The "undocumented" Irish in America

Graces7

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

Not a chance would I do it. I did a J1 there years back and knew guys around NY that couldn't come home for their own parents' funeral for fear that they wouldn't get back in.

In this day and age, I find it incredible that people are willing to go over and live there illegally, constantly looking over their shoulder. Different in the 80's when the fella who left Ireland was earning 3 or 4 times as much bartending or on the buildings as what he would in any normal job at home. Those days are long gone.

Taking a job a genuine American could be doing?

garbo speaks

The illegal Irish in America deserve no sympathy, and the sooner Trump throws them all out the better.

wexie

garbo speaks wrote: »

The illegal Irish in America deserve no sympathy, and the sooner Trump throws them all out the better.

what if they all come back here and we'll be stuck with them?
He's unlikely to deport them to Syria like
Maybe Mexico?

garbo speaks

wexie wrote: »

what if they all come back here and we'll be stuck with them?

Better than them Syrians.

MattressRick

Donald Trump wrote: »

I don't think they want your sympathy.

What is there to gain by treating them like an underclass?

Regularize their situation. Allow then to have some official, temporary status contingent on paying a fine and continued good behaviour etc. Give them something to work towards. It's a win-win. When you have a reasonable system in place it makes it easier and cleaner to get rid of actual chancers and messers

Of course they want people's sympathy, public persuasion is how they hope to lobby the US government. Anyone I know who's illegal has played the tune about not being able to go home for weddings, funerals whatever.
Why should they give them something to work towards? Flip it around and imagine you're a tradesman here getting undercut for jobs by illegal tradesmen working on the black market. Would u be in a rush to legalise their situation?

Donald Trump

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist, but going by your comments on this I'm develping a sneaking suspicion that you're not actually Donald Trump at all, but some kind of cunning imposter.

As you know, I just repeat the position of the person that I talked to 1t5 minutes earlier.

I was going to almost agree with your claim at first, but then I noticed it said "cunning imposter" and not "cunting imposter"

Jimbob1977

We think we deserve special treatment because we're white and we speak English and we enjoy the craic.

That's the main reason.

Our illegals are just the same as the Mexican or Somali illegals. We just have more clout on Capitol Hill.

Donald Trump

MattressRick wrote: »

Of course they want people's sympathy, public persuasion is how they hope to lobby the US government. Anyone I know who's illegal has played the tune about not being able to go home for weddings, funerals whatever.
Why should they give them something to work towards? Flip it around and imagine you're a tradesman here getting undercut for jobs by illegal tradesmen working on the black market. Would u be in a rush to legalise their situation?

Yeah....you have no idea about tradesmen in the US. They don't quite exist in the same way that you qualified trademen in Ireland.

If you are a qualified chippie in Ireland, and you go to the US, you're going to be massively undercut in all your jobs anyway by casual labour. Need a door frame to be fixed ..... well that is going to done by the cheaper Jose who just knows how to do doors. When you want your skirting board replaced, you send Jose home and they send you the fella who just knows how to do skirting board............. If you are qualified under the Irish system, you're probably only going to be a supervisor or manager in the US

It's not an abuse of any system....it is their system.

Of course there will be plenty of talented people but there are no rules requiring someone to have papers. And I mean papers in reference to qualification, not immigration

At the end of the day, whatever your industry, if your livelihood is threatened by someone who can walk in the door and do your job after 5 minutes.......I'd suggest that you should upskill if you want some security

Mrs OBumble

seachto7 wrote: »

Why should there be a procedure in the first place? Why should someone from NZ have an easier procedure than someone from Glasgow for Aus?

Playing devil's advocate here....

Because of the close economic and cultural ties:

Someone from Glasgow has an easy time getting into Ireland, but a hard time getting into Australia.

Whereas someone from NZ has a hard time getting into Ireland, but a pretty time getting into Australia (easy to get in - but less support once you get there and the lad from Glasgow has in Ireland).

The US doesn't appear to have ties like that to anywhere. Arguably they should have them to Mexico and Canada.

Donald Trump

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

We think we deserve special treatment because we're white and we speak English and we enjoy the craic.

That's the main reason.

Our illegals are just the same as the Mexican or Somali illegals. We just have more clout on Capitol Hill.

I don't think that's necessarily accurate.

You just hear about the Irish ones as they are relevant to Ireland.

And Irish politicians have more responsibility to raise issues of Irish citizens than to try to help Somali citizens


I doubt you're going to read much in Mexican newspapers about Irish illegals

MattressRick

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yeah....you have no idea about tradesmen in the US. They don't quite exist in the same way that you qualified trademen in Ireland.

If you are a qualified chippie in Ireland, and you go to the US, you're going to be massively undercut in all your jobs anyway by casual labour. Need a door frame to be fixed ..... well that is going to done by the cheaper Jose who just knows how to do doors. When you want your skirting board replaced, you send Jose home and they send you the fella who just knows how to do skirting board............. If you are qualified under the Irish system, you're probably only going to be a supervisor or manager in the US

It's not an abuse of any system....it is their system.

Of course there will be plenty of talented people but there are no rules requiring someone to have papers. And I mean papers in reference to qualification, not immigration

At the end of the day, whatever your industry, if your livelihood is threatened by someone who can walk in the door and do your job after 5 minutes.......I'd suggest that you should upskill if you want some security

Have u worked in the states? Countless Irish tradesmen are sole trader tradesmen, working illegally with their own businesses and do their own work, not just supervising as you put it. When the business grows they oversee jobs on different sites but they do their own work to get the business going.
Have u ever used a tradesman here??
No tradesmen here call to a house to do a job and have to show their qualifications. You can act in the pretence if being qualified here and get away with it as long as the works up to scratch. Who shows papers here before starting a job?

Shelga

Heard a piece about this on Morning Ireland as I was getting ready for work the other day. The bias of RTE is incredible. The report talked about them as if they were a persecuted minority, as someone else mentioned. I listened to the whole thing, thinking, I bet they'll never mention the fact that these people knowingly broke the law, and of course I was right.

Zero sympathy from me, and most other people, I would imagine.

malinheader

Shelga wrote: »

Heard a piece about this on Morning Ireland as I was getting ready for work the other day. The bias of RTE is incredible. The report talked about them as if they were a persecuted minority, as someone else mentioned. I listened to the whole thing, thinking, I bet they'll never mention the fact that these people knowingly broke the law, and of course I was right.

Zero sympathy from me, and most other people, I would imagine.

Well I for one have sympathy for them. If you from a rural part of the country there is not much prospect of jobs and heading away to work was always a done thing. And I wouldn't worry about them coming back after reading most of the posts on here they will see nothing much has changed in ireland.

Paddy Cow

malinheader wrote: »

Well I for one have sympathy for them. If you from a rural part of the country there is not much prospect of jobs and heading away to work was always a done thing. And I wouldn't worry about them coming back after reading most of the posts on here they will see nothing much has changed in ireland.

I'm from rural Ireland and I headed off to Galway. You don't have to head off to America illegally to find work :rolleyes:

dan1895

malinheader wrote: »

Well I for one have sympathy for them. If you from a rural part of the country there is not much prospect of jobs and heading away to work was always a done thing. And I wouldn't worry about them coming back after reading most of the posts on here they will see nothing much has changed in ireland.

No problem with people heading off to find work abroad but why not do it legally? Too much of an inconvenience? Boo bloody hoo.