Cork developments

I've been to several conferences at the Aviva, never needed to drive there.
PUC is a short walk, from the city, or a very small taxi fare on a corporate card

Shedite27

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been to several conferences at the Aviva, never needed to drive there.
PUC is a short walk, from the city, or a very small taxi fare on a corporate card

Yeah but a lot will. Aviva Stadium has a big underground carpark under the east stand and training pitch

timmyjimmy

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been to several conferences at the Aviva, never needed to drive there.
PUC is a short walk, from the city, or a very small taxi fare on a corporate card

I've been to conferences at PuC. I've cycled down and drove down, most of my Irish colleagues drove down. Our American counterparts walked down or got a taxi down. There was probably 300 at the conference all in. There was enough parking around the stadium for our conference albeit on the small side.

Public transport is essential to make it more attractive for conferences albeit the powers that be think it's a car park that's needed.

timmyjimmy

timmyjimmy wrote: »

I've been to conferences at PuC. I've cycled down and drove down, most of my Irish colleagues drove down. Our American counterparts walked down or got a taxi down. There was probably 300 at the conference all in. There was enough parking around the stadium for our conference albeit on the small side.

Public transport is essential to make it more attractive for conferences albeit the powers that be think it's a car park that's needed.

So your American counterparts had the right idea over the Irish lads mentality of "Need a car for everything"

major interest

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yeah but a lot will. Aviva Stadium has a big underground carpark under the east stand and training pitch

Do they really need another car park down there given that one has just recently been completed for the Marina/Shandon boat club. Could they not come to an agreement to use that as an overflow car park on the few days it’s needed, it’s literally a 5 minute walk
from there.

snotboogie

Shedite27 wrote: »

How much public money went to it V GAA funded?

Every stadium around the world gets the same problem, lots of people will say they'll never use it and it's a waste.
- then Westlife sells out 3 nights toa crowd that wouldn't go otherwise.
- it was in the proposal for RWC wasn't it, so rugby would have got benefit too.
- if CCFC every make European stages it would allow them play games in Cork.

You can't judge the ROI on what it's delivered over the past 3 years since opening, it's a stadium that's there now to be used for 30 years.

It is certainly not the case that "every stadium in the world has this problem" ffs! This is a uniquely underused stadium. I challenge anyone to name any stadium in the world opened this century which is used less often.

Pete_Cavan

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Outside of the public money directly handed over, it's very hard to put a value on lands which were CPO'd many decades ago and then given over at zero-cost to the private organisation.
How much is the "centre of excellence" (AKA future hotel) land beside PUC worth to them? I'd say quite a lot. How much did they pay? I don't believe they paid anything, but am willing to be proven wrong. The land value could be in the millions, realistically.

Cork County Board paid €1,595,307.90 for the land. It is to be used for sporting and recreation purposes only so no hotel.

https://twitter.com/MarinaParkCork/status/1337052831069638658

Shedite27

snotboogie wrote: »

It is certainly not the case that "every stadium in the world has this problem" ffs! This is a uniquely underused stadium. I challenge anyone to name any stadium in the world opened this century which is used less often.

No the, problem I referred "with every stadium in the world" was that a big cohort of the population think its a waste of money. That being the half that aren't into that sport. In the states they have polcical campaigns around "we'll get a new stadium for Cleveland".

I wasn't referring to how underused you think it is. A 3 year old stadium with one of those years in Covid obviously hasn't got the volume you'd expect. It's contracted to have 20 games a season there, has had sell out concerts, and acts as a conference centre during the week. Not sure what you're expecting. Surely we're better off having the facility there for when we need it for concerts/games than moaning we've nowhere in Corkk for Ed Sheerans next tour

Mardyke

You could still have concerts and big corporate events in a modern 25,000 to 30,000 all-seater stadium.

Even if Cork City FC do ever make it to European group stages, I don't think they could use the terraces for those games.

Munster have their own ground in Limerick and its very rare that they ever need more than 15-20,000 seats.

So, basically they've built a dated stadium for about one GAA game every 5 years that is completely sold out. Even a Cork v Tipp munster final would barely sell out these days.

snotboogie

Shedite27 wrote: »

No the, problem I referred "with every stadium in the world" was that a big cohort of the population think its a waste of money. That being the half that aren't into that sport. In the states they have polcical campaigns around "we'll get a new stadium for Cleveland".

I wasn't referring to how underused you think it is. A 3 year old stadium with one of those years in Covid obviously hasn't got the volume you'd expect. It's contracted to have 20 games a season there, has had sell out concerts, and acts as a conference centre during the week. Not sure what you're expecting. Surely we're better off having the facility there for when we need it for concerts/games than moaning we've nowhere in Corkk for Ed Sheerans next tour

Come on, it had over two full years before covid, it opened in July 2017, that is hardly an excuse.

Musgrave Park, with a capacity of 8k had more fans through its doors than the 45k PUC in 2019. As much as people want to deny it, PUC is a monumentally underused stadium. There is no other stadium in the world that has a worse capacity to attendance ratio.

Hell the rugby set were complaining that Aviva was under capacity. No one was saying that it was not needed.

Shedite27

snotboogie wrote: »

Come on, it had over two full years before covid, it opened in July 2017, that is hardly an excuse.

Musgrave Park, with a capacity of 8k had more fans through its doors than the 45k PUC in 2019. As much as people want to deny it, PUC is a monumentally underused stadium. There is no other stadium in the world that has a worse capacity to attendance ratio.

What's your issue with having spare seats tho? Is it not better to have it available to you for when you do need it, than to be complaining later "why did we build half a stadium and now don't have a suitable venue in the city".

If they built a smaller stadium that sold out every game, people would only be moaning "we should have built it bigger from the start"

Munstersrebel

Mardyke wrote: »

Munster have their own ground in Limerick and its very rare that they ever need more than 15-20,000 seats.

Munster regularly sells out Thomond Park tyvm! 2/3 is taken up by season ticket holders (well until Covid reared its ugly head) alone...

Here in Cork they only play the less high profile games.

snotboogie

Shedite27 wrote: »

What's your issue with having spare seats tho? Is it not better to have it available to you for when you do need it, than to be complaining later "why did we build half a stadium and now don't have a suitable venue in the city".

If they built a smaller stadium that sold out every game, people would only be moaning "we should have built it bigger from the start"

Really you want me to explain the problem with empty seats in stadiums to you?

You really are saying that having the worst capacity to attendance ratio of any stadium finished in the last 20 years isn't a problem because "we have the extra capacity just in case"?

hans aus dtschl

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Cork County Board paid €1,595,307.90 for the land. It is to be used for sporting and recreation purposes only so no hotel.

That's a lot different than I originally posted, and changes considerably my opinion of the all-weather pitch. It may be a bit of a strange sale (CPO to private organisation, by private treaty) but at least the City did get payment for it.
Thanks for the post!

I understand what you're saying about the land usage, but quite a lot of people refer to that land as being the future hotel. Most likely because the stated reasons for acquisition were clearly nonsense ("centre of excellence").

It's a great facility overall (in my opinion) and handing over city land to a private organisation for free was my primary reservation. If the city makes money from the sale, so be it.

My secondary reservation is the City Council's willingness to put in car parks but not better public transport. But what can the GAA do about that? Virtually nothing. That's a City Council issue.

hans aus dtschl

Shedite27 wrote: »

They built that stadium in the 70's, when most of that land was reclaimed marsh. Don't think you can say that's a handout, they made that valuable.

Car Park? Well they hold conferences there, as another poster said, people currently park outside residents houses at the moment, the car park is needed (I'm sure there's room for a playground too.


And you're totally speculating wiht regards to hotels, lets stick to what's real.

Look, with respect, you're on a totally different page to me here. I think Pete_Cavan understood my post and has replied to it in a way I'm sure you'll be satisfied though?

For what it's worth, I've driven to conferences in PUC and parked in the ample car park that currently exists. The new car park isn't needed for conferences, realistically. People don't park outside of local residences during conferences.

With the hotel, yes it is speculation. But to be fair, it's about as realistic as a "centre of excellence", right?

namloc1980

The stadium is long built now. This argument is a waste of time at this stage but regularly gets brought up anyway.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

The stadium is long built now. This argument is a waste of time at this stage but regularly gets brought up anyway.

It's not when they keep trying to procure public land, for their white elephant

Apogee

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1372865810822279168

Pen Rua

€405m for Cork regeneration projects.

https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1372867009164283908

Split is:
€353m for Docklands
€46m for "Grand Parade Quarter" (???)
€4.7m for Mallow Town Centre
€817.5k for Passage West / Ringaskiddy / Carrigaline Harbour.

Pen Rua

Full release here. It includes a detailed breakdown of the proposed projects under each heading.

Highlights include
- New city library (inclusive of rooftop garden space)
- Enhanced public spaces in the Docklands, including Eastern Gateway Bridge and other transport links
- Renovation of Bishop Lucey Park
- New public areas in Grand Parade Quarter, including boardwalks and other open spaces as an alternative to Bishop Lucey Park

Quotes from MM include:
“It provides funding for the new Marina Park, it provides funding for cycleways, walkways and the Eastern Gateway Bridge, which will further improve connectivity."

“The investment will transform the Grand Parade with over €50m for a new public library, a new central plaza and boardwalk to facilitate cultural and recreational activities – making it one of the most attractive features in the centre of our city."

Pity we'll never see commuter rail in Cork. Train station right across the river and we have a single line to Cobh/Midleton and another on main line to Mallow (with no stops on the way in)

Nothing from Mitchelstown/Fermoy and nothing from the Bandon/Clon direction.

cantalach

namloc1980 wrote: »

The stadium is long built now. This argument is a waste of time at this stage but regularly gets brought up anyway.

A society that doesn’t ruminate on its historical mistakes risks repeating them.

namloc1980

A new city library is badly needed. Welcome indeed. I hope these things actually go ahead and get built thigh and don't go on the long finger after a big announcement.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Pity we'll never see commuter rail in Cork. Train station right across the river and we have a single line to Cobh/Midleton and another on main line to Mallow (with no stops on the way in)

Nothing from Mitchelstown/Fermoy and nothing from the Bandon/Clon direction.

Building new rail lines costs an absolute fortune. No chance of happening to be honest.

thomil

cantalach wrote: »

A society that doesn’t ruminate on its historical mistakes risks repeating them.

Rumination gets you nowhere! Critical analysis is needed, but that's something that appears to be totally alien to this country, and not just on a political level.

As for the announcement, colour me sceptical. This seems like the Star Citizen of infrastructure investments: Lots of hype, lots of money and at the end, the result will be years out of date and buggy as hell.

I want this to succeed, I believe this needs to succeed in order to keep Cork attractive as a city, but between the boundless incompetence of the city council and the general intransigence of the local populace, combined with their unequalled ability to shoot themselves in the foot with a gatling gun, I can't see anything more than a few yards of rotting boardwalk, a half-finished park and a half-arsed library being the end result of all of this.

Brussels Sprout

namloc1980 wrote: »

A new city library is badly needed. Welcome indeed. I hope these things actually go ahead and get built thigh and don't go on the long finger after a big announcement.

Serious question - Do young people still use libraries (outside of college ones)?

I'm not saying that this project shouldn't got ahead as it's good to have something in the city centre that isn't just another shop, pub or restaurant. I can just imagine a scenario where something like this can become a white elephant in years to come.

thomil

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Serious question - Do young people still use libraries (outside of college ones)?

The last time I was in the city centre library, it was pretty packed, with all age groups. In addition, given the amount of twentysomethings I've seen reading or studying in cafes across the city, there are going to be more than enough users/customers for any new library.

Now, of course the big thing is going to be the design of that new library. The last time I was in there, there were precious few options to actually sit down and read a book, or study, etc. If this gets rectified in the new design, I'd be willing to say that it could become a new focal point on Grand Parade. If it ever gets built, that is.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Building new rail lines costs an absolute fortune. No chance of happening to be honest.

Oh I know, they can't even get the Blarney line run out. Just find it crazy that we don't have a DART equivalent, in the Cork metro and commuter area.

Shedite27

snotboogie wrote: »

Really you want me to explain the problem with empty seats in stadiums to you?

You really are saying that having the worst capacity to attendance ratio of any stadium finished in the last 20 years isn't a problem because "we have the extra capacity just in case"?

LIsten, you're clearly not a sports person, so I'm not gonna try to debate a sports stadium with you