School Changing Child's Name without consent

witchgirl26

OP I would honestly fight this with the school. I was put down as my Irish first name in school (against the wishes of my parents and myself) despite being told that I could keep my first name in English and just translate my surname (Gaelscoil). This caused some problems in relation to my Junior Cert & Leaving Cert being in my full Irish name in regards college application and also applying for jobs straight after who wanted the certs but didn't recognise the difference between the two.

doc_17

witchgirl26 wrote: »

OP I would honestly fight this with the school. I was put down as my Irish first name in school (against the wishes of my parents and myself) despite being told that I could keep my first name in English and just translate my surname (Gaelscoil). This caused some problems in relation to my Junior Cert & Leaving Cert being in my full Irish name in regards college application and also applying for jobs straight after who wanted the certs but didn't recognise the difference between the two.

Hang on. You went to a gaelscoil and had a problem with them wanting to put your name in Irish?

KatyMac

My surname had a 'Mc' (son of) in it and I objected to the school trying to make me a 'Ni' (daughter of). Irish translations leave a lot to be desired! I always disliked anyone messing with my name and I can see where the OP is coming from.

hullaballoo

It's very common for kids to have both parent's surname now. My kids have both, most of my friends' kids have both. It's misattributed as snobbery or outright delusions of grandeur by some people but it's about equality and respect.

There is no reason why my surname is better or preferable to my partner's and tradition isn't a good enough reason to cast her family name aside imo. Her surname is actually easier to live with so there's a chance it'll be my surname that's dropped if they make that choice.

At the end of the day, I don't think anyone really cares that much anyway.

But as has been said, the school must respect the parents' and child's wishes in relation to their name.

Widdensushi

blanch152 wrote: »

Say a Murphy-Smith marries a Ryan-O'Mahony, will the kids have the surname Murphy-Smith-Ryan-O'Mahony?

Yep, and when a Murphy - Smith-Ryan - o'mahony marries a Smith - o'mahony - Ryan - Murphy role call at schools will take till lunchtime and then you will need a department to agree the correct spelling in Irish.

witchgirl26

DabllDoYa wrote: »

Your case is very different to be fair.

I just meant to highlight that schools changing names can present difficulties in the future.

doc_17 wrote: »

Hang on. You went to a gaelscoil and had a problem with them wanting to put your name in Irish?

No not with putting my surname in Irish (which I still use on occasion) but my first name due to it being quite different to the name I was christened with. My parents were assured that this would be done and that the school was ok with it but it came to light with my Junior Cert.

d'Oracle

doc_17 wrote: »

Hang on. You went to a gaelscoil and had a problem with them wanting to put your name in Irish?

This is not uncommon.

d'Oracle

KatyMac wrote: »

My surname had a 'Mc' (son of) in it and I objected to the school trying to make me a 'Ni' (daughter of). Irish translations leave a lot to be desired! I always disliked anyone messing with my name and I can see where the OP is coming from.

It seems odd being alright with "son of" but not "daughter of".

GreeBo

bluewolf wrote: »

I never understood this 'argument' at all. oh no i have a middle name. will i wake up with 50 names tomorrow.

I dont think thats a fair comparison. True you are unlikely to give yourself another "middle" name, but someone with a daughter with a double-barrelled surname is likely to get married and have kids...do those kids have 3 surnames now? What if the father also had one, 4 names?

GreeBo

Supergurrier wrote: »

It's not a middle name, it's both parents wanting the child to retain their last name.

What if two double barrelled name people have a child and have same attitude, quadruple barrell ?

Next generation Octuple barrell ?

So on and so forth

Damn you and your speedy replies (yesterday )!

d'Oracle

RealJohn wrote: »

Double barreled surnames are just an exercise in selfishness by the parent(s), not unlike giving the child a weird Christian name or giving them a normal Christian name and then spelling it in a weird way. Unless that double barrel name is going to be Varadkar-Harris, you’re just flagging your kid as having pretentious parents with no benefit to the kid.

Your child is a person, not your status symbol.

All of that is entirely your own perception and bias.
It is also not true.

RealJohn

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont think thats a fair comparison. True you are unlikely to give yourself another "middle" name, but someone with a daughter with a double-barrelled surname is likely to get married and have kids...do those kids have 3 surnames now? What if the father also had one, 4 names?

I assume the argument would be that eventually, common sense would prevail and they’d start dropping names when it gets too cumbersome. That being said, I’d argue that if that can be done at any stage, it makes most sense to do it at the earliest possible stage, ie. before there’s so much as a double barrel.

TK1

Seriously, you rang Dept Ed, you really must have little to worry you....all you're doing is making a name for your kid at his school before he's even started? Just leave it!

RealJohn

d'Oracle wrote: »

All of that is entirely your own perception and bias.
It is also not true.

All of that is entirely your own perception and bias.
It is also not true.

d'Oracle

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont think thats a fair comparison. True you are unlikely to give yourself another "middle" name, but someone with a daughter with a double-barrelled surname is likely to get married and have kids...do those kids have 3 surnames now? What if the father also had one, 4 names?

This stuff has been around for a very long time.
How many people do you know have 3 or 4 surnames?

splinter65

Humbird wrote: »

I would like to say that I didn't ask people's opinions about double-barrel names, everybody has their own opinion. I simply asked about the school's right to change a child's name without parental consent, that was the point of my thread.
Sorry I asked, this was so unhelpful.

They’re not intending to change his name. They can’t change his name. They’re intending (and they will) to use a shortened version of his name to make it more convenient for themselves. Perfectly acceptable in my opinion.
Do you have older children?

d'Oracle

RealJohn wrote: »

All of that is entirely your own perception and bias.
It is also not true.

I know you are but what am I?

d'Oracle

TK1 wrote: »

Seriously, you rang Dept Ed, you really must have little to worry you....all you're doing is making a name for your kid at his school before he's even started? Just leave it!

It's the kids name.
The only thing leaving it does is teach the kid that authority figures can call you what they like and there isn't a thing you can do about it.

d'Oracle

Humbird wrote: »

I would like to say that I didn't ask people's opinions about double-barrel names, everybody has their own opinion. I simply asked about the school's right to change a child's name without parental consent, that was the point of my thread.
Sorry I asked, this was so unhelpful.

Stick to your guns, speak with the principal and be polite.
It's your kids name.

GreeBo

d'Oracle wrote: »

This stuff has been around for a very long time.
How many people do you know have 3 or 4 surnames?

Its *very* common in Spain & Portugal.

My girlfriend had 7 surnames, all part of her legal name and on her documentation.
I know lots of other Spanish people who have similar.

Mitch Connor

GreeBo wrote: »

Its *very* common in Spain & Portugal.

My girlfriend had 7 surnames, all part of her legal name and on her documentation.
I know lots of other Spanish people who have similar.

And would it be common for people to demand all, 7 in this case, names be used when addressing them?

evolving_doors

d'Oracle wrote: »

This stuff has been around for a very long time.
How many people do you know have 3 or 4 surnames?

Most of the Spanish people I know!

d'Oracle

GreeBo wrote: »

Its *very* common in Spain & Portugal.

My girlfriend had 7 surnames, all part of her legal name and on her documentation.
I know lots of other Spanish people who have similar.

In Spain you usually give the first surname of the father followed by the first surname of the mother. Its a little different with the aristocracy, I don't know about portugal.

When we named our kids we called them Forename WifesSurname MySurname.
The reason is my wife is proud of her surname, her achievements under her name and her family and kept her name when we got married. (Its her name and I am not a prick who is gonna act like a bloody sook over her name)

She wanted her kids to have her surname for similar reasons, so we went double.
This was a decision we made, because there was a point where we could call our kids whatever the F we liked. So that was our decision. It is not a curse on future generations of our progeny to break surname fields on webforms, its just a surname.

When and if my kids have kids, they will also arrive at a point where they will be free to call the kids whatever the F they like. Chances are they will find a compromise that doesn't lead to 4 - 8 word surnames, because of the freedom to call their kids whatever the F they like and because I hope to teach them more imagination and problem solving skills than the people on this thread who can't imagine someone leaving a bit off a name.

d'Oracle

evolving_doors wrote: »

Most of the Spanish people I know!

Spanish people typically have two surnames, the last surname of their mother followed by the last surname of their father.

spurious

Nobody is changing anyone's name.
The school wants it in a format they can manage.
First world problems.

Oscar Fingal O'Flahertie Wills Wilde.
Oscar F. O'F. W. Wilde.
Oscar Wills Wilde.
Oscar Wilde.
Wilde.
Oscar.
You with the floppy hair.

GreeBo

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And would it be common for people to demand all, 7 in this case, names be used when addressing them?

No, but it equally wouldn't be common for someone else to decide to drop names for them.

GreeBo

d'Oracle wrote: »

In Spain you usually give the first surname of the father followed by the first surname of the mother. Its a little different with the aristocracy, I don't know about portugal.

When we named our kids we called them Forename WifesSurname MySurname.
The reason is my wife is proud of her surname, her achievements under her name and her family and kept her name when we got married. (Its her name and I am not a prick who is gonna act like a bloody sook over her name)

She wanted her kids to have her surname for similar reasons, so we went double.
This was a decision we made, because there was a point where we could call our kids whatever the F we liked. So that was our decision. It is not a curse on future generations of our progeny to break surname fields on webforms, its just a surname.

When and if my kids have kids, they will also arrive at a point where they will be free to call the kids whatever the F they like. Chances are they will find a compromise that doesn't lead to 4 - 8 word surnames, because of the freedom to call their kids whatever the F they like and because I hope to teach them more imagination and problem solving skills than the people on this thread who can't imagine someone leaving a bit off a name.

I was merely answering the question of did I know anyone with more than 2 surnames, you can relax with the attitude there chief! :rolleyes:

I will point out the inconsistency in your post however, if the parents are free to call their children whatever the F they want, then its equally not up to the school to call them something different. N'est ce pas?

splinter65

GreeBo wrote: »

No, but it equally wouldn't be common for someone else to decide to drop names for them.

How will it be detrimental to this child starting out on his secondary school education, not to mention his teenage years, if the teachers shorten his elaborate moniker to something that is more manageable and practical for them? Does having this name define who he is?

RandomName2

Humbird wrote: »

Hello, we have accepted a 1st year place in a Dublin secondary school starting Sept. When I was dropping off paperwork to the school today, the school secretary told me that "they" had been talking about my child's last name which "they" think is a "mouthful" and they want to shorten it, and she asked which of the double-barrell names could be dropped.

Pretend you are an ethnic minority and that the surname is part of your cultural identity. Imagine the same person contemplating saying that a middle-eastern name was a "mouthful" that should be shortened?

GreeBo

splinter65 wrote: »

How will it be detrimental to this child starting out on his secondary school education, not to mention his teenage years, if the teachers shorten his elaborate moniker to something that is more manageable and practical for them? Does having this name define who he is?

I don't believe I said anywhere it would be detrimental to the child, but sure strawman away there chief!

What makes it elaborate exactly? Why not shorten all names then? Bartholomew can be Bart, Daniel to Dan, splinter65 to splint. Sure its only a name right?

Depends on how you define "who he is"? In many instances your name is indeed who you are.

"Name"
noun
a word or set of words by which a person or thing is known, addressed, or referred to.