistics which look at deaths and major injuries only tell part of the story. Moderate to minor injuries need to be included to make statistics useful.

And I understand proportions. In a week, I interact with probably 10+ times more cars than bicycles. Yet i have far more near-miss incidents with bicycles than I do with cars. I know what causes me more stress and worry.

Yes, that's right, deaths and major injuries only tell part of the story - the important part, the most significant scary part, the most easily addressable part too - but seem people will always want to look elsewhere.

If you do have stats on the moderate/minor injuries, please do get them out there. I'd guess that the extent of moderate/minor injuries caused by 1-5 tonne cars could well outweigh the moderate/minor injuries caused by 10-15kg bikes. I know what causes me more stress and worry.

McGiver

beardybrewer wrote: »

McGiver wrote: »

We need to get real and discuss evidence based policies not some nonsense based on feelings and impressions.

Wait, if that's true then why are we discussing it here? Your logic paradox has failed because we have no minds to be blown.

Not really, no. My comment was more directed to Mrs O'B's last post. And I don't see any paradox failing

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just to put some context on the 'some', in Dublin, more people cycling into the city than use DART and Luas combined. That's a fair old 'some'.

Can I ask you for some evidence for this "fact"?
As someone who lived in Dublin for 10 years, I find it very hard to believe, but open to being wrong.

These aren't facts, just observations, but between 6:30am and 10am each morning, nearly every LUAS is full to capacity

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just to put some context on the 'some', in Dublin, more people cycling into the city than use DART and Luas combined. That's a fair old 'some'.

Can I ask you for some evidence for this "fact"?
As someone who lived in Dublin for 10 years, I find it very hard to believe, but open to being wrong.

These aren't facts, just observations, but between 6:30am and 10am each morning, nearly every LUAS is full to capacity

Actually, having checked it out, I didn't give the full story here. When I went back and checked it out, I found that the numbers cycling exceeds the combined numbers of Luas, DART AND suburban rail. The source is the census data.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/07/30/more-residents-commute-by-bicycle-than-by-luas-and-dart-in-dublin-city-and-suburbs/

McTigs

Deleted User wrote: »

Can I ask you for some evidence for this "fact"?
As someone who lived in Dublin for 10 years, I find it very hard to believe, but open to being wrong.

These aren't facts, just observations, but between 6:30am and 10am each morning, nearly every LUAS is full to capacity

95,000 cyclists a day
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/number-of-daily-dublin-cyclists-doubles-to-more-than-95-000-1.3230465
80,000 LUAS journeys so 40,000 individuals making a to and from journey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luas
16m Luas Journeys so 30,770 individuals making a to and from journey on 260 working days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Area_Rapid_Transit

Cylists = 95k per day, Train Passengers = 71k
Cycling > Trains and way cheaper to provide infrastructure

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

These aren't facts, just observations, but between 6:30am and 10am each morning, nearly every LUAS is full to capacity

People are using alternatives becaise the trains are full - or don't go where the people want to go.

Dublin Bus carry about three times more passengers than Irish Rail.

xckjoo

McTigs wrote: »

95,000 cyclists a day
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/number-of-daily-dublin-cyclists-doubles-to-more-than-95-000-1.3230465
80,000 LUAS journeys so 40,000 individuals making a to and from journey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luas
16m Luas Journeys so 30,770 individuals making a to and from journey on 260 working days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Area_Rapid_Transit

Cylists = 95k per day, Train Passengers = 71k
Cycling > Trains and way cheaper to provide infrastructure

That's mad.

zell12

xckjoo wrote: »

That's mad.

People sitting in their metal boxes in long car traffic love-ins is mad.

McTigs

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People are using alternatives becaise the trains are full - or don't go where the people want to go.

people are not cycling because the trains are full or not going where they want to go, they are cycling because it's an efficient, cheap and enjoyable way to commute. Stop talking like it's a last resort.

If Dublin had proper cycling infrastructure the number of cyclists would double dwarfing the rail options.

John_Rambo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People are using alternatives becaise the trains are full - or don't go where the people want to go

Who told you that? Majority of cycle commuters I know (myself included) live on the DART line with excellent bus transport to and from work but cycle instead.

McTigs

John_Rambo wrote: »

Who told you that? Majority of cycle commuters I know (myself included) live on the DART line with excellent bus transport to and from work but cycle instead.

I wonder how many people are on horseback and motorised skateboards?

Rechuchote

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm a 50-somehing who's had some surgery (cycling wasn't allowed for three months after that), and is waiting form more (and cycling before I get the knee injury fixed would not be a good idea indeed).
Cycling has a place as a mode of transport for some.

Absolutely right. In the Netherlands, people registered as disabled can buy cheap tiny one-person cars that can only go the speed of a bicycle, and can use them in bicycle lanes.

John_Rambo

McTigs wrote: »

I wonder how many people are on horseback and motorised skateboards?

I’ve used a longboard cruiser before and I’ve come across electric skateboards, electric scooters and a one-wheel. All in harmony with pedestrians and the cyclists it seems.

No horses.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

These aren't facts, just observations, but between 6:30am and 10am each morning, nearly every LUAS is full to capacity

People are using alternatives becaise the trains are full - or don't go where the people want to go.

Dublin Bus carry about three times more passengers than Irish Rail.

Why the obsession with diesel carcinogenic producing machines called "buses"? They come at a huge price.

Care to provide data supporting your claim?

McGiver

McTigs wrote: »

John_Rambo wrote: »

Who told you that? Majority of cycle commuters I know (myself included) live on the DART line with excellent bus transport to and from work but cycle instead.

I wonder how many people are on horseback and motorised skateboards?

And how many dangerous bicycle-made-a-mopeds are on the road!

McGiver

McTigs wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People are using alternatives becaise the trains are full - or don't go where the people want to go.

people are not cycling because the trains are full or not going where they want to go, they are cycling because it's an efficient, cheap and enjoyable way to commute. Stop talking like it's a last resort.

If Dublin had proper cycling infrastructure the number of cyclists would double dwarfing the rail options.

Yes, and I can give an example from Copenhagen again. It's actually the size of Dublin and its public transport network is way superior - buses cover everything and are fast and on time (no cash of course and two doors), two lines of metro covering the city centre, airport and adjacent districts, several suburban train lines covering good chunk of the city and suburbs. Despite that good state of public transport, of all commutes (to/from work) 45% happen by bicycle, 27% by public transport, 23% by car and only 5% walking (as of 2015).

And to add an anecdotal evidence - I went by bus and was checking a cyclist going on the same route as the bus, the cyclist actually took the same time to reach the destination as me in the bus (couple of kms).

McGiver

McTigs wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People are using alternatives becaise the trains are full - or don't go where the people want to go.

people are not cycling because the trains are full or not going where they want to go, they are cycling because it's an efficient, cheap and enjoyable way to commute. Stop talking like it's a last resort.

If Dublin had proper cycling infrastructure the number of cyclists would double dwarfing the rail options.

Yes, and I can give an example from Copenhagen again. It's actually the size of Dublin and its public transport network is way superior - buses cover everything and are fast and on time (no cash of course and two doors), two lines of metro covering the city centre, airport and adjacent districts, several suburban train lines covering good chunk of the city and suburbs. Despite that good state of public transport, of all commutes (to/from work) 45% happen by bicycle, 27% by public transport, 23% by car and only 5% walking (as of 2015).

And to add an anecdotal evidence - I went by bus and was checking a cyclist going on the same route as the bus, the cyclist actually took the same time to reach the destination as me in the bus (couple of kms).

80‰ of businesses say traffic congestion is having a negative impact on their business

https://galwaybayfm.ie/80-per-cent-of-galway-businesses-say-traffic-congestion-has-negative-effect-on-business/

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

80‰ of businesses say traffic congestion is having a negative impact on their business

https://galwaybayfm.ie/80-per-cent-of-galway-businesses-say-traffic-congestion-has-negative-effect-on-business/

I'm sure they're right but anecdotal opinions from businessmen aren't always the best. Most of them I've talked to also think that charging for parking (or any effort to reduce private car use in the city) is going to make the place a ghost town.

gordongekko

Deleted User wrote: »

80‰ of businesses say traffic congestion is having a negative impact on their business

https://galwaybayfm.ie/80-per-cent-of-galway-businesses-say-traffic-congestion-has-negative-effect-on-business/

were the other 20% filling stations?

zell12

All traffic?
Pedestrian congestion
Cyclist congestion
Bus congestion
Train congestion
Boat congestion

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm sure they're right but anecdotal opinions from businessmen aren't always the best. Most of them I've talked to also think that charging for parking (or any effort to reduce private car use in the city) is going to make the place a ghost town.

Any business worth its salt performs analysis of previous years and projects anticipated future growth so I'm not sure this would classify as anecdotal

Don't forget, when Shop Street, Grafton Street and others were proposed as pedestrian only there was talks of doom and gloom, yet ask any business on those streets if they would prefer to go back to the way it was and there wouldn't be a single taker to that offer.

Simply put, the congestion discourages customers to spend time getting to the businesses (who wants to spend an hour in traffic to do a bit of shopping). Reduce that and everyone wins.

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Any business worth its salt performs analysis of previous years and projects anticipated future growth so I'm not sure this would classify as anecdotal

How do they determine what causes a negative impact on their business without fairly extensive research? That's not something done by the majority of businesses. That's all I meant by anecdotal.

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't forget, when Shop Street, Grafton Street and others were proposed as pedestrian only there was talks of doom and gloom, yet ask any business on those streets if they would prefer to go back to the way it was and there wouldn't be a single taker to that offer.

You'd think so but I've heard a few of the older owners still maintain it was a mistake as recently as a year or two ago .

Deleted User wrote: »

Simply put, the congestion discourages customers to spend time getting to the businesses (who wants to spend an hour in traffic to do a bit of shopping). Reduce that and everyone wins.

Totally agree. And I agree that congestion probably is causing a negative impact on businesses. I was just making the point that people can latch onto anecdotal reasons for things and convince themselves they're true.

billybonkers

Rechuchote wrote: »

Absolutely right. In the Netherlands, people registered as disabled can buy cheap tiny one-person cars that can only go the speed of a bicycle, and can use them in bicycle lanes.

Is that a G Whizz?