Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

upandcumming

Faugheen wrote: »

What else does this say about him and his treatment of women in his company?

Stone nothing.

Faugheen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

It wasn't just the text messages. You don't get it.

Jackson's barrister described someone as the 'perfect rape victim' which tells the public what a rape victim looks like. Whether you believe her story or not, that's a disgraceful comment to make and it ties in to your narrative about people telling others how they should feel, which you find the idea of deplorable. Jackson may not have said those words, but someone else did on his behalf.

Not to mention what came out after the trial. More blood stains? They weren't hers, granted, but is she then the only girl that he's made bleed through his actions? Very possible that she wasn't. What else does this say about him and his treatment of women in his company?

You're basing everyone else's arguments off the text messages, which is absolutely not the texts. If this was the case, Gilroy would have lost his job too.

Sure why not fire in some sensationalist speculation. I mean Jackson has to be got, eh? :rolleyes:

Whether you like it or not, questions will be asked about it. Speculation, yes, but it's a valid question as to why he has the bloodstains of people that isn't him or the woman in question on his sheets.

Doesn't imply rape, not in the slightest, but it raises questions that you don't like the idea of.

Just admit that you don't give a **** about how they treated her and be done with it.

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, questions will be asked about it. Speculation, yes, but it's a valid question as to why he has the bloodstains of people that isn't him or the woman in question on his sheets.

Doesn't imply rape, not in the slightest, but it raises questions that you don't like the idea of.

Just admit that you don't give a **** about how they treated her and be done with it.

'I don't like the idea of'? :D:D

He had bloodstains on his sheets in a house that sounded like a student gaff.

He was a 'rugby player', frequently injured. Other men testified that they used the bed etc etc.

If you stopped peering in bedroom windows with a big moralistic head you might grasp why it wasn't considered important to anybody only the redtop papers and elements of the mob.

roshje

Is the trial over?

flatty

roshje wrote: »

Is the trial over?

Sadly not.

Yeah_Right

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well in fairness then Francie your position has shifted as you have taken account of unfolding events because post trial you thought that the top French clubs would snap Jackson up in a hurry. Now he is looking at playing third tier NZ rugby, it doesnt get much lesser than that for a world class no.10

You're showing a lack of knowledge of NZ rugby by saying Waikato are in the third tier. Super Rugby is an international competition. The 5 NZ franchises are made up of players from NZ's NPC competition. That consists of the Premiereship and the Championship. Those teams all play each other. Then spilt come finals time. Below that level is the Heartland Championship. Heartland teams can not get promoted. Waikato are in the top tier of NZ's domestic competition and is a traditional powerhouse.

I hope he does go there and then gets a Super Rugby contract. I see no reason why he wouldn't. They've had players convicted of assault, DV, drink driving, vehicular manslaughter. I hope he ends up at the Blues. They could use him.

facehugger99

Yeah_Right wrote: »

They've had players convicted of assault, DV, drink driving, vehicular manslaughter.

Sounds perfect

ohnonotgmail

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You're showing a lack of knowledge of NZ rugby by saying Waikato are in the third tier. Super Rugby is an international competition. The 5 NZ franchises are made up of players from NZ's NPC competition. That consists of the Premiereship and the Championship. Those teams all play each other. Then spilt come finals time. Below that level is the Heartland Championship. Heartland teams can not get promoted. Waikato are in the top tier of NZ's domestic competition and is a traditional powerhouse.

I hope he does go there and then gets a Super Rugby contract. I see no reason why he wouldn't. They've had players convicted of assault, DV, drink driving, vehicular manslaughter. I hope he ends up at the Blues. They could use him.

Well waikato are in the championship so it is not totally crazy to describe it as third tier. Given the salary cap in NZ he will be taking a MASSIVE pay cut.

2smiggy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well waikato are in the championship so it is not totally crazy to describe it as third tier.

they're also not playing international rugby so also not crazy to say fourth tier ?

ohnonotgmail

2smiggy wrote: »

they're also not playing international rugby so also not crazy to say fourth tier ?

well clubs dont play international rugby so no

Yeah_Right

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well waikato are in the championship so it is not totally crazy to describe it as third tier. Given the salary cap in NZ he will be taking a MASSIVE pay cut.

You didn't actually read what I wrote. Championship and Premiereship teams play each other. They only split at finals time. It's a weird competition. It's definitely not third tier. I'd say it's a higher standard of rugby than Pro D2 in France.

You are right that it would be a massive pay cut for him. Even if he got a SR contract next year he would still be on a lot less than what he was at Ulster. I'd say half. The upside is it's a better lifestyle down there and he'd be playing top level rugby.

Of course this is all speculation as he hasn't signed for anyone yet. I hope he does go to Super Rugby.

ohnonotgmail

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You didn't actually read what I wrote. Championship and Premiereship teams play each other. They only split at finals time. It's a weird competition. It's definitely not third tier. I'd say it's a higher standard of rugby than Pro D2 in France.

You are right that it would be a massive pay cut for him. Even if he got a SR contract next year he would still be on a lot less than what he was at Ulster. I'd say half. The upside is it's a better lifestyle down there and he'd be playing top level rugby.

Of course this is all speculation as he hasn't signed for anyone yet. I hope he does go to Super Rugby.

massive is an understatement. The cap per player for the tier he would be playing at is nz$55,000. that is peanuts.

facehugger99

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

massive is an understatement. The cap per player for the tier he would be playing at is nz$55,000. that is peanuts.

33k euro!

Jaysus.

We pay the graduates more than that in our place.

FrancieBrady

There will be much twittering and gnashing of teeth.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0608/969069-paddy-jackson-signs-for-perpignan-on-two-year-deal/

2smiggy

swapping Ulster for Perpignan not a bad result for Paddy at all !!

ohnonotgmail

2smiggy wrote: »

swapping Ulster for Perpignan not a bad result for Paddy at all !!

given how poor Ulster have been this is probably a step up.

2smiggy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

given how poor Ulster have been this is probably a step up.

well a fresh start for him anyway, and it is a very nice place.

upandcumming

2smiggy wrote: »

well a fresh start for him anyway, and it is a very nice place.

Lovely place, was there a couple of years ago. Delighted for him to get a club, pity he was driven out of his own country.

Uncharted

Absolutely delighted for Paddy Jackson. Hopefully this turns out to be a launchpad for him and after his 2 year contract,he can sign for any club without unwarrented prejudice.

He's a top class number 10. Perpignon have done well.

DavidLyons_

"But, but, but..... what about that shocking, single Whatsapp message he sent??" The idiots on twitter will implode at this news hopefully.

Jackson didn't cover himself in glory throughout this whole sorry episode but some holier-than-thou morons would wish for him to have his life ruined even though the worst thing proved against him was a fairly run of the mill, innocuous, whatsapp message sent when he was probably still half shot from the night before.

LuckyLloyd

Good outcome. Got fully paid by Ulster and gets a move to a relatively quiet place in the South of France where he can focus on his performances. They're not in Europe this year which will also help.

I think it's right that he continues his career.

Ineedaname

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

"But, but, but..... what about that shocking, single Whatsapp message he sent??" The idiots on twitter will implode at this news hopefully.

Jackson didn't cover himself in glory throughout this whole sorry episode but some holier-than-thou morons would wish for him to have his life ruined even though the worst thing proved against him was a fairly run of the mill, innocuous, whatsapp message sent when he was probably still half shot from the night before.

You know what I find funny? All the talk on Twitter about those vile, disgusting WhatsApp messages. Yet every single person I've seen asked to quote what he said is unable to do so.

He was a dickhead by all accounts but in the end he's entitled to move on with his life. It's a good move for him.

upandcumming

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There will be much twittering and gnashing of teeth.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0608/969069-paddy-jackson-signs-for-perpignan-on-two-year-deal/

Some serious poison flying around already...

AudreyHepburn

Good for him - PJ and SO are, whether the naysayers like it or not, innocent young men and deserve to be allowed to go on with their lives without fear of retribution over one silly drunken night.

ispeakdatruth

Delighted for him.
Good to see him getting his life back in order.


Party back in Paddy’s to celebrate ? ðŸ˜

AudreyHepburn

Muahahaha wrote: »

I knew I shouldnt have went on to Twitter :eek:

https://twitter.com/hear_I_am_now/status/1001148200126943232
https://twitter.com/_millmill_/status/1001129907441762304
https://twitter.com/Browssieboy/status/1001446986795704320
https://twitter.com/FrancescaJane__/status/1001437222548201472

Jesus you’d swear he was Larry Murphy!

AudreyHepburn

Faugheen wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, questions will be asked about it. Speculation, yes, but it's a valid question as to why he has the bloodstains of people that isn't him or the woman in question on his sheets.

Doesn't imply rape, not in the slightest, but it raises questions that you don't like the idea of.

Just admit that you don't give a **** about how they treated her and be done with it.

I don’t think it’s the case the case that no one cares how she was treated or how they view women generally Faugheen. I think it’s more that to many of us the events of that night aren’t as sordid or anti women as being claimed.

Yes she was upset, yes she bled, yes she regretted what had taken place. But none of that makes it rape nor does it mean PJ and co hate women or think little of them.

We all do stupid things while drunk that in no way reflect who we really are.

Faugheen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, questions will be asked about it. Speculation, yes, but it's a valid question as to why he has the bloodstains of people that isn't him or the woman in question on his sheets.

Doesn't imply rape, not in the slightest, but it raises questions that you don't like the idea of.

Just admit that you don't give a **** about how they treated her and be done with it.

I don’t think it’s the case the case that no one cares how she was treated or how they view women generally Faugheen. I think it’s more that to many of us the events of that night aren’t as sordid or anti women as being claimed.

Yes she was upset, yes she bled, yes she regretted what had taken place. But none of that makes it rape nor does it mean PJ and co hate women or think little of them.

We all do stupid things while drunk that in no way reflect who we really are.

I never once said they raped her, but it doesn't take anything away from the facts. One out of the three parties involved was not happy with what happened and it started before she even left the house.

I've stated numerous times that I think she believes she was raped, but because she said nothing and 'froze' that Jackson and Olding were not aware of what's going on, and you can't do them for that either.

Olding at least showed some remorse for what happened and at least acknowledged that she gave her account from her perceptions as well as suggesting that it wasn't going to get easy for him from there.

Jackson did f*ck all until his back was against the wall, and even then gave a half-arsed apology.

If you're earning anywhere near the fortune Jackson was on, then you better believe that it doesn't entitle you to be an arsehole, because the public will find out about it. Him and his mates were clearly flinging women around like they were pieces of meat before and after this night in question.

This time, someone didn't like it, and Jackson went on to claim through his solicitor that all of this only happened because he was an international rugby player. Talk about a sense of entitlement.

Yet it's people like some here who support them doing this and celebrating when he starts earning six figures again just to stick it to 'the mob' that give them that sense.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

I never once said they raped her, but it doesn't take anything away from the facts. One out of the three parties involved was not happy with what happened and it started before she even left the house.

I've stated numerous times that I think she believes she was raped, but because she said nothing and 'froze' that Jackson and Olding were not aware of what's going on, and you can't do them for that either.

Olding at least showed some remorse for what happened and at least acknowledged that she gave her account from her perceptions as well as suggesting that it wasn't going to get easy for him from there.

Jackson did f*ck all until his back was against the wall, and even then gave a half-arsed apology.

If you're earning anywhere near the fortune Jackson was on, then you better believe that it doesn't entitle you to be an arsehole, because the public will find out about it. Him and his mates were clearly flinging women around like they were pieces of meat before and after this night in question.

This time, someone didn't like it, and Jackson went on to claim through his solicitor that all of this only happened because he was an international rugby player. Talk about a sense of entitlement.

Yet it's people like some here who support them doing this and celebrating when he starts earning six figures again just to stick it to 'the mob' that give them that sense.

There is an appropriate level of punishment for their actions since the court of law is being ignored. That level is ambiguous and up the individual's moral stance. They have served far beyond this level in my opinion. Them having to find a new career entirely is far beyond it, so yes, I am celebrating that they have found employment in their field. And I will stick to that twitter mob that hounded them out of their own country. That does not mean I support their actions. I support appropriate punishment for crimes. Ideally an independent jury and judge would figure out what the appropriate punishment should be.

upandcumming

Deleted User wrote: »

There is an appropriate level of punishment for their actions since the court of law is being ignored. That level is ambiguous and up the individual's moral stance. They have served far beyond this level in my opinion. Them having to find a new career entirely is far beyond it, so yes, I am celebrating that they have found employment in their field. And I will stick to that twitter mob that hounded them out of their own country. That does not mean I support their actions. I support appropriate punishment for crimes. Ideally an independent jury and judge would figure out what the appropriate punishment should be.

You're right, but really wasting your time responding.