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Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

1…6667697172…108

Comments

  • #2042
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    They got found not guilty but then got treated like they had been found guilty. That is what is wrong with society.


  • #2043
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Who were the people claiming that? I thought everyone accepted that they would play again, not in Ireland but abroad. I think Appledreams hoped they wouldnt play again but iirc people who follow rugby recognised that they would

    In any case your own claims proved to be well wide of the mark-

    Not that wide. Brive will play Irish teams so he will still be relevant to Irish rugby supporters.
    And maybe not a lot had the balls to say they didn't, out of spite, want these guys to play again, but that was most definitely the subtext.
    Since Clermont and Exeter refused them we can also add Sale Sharks to the list and god knows how many others we dont know about in the background.

    Almost three months on from the trial and Olding has signed for relegation fodder in France and Jacksons latest hope is that Waikato in New Zealand will sign him. This is resting on whether or not his friend and former Ulster Rugby coach Jono Gibbes (who was appointed to the Waikato head coach job only last Monday) can persuade the board of Waikato rugby that Jackson is not toxic to their brand. Waikato won only two games last season and are not even in the Super 14. In fact they just got relegated from the Premiership.

    I doubt Jackson would even go to what is essentially a third division club in New Zealand, his skill and talent is far above that station. But who knows, maybe at this stage with no offers on the table he is desperate and a move the other side of the world might be the best he can achieve in the circumstances. If it is then he can expect a massive paycut and he will also be paid in NZ$ which compounds the his financial situation even further.

    One thing is for certain here though, all the big teams are giving him a wide berth. And that his actions throughout this sorry mess have seriously turned off sponsors for whom clubs depend to pay the wages. Jackson bit the hand that feeds him and he is finding out the reality of that situation now.

    All they need is a contract for a season. Play well and then it will be business as usual.

    You can see clearly that the mob has moved on to pastures new already.


  • #2044
    razorblunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Who were the people claiming that? I thought everyone accepted that they would play again, not in Ireland but abroad. I think Appledreams hoped they wouldnt play again but iirc people who follow rugby recognised that they would

    In any case your own claims proved to be well wide of the mark-



    Since Clermont and Exeter refused them we can also add Sale Sharks to the list and god knows how many others we dont know about in the background.

    Almost three months on from the trial and Olding has signed for relegation fodder in France and Jacksons latest hope is that Waikato in New Zealand will sign him. This is resting on whether or not his friend and former Ulster Rugby coach Jono Gibbes (who was appointed to the Waikato head coach job only last Monday) can persuade the board of Waikato rugby that Jackson is not toxic to their brand. Waikato won only two games last season and are not even in the Super 14. In fact they just got relegated from the Premiership.

    I doubt Jackson would even go to what is essentially a third division club in New Zealand, his skill and talent is far above that station. But who knows, maybe at this stage with no offers on the table he is desperate and a move the other side of the world might be the best he can achieve in the circumstances. If it is then he can expect a massive paycut and he will also be paid in NZ$ which compounds the his financial situation even further.

    One thing is for certain here though, all the big teams are giving him a wide berth. And that his actions throughout this sorry mess have seriously turned off sponsors for whom clubs depend to pay the wages. Jackson bit the hand that feeds him and he is finding out the reality of that situation now.

    When you say "not even in the Super 14". Waikato aren't a province they're a club side, they're never going to be "in" Super Rugby. It's like Cork Con and Munster. Playing for Waikato will put him on the radar for the Chiefs who do play Super Rugby.
    That would be a very smart move by Jackson.


  • #2045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Who were the people claiming that? I thought everyone accepted that they would play again, not in Ireland but abroad. I think Appledreams hoped they wouldnt play again but iirc people who follow rugby recognised that they would

    In any case your own claims proved to be well wide of the mark-



    Since Clermont and Exeter refused them we can also add Sale Sharks to the list and god knows how many others we dont know about in the background.

    Almost three months on from the trial and Olding has signed for relegation fodder in France and Jacksons latest hope is that Waikato in New Zealand will sign him. This is resting on whether or not his friend and former Ulster Rugby coach Jono Gibbes (who was appointed to the Waikato head coach job only last Monday) can persuade the board of Waikato rugby that Jackson is not toxic to their brand. Waikato won only two games last season and are not even in the Super 14. In fact they just got relegated from the Premiership.

    I doubt Jackson would even go to what is essentially a third division club in New Zealand, his skill and talent is far above that station. But who knows, maybe at this stage with no offers on the table he is desperate and a move the other side of the world might be the best he can achieve in the circumstances. If it is then he can expect a massive paycut and he will also be paid in NZ$ which compounds the his financial situation even further.

    One thing is for certain here though, all the big teams are giving him a wide berth. And that his actions throughout this sorry mess have seriously turned off sponsors for whom clubs depend to pay the wages. Jackson bit the hand that feeds him and he is finding out the reality of that situation now.


    How did he bite the hand that feeds him?


  • #2046
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,143 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Not that wide. Brive will play Irish teams so he will still be relevant to Irish rugby supporters.
    And maybe not a lot had the balls to say they didn't, out of spite, want these guys to play again, but that was most definitely the subtext.



    All they need is a contract for a season. Play well and then it will be business as usual.

    You can see clearly that the mob has moved on to pastures new already.


    Brive were relegated to Pro D2 so what irish teams will they be playing against?


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  • #2047
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Not that wide. Brive will play Irish teams so he will still be relevant to Irish rugby supporters.
    And maybe not a lot had the balls to say they didn't, out of spite, want these guys to play again, but that was most definitely the subtext.



    Brive were relegated to Pro D2 so what irish teams will they be playing against?

    'will play'. They won't stay in Division 2 for long, signing top players shows their intent.


  • #2048
    Vinnie222
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »

    'will play'. They won't stay in Division 2 for long, signing top players shows their intent.

    What other top players have they signed ? They would have got olding for peanuts


  • #2049
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,925 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    .




    All they need is a contract for a season. Play well and then it will be business as usual.

    You can see clearly that the mob has moved on to pastures new already.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    .......

    'will play'. They won't stay in Division 2 for long, signing top players shows their intent.

    Presumably they'll stay there for a season anyway.
    So is business as usual after the season moving on or staying with them?

    You don't know of course.

    Jackson seems to be struggling with the ole contract for a season currently.


  • #2050
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Augeo wrote: »
    Presumably they'll stay there for a season anyway.
    So is business as usual after the season moving on or staying with them?

    You don't know of course.

    Jackson seems to be struggling with the ole contract for a season currently.

    He has signed a 2 year contract. If he performs then his career is back on track. Business as usual.


  • #2051
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,786 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    razorblunt wrote: »
    When you say "not even in the Super 14". Waikato aren't a province they're a club side, they're never going to be "in" Super Rugby. It's like Cork Con and Munster. Playing for Waikato will put him on the radar for the Chiefs who do play Super Rugby.
    That would be a very smart move by Jackson.

    Fair enough, nonetheless this would be a big step down for Jackson. Waikato have just been relegated so he would be playing in the third tier of NZ rugby.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    How did he bite the hand that feeds him?


    As Rabblerouser pointed out yesterday it was his actions post trial- threatening to sue the rugby union and then members of the general public went down like a lead balloon. Other clubs noted it as did sponsors and as a result so far Clermont, Exeter and Sale have distanced themselves from him in public and I would be certain his agent has being hearing more of the same from other clubs in private. Sponsors pay the wages, they are the piper calling tune. The other side of it is the text messages- I dont think any rugby club marketing manager would fancy having Jackson on the team when they are trying to sell family season tickets or attract more women to attend games. No matter where he goes he has this stigma that will not sit well with a lot of people, it is a marketing managers nightmare IMO.

    Ive no doubt he will get a contract, likely reasonably soon. But the expectation that he will play at a top or middling club in Europe seems further away now than ever. If he kept his mouth shut post trial he would have weathered this an awful lot better. But instead he was badly advised and went on the attack before climbing back down the hill with an apology two weeks later. The damage couldnt be undone at that stage. What he really needed at that point was a savvy PR executive but what actually had was a bunch of angry lawyers who wanted to grandstand in front of the media pack and were egging him on. The lawyers had just made £500,000 out of him and were gagging for even more court action and legal fees. Jackson duly obliged but the threatening to sue all and sundry was not in his interests, it was only in the interests of his legal team.


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  • #2052
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Vinnie222 wrote: »
    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    What other top players have they signed ? They would have got olding for peanuts

    I would consider Olding a top signing, peanuts or not.


  • #2053
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,925 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He has signed a 2 year contract. If he performs then his career is back on track. Business as usual.

    He'll be performing in Division 2.
    The sponsors of top teams won't share in your business as usual opinion I reckon.


  • #2054
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,786 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Not that wide. Brive will play Irish teams so he will still be relevant to Irish rugby supporters.

    Cmon Francie Brive and potentially Waikato? No matter what way you look at it they are facing into a big step down. They are going down the divisions which means their wages are going to be slashed in comparison to what they were on in Ulster. What that says to me is that their agents exhausted all of the Premiership clubs in England and France and they all declined their services. So then the agent goes back to them and says lads none of the big fish are biting so if ye arent willing to take a serious pay cut and go down the divisions then you might not play professionally again.

    Jackson was on a reputed £400k a season at Ulster which translates into NZ$763k. He would be doing well to get NZ$150k at Waikato, realistically it could be less than that. There is not much money in the NZ provincial game and Waikato will also know Jackson is not exactly flush with offers here so his agent is negotiating from a very weak position. Id guess a move to NZ would see him taking a pay cut in the order of 70%-80%. It is a massive come down for him and even more so as he owes his parents several hundred thousand pounds sterling for the legal fees all the while his earnings would be in NZ$ which is a pretty weak currency.

    All they need is a contract for a season. Play well and then it will be business as usual.

    You can see clearly that the mob has moved on to pastures new already.

    Id agree with you there and what razorblunt said. One good season for Waikato could put him in the shop window for Super 14 clubs, provided their marketing & corporate sponsorship depts feel that things have blown over sufficiently.


  • #2055
    Vinnie222
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Vinnie222 wrote: »

    I would consider Olding a top signing, peanuts or not.

    Olding has been out of the game awhile now , also relocating wont be easy . Lets see how he goes . Bottom line is Brive are no longer a top club and will be playing in a poor league . A massive fall for Olding .


  • #2056
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Cmon Francie Brive and potentially Waikato? No matter what way you look at it they are facing into a big step down. They are going down the divisions which means their wages are going to be slashed in comparison to what they were on in Ulster. What that says to me is that their agents exhausted all of the Premiership clubs in England and France and they all declined their services. So then the agent goes back to them and says lads none of the big fish are biting so if ye arent willing to take a serious pay cut and go down the divisions then you might not play professionally again.

    Jackson was on a reputed £400k a season at Ulster which translates into NZ$763k. He would be doing well to get NZ$150k at Waikato, realistically it could be less than that. There is not much money in the NZ provincial game and Waikato will also know Jackson is not exactly flush with offers here so his agent is negotiating from a very weak position. Id guess a move to NZ would see him taking a pay cut in the order of 70%-80%. It is a massive come down for him and even more so as he owes his parents several hundred thousand pounds sterling for the legal fees all the while his earnings would be in NZ$ which is a pretty weak currency.




    Id agree with you there and what razorblunt said. One good season for Waikato could put him in the shop window for Super 14 clubs, provided their marketing & corporate sponsorship depts feel that things have blown over sufficiently.



    I have already said their route back would be through a lesser club and to wait for the mob to inevitably lose interest in favour of the next 'worst injustice ever'.
    Stage one completed for Olding it would seem.


  • #2057
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Taytoland wrote: »
    They got found not guilty but then got treated like they had been found guilty. That is what is wrong with society.

    Should Tony O'Brien have been let go as the top dog in the HSE for the CervicalCheck scandal? He wasn't found guilty of anything either.

    They are guilty of having a horrible attitude towards women, whether you like it or not, and that's their fault. Nobody else.

    If you're earning six figures and you're in the public eye then society really rallies against you when you f*ck it up, just like this pair have.


  • #2058
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He has signed a 2 year contract. If he performs then his career is back on track. Business as usual.

    image.jpg?w=444&c=1


  • #2059
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Should Tony O'Brien have been let go as the top dog in the HSE for the CervicalCheck scandal? He wasn't found guilty of anything either.

    They are guilty of having a horrible attitude towards women, whether you like it or not, and that's their fault. Nobody else.

    If you're earning six figures and you're in the public eye then society really rallies against you when you f*ck it up, just like this pair have.

    'Some' of society rallies against you for a 'while'. Until they get something else to get upset about...as we can plainly see.


  • #2060
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,786 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have already said their route back would be through a lesser club and to wait for the mob to inevitably lose interest in favour of the next 'worst injustice ever'.
    Stage one completed for Olding it would seem.

    Well in fairness then Francie your position has shifted as you have taken account of unfolding events because post trial you thought that the top French clubs would snap Jackson up in a hurry. Now he is looking at playing third tier NZ rugby, it doesnt get much lesser than that for a world class no.10


  • #2061
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    'Some' of society rallies against you for a 'while'. Until they get something else to get upset about...as we can plainly see.

    Still don't see Jackson getting many offers.

    Funny that Olding signs for the first club that isn't interested in both him and Jackson. Sensing the toxic person in all of this?

    You can bring this air so positivity about all you want, but the fact that you're happy for a pair of asshats like them to earn loads of money says to me that you don't believe they should be held accountable for their actions.

    Olding seems to have a head on his shoulders, at the very least, so I can give him a reluctant pass, but Jackson doesn't get it and has this air of self-entitlement about him which was given to him by his 400k a year job. He f*cked up and didn't even care about anything else but himself afterwards. No accountability. He can f*ck off as far as I'm concerned.


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  • #2062
    razorblunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Fair enough, nonetheless this would be a big step down for Jackson. Waikato have just been relegated so he would be playing in the third tier of NZ rugby.


    .
    If he played anything more than a full season for Waikato before going Super it would be a lot.

    Couple of more years in Japan after that, few medical joker signings in Europe and he could have a decent nest egg sorted for himself.


  • #2063
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    'Some' of society rallies against you for a 'while'. Until they get something else to get upset about...as we can plainly see.

    Some will continue to do so....

    https://twitter.com/CABCLRUGBY/status/1001096933644144641


  • #2064
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Can you imagine how Jackson is feeling about all this. Can you imagine the anger and bitterness.

    He must have some resolve.

    I wouldn't have the mental strength to go on if I'd been through what he has been.


  • #2065
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Can you imagine how Jackson is feeling about all this. Can you imagine the anger and bitterness.

    He must have some resolve.

    I wouldn't have the mental strength to go on if I'd been through what he has been.

    Yeah, poor Paddy :rolleyes:


  • #2066
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,713 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Still don't see Jackson getting many offers.

    .

    How do you know this?
    You don't know what offers Jackson has gotten.

    But carry on guessing.


  • #2067
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,100 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Can you imagine how Jackson is feeling about all this.

    Like a complete fcuktard?


  • #2068
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    How do you know this?
    You don't know what offers Jackson has gotten.

    But carry on guessing.

    I know for a fact that he got 2, and then they were withdrawn when the clubs realised how bad he was for their brand.

    Nothing to say about how he shouldn't be held accountable? You think he should be allowed to just walk back into his privileged 400k a year job just because a court found him not guilty?

    We have different standards for our high-ranking civil servants than we do of our sportsmen if that's the case.


  • #2069
    Triangle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Triangle


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Should Tony O'Brien have been let go as the top dog in the HSE for the CervicalCheck scandal? He wasn't found guilty of anything either.

    They are guilty of having a horrible attitude towards women, whether you like it or not, and that's their fault. Nobody else.

    If you're earning six figures and you're in the public eye then society really rallies against you when you f*ck it up, just like this pair have.

    Yet the hse exec overlooking the communication to the affected women has since gotten a promotion for failing in her duty. This is a witch hunt looking for male heads to roll.
    Nothing else.

    Edit: they don't have a bad attitude towards women. They have a bad attitude towards people. People like them think they need to protect each other and/or the institution.


  • #2070
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Triangle wrote: »
    Yet the hse exec overlooking the communication to the affected women has since gotten a promotion for failing in her duty. This is a witch hunt looking for male heads to roll.
    Nothing else.

    So you don't think Tony O'Brien should have been held accountable? Or Martin Callinan and his subsequent successor Noirin O'Sullivan?

    If you think they should be held accountable then fine, but just remember they weren't found guilty in court either.

    Jackson, like others in high-paying positions and in the public eye, should be held accountable when he makes a bags of it and you don't need a guilty verdict for that.


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  • #2071
    razorblunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    It's funny how people are citing the What's App messages when, Gilroy, one of the main culprits for the lewd chat finished off the season nicely with Ulster and will be there next year.


This discussion has been closed.
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