John Connors is a bit of a wanker

RabbleRouser2k

Loves_lorries wrote: »

One of the most redicolous aspects of the guys character is how he appears to be a hard core socialist, he often makes reference to che Guevara etc.

Under a socialist state, the likes of travellers would see the biggest culture shock, I've polish friends who have told me how Poland used to have a very big gypsy population, the communist government post 1945 didn't kill them or anything but they were forced to abandon their life of nomadic freedom and assimilate into the new single ideology which prevailed, travellers are the biggest capitalists-individualist of all in many ways, they have no interest in the national interest, a common purpose etc. Only under a free market system could their current existence be maintained.

Connors is a supremely ignorant individual above all else, a buffoon who has been made a sort of false prophet by both media phoneys and other hacks .

There's many, many 'false prophets' within Ireland at the moment-from that toff in a plastic bag, to yer wan living at home who blames men for everything, to the guy in the halting site who's a defamatory scumbag, to the footballer who doesn't drink, to the woman who wrote that one show who was genuinely out of touch.

I don't know if anyone was listening to what she said (and it was a shame nobody else challenged Connors) but essentially she was going on about putting down a deposit for a house, as well as her feelings that everyone should have a therapist, and it has about as much stigma as a doctor, or a hairdresser.
The problem is-where is the money for that going to come from?
Many people can't afford counselling-it's incredibly expensive. They can barely pay the bills. A doctor's visit is a rarity, and only in an emergency. And as for buying a house...good luck with that, buddy.

She seemed incredibly out of touch. Much of the panel did, it's just Johnny was the most notably out of sync.

Road-Hog

What I’m going to type won’t get much support but in any case here goes.......

When Irish people hear Americans or Australians or any other country refer to their ethnic minorities as the Irish do the travelers they are abhorred......travelers are stretching it somewhat by getting themselves classified as a ‘race’ or unique ethnic group but there is definitely an over the top and in lots of cases vicious ‘prejudice’ attitude towards this section of Irish society......people can’t see the irony anchored by the Rodney king incident all those years ago but if it had been an Irish traveler being beaten by the Gardaí then I doubt if many here would have had much sympathy...!

what John Connors said on live tv re the Gardaí was totally out of order but if a member of the ‘settled community’ said the same thing would there have been as much media coverage......unlikely.

Tzardine

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So just the Gardai doing their jobs and upholding a court order are scum?

I hope people have done a few stretches before bending over backwards to defend this...

I would say that most of the people that agree with him have done a stretch alright.

Edgware

I think we could delete the " a bit of" from the heading now

RocketRaccoon

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Deebles McBeebles

Road-Hog wrote: »

what John Connors said on live tv re the Gardaí was totally out of order but if a member of the ‘settled community’ said the same thing would there have been as much media coverage......unlikely.

Calling gardai scum? Yeah I don't think that's a traveller/settled issue, media would be covering it regardless.

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Irish people in general thankfully don't feel that way about everyone. Just the minority that take, take, take. That trouble causing minority just happen to be travellers.

Loves_lorries

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Why do some people exclusively look at this issue from the point of view of " it has to be plain bigotry on the part of the majority"?

I call it Vincent browne syndrome.

Loves_lorries

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Calling gardai scum? Yeah I don't think that's a traveller/settled issue, media would be covering it regardless.



Irish people in general thankfully don't feel that way about everyone. Just the minority that take, take, take. That trouble causing minority just happen to be travellers.

It's because a traveller said it that the reaction is so muted, no major broadcaster has said anything and nial boylan ( small time broadcaster) got more abuse on twitter for criticising Connors than Connors himself.

Political correctness prevents the criticism of someone with a minority profile.

andekwarhola

While I wish to swerve the bashing side, it's fair to say that if a middle class or establishment party guest issued a blanket designation of scum to the protestors, there would be uproar (and rightly so).

People need to be questioned about their utterances across the board, not with kid gloves on.

His comments on the LIDL were preposterous and, ironically, totally out of step with the majority of working class people from the area in which it happened.

Field east

Edgware wrote: »

I think we could delete the " a bit of" from the heading now

Ryan Tubs shown up again for his ability or lack of it. His inability to challenge was , yet again , shown up. He let outrageous statements stand without any comment of any real content.
All three panelists were singing from the same hymn sheet. None of the panalists challenged eachother - they all sang dumb on eachother comments. I am beginning to understand what the term ‘Snowflake’ means. SO where was the balance. Why will RTE not provide two more chairs for a bit of balance. I’m sure that most of the offices in the establishment would have unused chairs at that time of the night.
Re O Connor. His body language alone ‘spoke’ for him. A pity The Hon. Joe Duffy was not doing the show. We would den know what keeps Mr o Connor busy, how he is managing his accommodation, are all of the 15 pints the same color, does he walk to work or does he go by car, what’s his favorite hobby, etc , etc.

If anyone ever wants to do a Thesis on what gave rise to this class thing , then they need to go no further than to look to O Connors performance. If Class exists then I, for one, would most definitely Not want to be in his class. With his crude language, his bitterness, his broad brush statements, his attitude towards drinking , his attempt at- look at him- exercising.
I wonder where does he think the money comes from with regards to his weekly income.
He was so clear and definite in all his statements. ‘A little knowledge is a dangerous thing’ came to mind

sbsquarepants

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

You don't think that maybe that's because of peoples actual experiences with travellers?

I've had practically nothing but bad experiences with them, hugely disproportionate to the bad experiences I've had with any other group. I don't personally know anybody who wouldn't say the same - we can't all be wrong!

I don't know anybody who is racist towards any other minority group - why on earth would we all have a thing against travellers?

It is clearly down to the travellers. If they weren't such a shower of violent, thieving, trouble making bastards people would have more time for them.

That's the long and the short of it. It's not a small minority who gets the rest a bad name - trouble is just endemic with them. Anyone who has dealt with them will tell you as much - they are simply best avoided.

Connors is a prime example - he has every advantage going and he's still a fúcking asshole.

NIMAN

I didn't see the LLS, was Connors asking about his Lidl comments?

ibarelycare

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Not comparable. People’s opinions of travellers are, by and large, completely founded and based on reason and experiences. People aren’t being “racist” for no reason.

aroundthehouse

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

You don't want the Gardai as your enemy.

Hope that car is taxed John.

travellers are exempt from paying any form of tax because they are an ethnic minority

tikkahunter

Why is this imbecile getting so much air time? HE winges about how his community are perceived but has no problem taking money to play that part.

1874

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Dont travellers call themselves travellers and identify themselves as coming from the travelling community, that cant be compared to calling someone Black or a Paki. They seem to have a habit from the travellers I knew and came across of not just not saying what their names names are, but actively making a point of keeping it secret or having second names they use, before you say that doesnt happen, I lived near travellers who were exactly like that..

I dont think people who happen to be Black routinely or specifically refer to themselves as black, I would say mostly not, so while it might be wrong to refer to someone as Black it really depends on the context, I dont think Paki is anything but derogatory.

Gimme A Pound

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Comments like this are very disingenuous. And kinda meanspirited as they're more about labelling people bigots than facing up to the reality.

Not every single traveller is a violent criminal, but there is a disproportionately high level of violence and crime in their community. The horrendous things that are done by numerous travellers to settled people... are not done by black or Asian people.

RocketRaccoon

Amber Icy Machinist wrote: »

Comments like this are very disingenuous. And kinda meanspirited as they're more about labelling people bigots than facing up to the reality.

Not every single traveller is a violent criminal, but there is a disproportionately high level of violence and crime in their community. The horrendous things that are done by numerous travellers to settled people... are not done by black or Asian people.

Are you saying black people don't commit huge amounts of crime? In America? England? Moreso than white people?

Gimme A Pound

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Are you saying black people don't commit huge amounts of crime? In America? England? Moreso than white people?

But we are talking about people's experiences in Ireland.

sbsquarepants

1874 wrote: »

I dont think people who happen to be Black routinely or specifically refer to themselves as black, I would say mostly not, so while it might be wrong to refer to someone as Black it really depends on the context, I dont think Paki is anything but derogatory.

It's just short for Pakistani, it's no more derogatory than Brit or Aussie.

Gimme A Pound

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's just short for Pakistani, it's no more derogatory than Brit or Aussie.

To be fair, it is used as a slur. Directed at anyone of Asian origin, whether Indian, Pakistani, Bangledeshi etc origin.

I've no doubt there are people who use the term not meaning to insult though.

punisher5112

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

The things people get away with saying about travellers on this site is absolutely mental. I've met a few bad ones but also a lot of good ones.

Go through the posts here and replace Traveller with Black or Paki and see how quickly people would want this thread closed and people banned.

Where about I would love to know as any I've met want a fight or have come around to lift property from me.

RocketRaccoon

punisher5112 wrote: »

Where about I would love to know as any I've met want a fight or have come around to lift property from me.

Went to school with a few who I would still chat to if I saw them around town. They've never been anything but nice and polite to me.

punisher5112

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Went to school with a few who I would still chat to if I saw them around town. They've never been anything but nice and polite to me.

Wonderful they are nice to you.

They may not be so nice to others not known to them.

I'm also very annoyed at how they treat animals in a lot of cases.

RabbleRouser2k

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's just short for Pakistani, it's no more derogatory than Brit or Aussie.

It's one of these words that's become synonymous with negativity-similar to the 'N' word. 'Colonial' is another word that was perceived as negative, but as time went on, and hundreds of years later, it's never stayed negative. That's, unfortunately not the case with other words. 'Brit' still can carry negative connotations. Similar to 'Paddy'.
Unfortunately, it carries more negative power than it does anything else. And since it's used as a derogatory term towards people of a certain skin tone, no matter their country of origin, then it is a slur.

Field east wrote: »

Ryan Tubs shown up again for his ability or lack of it. His inability to challenge was , yet again , shown up. He let outrageous statements stand without any comment of any real content.
All three panelists were singing from the same hymn sheet. None of the panalists challenged eachother - they all sang dumb on eachother comments. I am beginning to understand what the term ‘Snowflake’ means. SO where was the balance. Why will RTE not provide two more chairs for a bit of balance. I’m sure that most of the offices in the establishment would have unused chairs at that time of the night.
Re O Connor. His body language alone ‘spoke’ for him. A pity The Hon. Joe Duffy was not doing the show. We would den know what keeps Mr o Connor busy, how he is managing his accommodation, are all of the 15 pints the same color, does he walk to work or does he go by car, what’s his favorite hobby, etc , etc.

If anyone ever wants to do a Thesis on what gave rise to this class thing , then they need to go no further than to look to O Connors performance. If Class exists then I, for one, would most definitely Not want to be in his class. With his crude language, his bitterness, his broad brush statements, his attitude towards drinking , his attempt at- look at him- exercising.
I wonder where does he think the money comes from with regards to his weekly income.
He was so clear and definite in all his statements. ‘A little knowledge is a dangerous thing’ came to mind

It's gotten ugly, tbh. The amount of ways there's a definite 'class' that's noticably taken over in the last number of years, seemingly subsided during the recession. People in politics are elitist, they're not looking out for the middle man. And then there's what's happening on RTE. Could anyone actually relate to Philly, Stefanie, or Connors?

Connors is a guy earning quite a pretty penning from acting, writing etc (which, due to arts not being taxed, is likely making quite a pretty penny. 10-15 pints a week, or more, is not pocket money). He's now, essentially, upper class, due to the income he's making. But similar to, say, Keith Allen, he's pretending to be working class whilst actually he's not.
Philly and Stefanie were talking about buying houses, and frugalities the common man and woman cannot identify with. Houses are a pipe dream to many now. Not unless someone dies (yes, Preissner discussed this. But she didn't go into detail to how tax often eats that inheritance up, so it's pointless).

If Denis O'Brien came on with a segment about 'how to paint your mansion in Lanzarote for less' it would have been more relatable.

Deebles McBeebles

@punisher5112 100%, they get away literally with murder when it comes to animals.

Its interesting to see the odd person pop up to defend travellers. Personally I have never had anything but hassle and its the same with people in my general area so its nice to see its not all travellers, maybe certain families.

Loves_lorries

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Are you saying black people don't commit huge amounts of crime? In America? England? Moreso than white people?

Not anything like as much as travellers here and add to that, black people in the UK and the USA are prevalent in all areas of the economy in both countries, you cannot say that about travellers here.

DChancer

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's just short for Pakistani, it's no more derogatory than Brit or Aussie.

It is and always has been a derogatory term, but sure you knew that already.

Lollipops23

I was in school with a girl who was 1st gen settled Traveller.

She was lovely, sweet and very bright. She did quite well in school, but was absent a lot.

I sat next to her in 5th Year Biology and she had a keen interest. Then one day she stopped coming to school, about midway through the year.

Found out a few months later she'd been pulled out to get married. Next time I saw her, a year later, she was 8 months pregnant.

What a waste of potential. There was time enough for marriage and babies, why did she need to sacrifice her education, something she clearly valued?

I can never get passed the Traveller treatment of women. If they even attempted to treat them equally I'd take their opinions on other matters of discrimination a bit more seriously.

yourdeadwright

I pulled a friend up one day for being " racist " towards Travellers due to some of his comments,
He replied to me, would you have a problem living next-door to a African, Pakistan, Afgan or Aisan family , I said "No of course not "
He then said would you live next-door to a traveller , and I have to say I probably wouldn't by choice, ,
I reckon they are the most persecuted people in Ireland by other Irish  , Its not right at all but at the same time how do we solve it, Its very sad in this day and age a group of people are hated or possible feared like they are it's just not right ,
But at the same time i'd be a person who wouldn't want to live beside them , so I don't know really,