School Changing Child's Name without consent

Humbird · 09-04-2018 9:22pm #1

Hello, we have accepted a 1st year place in a Dublin secondary school starting Sept. When I was dropping off paperwork to the school today, the school secretary told me that "they" had been talking about my child's last name which "they" think is a "mouthful" and they want to shorten it, and she asked which of the double-barrell names could be dropped. I said that I didn't want either of the names dropped .... she said "we'll see ...." ..... so after a pause I said that the double-barrell names had been his since birth, that they were legally his name, and also his names by common usage ..... she paused and said that well, it was a really long name when his first name was used with the double-barrell surname and that it was quite common for the school to drop one of the double-barrell names of other pupils, regardless of whether it was their legal/common-use name .... I told her that both parents would be unhappy if there was an attempt to drop part of the child's name. The silence then hung in the air till I left and the matter was not resolved.

I am SURE that a school can't just independently change a child's name without parents consent can they? I phoned the Dept. of Education but they said that they had no experience of this but said they could provide no input as its between the school and the parents.
Does anybody else have a view of this and the school's "right" to change a child's name from a double-barrell to a single surname just because they perceived the double-barrell name too long?
C

Chancer3001 · 09-04-2018 9:24pm

You phoned the department of education ??

If this isn't an obvious troll then you're a complete idiot and I pity your child

TheValeyard · 09-04-2018 9:25pm

Is it a really crappy double-barrell name or a pompus sounding one?

Supergurrier · 09-04-2018 9:25pm

Double barrelled names are stupid. Where does it end ? quadruple, octuple names ?

Chancer3001 · 09-04-2018 9:26pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Is it a really crappy double-barrell name or a pompus sounding one?

Your name is too long.

Shorten it please

TheValeyard · 09-04-2018 9:27pm

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Your name is too long.

Shorten it please

MTDTS

gordongekko · 09-04-2018 9:27pm

Gaelscoils change the pupils names from english to irish all the time so name changes are not unusual

diomed · 09-04-2018 9:27pm

I don't like hyphenated double barrel surnames.
But if it is the legal name that is the end of it.

09-04-2018 9:28pm

Supergurrier wrote: »

Double barrelled names are stupid. Where does it end ? quadruple, octuple names ?

I never understood this 'argument' at all. oh no i have a middle name. will i wake up with 50 names tomorrow.

pconn062 · 09-04-2018 9:28pm

Pick your battles.

Humbird · 09-04-2018 9:30pm

Hi, there is no change of his name from English to Irish. The school want to alter his name by dropping half of it. Surely they have no right? Do they?

Supergurrier · 09-04-2018 9:31pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I never understood this 'argument' at all. oh no i have a middle name. will i wake up with 50 names tomorrow.

It's not a middle name, it's both parents wanting the child to retain their last name.

What if two double barrelled name people have a child and have same attitude, quadruple barrell ?

Next generation Octuple barrell ?

So on and so forth

diomed · 09-04-2018 9:31pm

Perhaps the computer name field does not take the full name.

SmartinMartin · 09-04-2018 9:32pm

Double barrel names in Ireland are pure fcuking pretentiousness. Awful.

For Forks Sake · 09-04-2018 9:33pm

OP is Ross O'Carroll-Kellys mother, right?

Agricola · 09-04-2018 9:33pm

"Andrew Murphy............."

"Here"

"Amanda O' Leary..........."

"Here"

"Bartholomew Von Steingarten-Pifflefank III"

blanch152 · 09-04-2018 9:34pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I never understood this 'argument' at all. oh no i have a middle name. will i wake up with 50 names tomorrow.

Say a Murphy-Smith marries a Ryan-O'Mahony, will the kids have the surname Murphy-Smith-Ryan-O'Mahony?

Harry Palmr · 09-04-2018 9:37pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Double barrel names in Ireland are pure fcuking pretentiousness. Awful.

They'll become more common in the future as women refuse to be chattels and more divorced people who have children remarry

Humbird · 09-04-2018 9:39pm

I would like to say that I didn't ask people's opinions about double-barrel names, everybody has their own opinion. I simply asked about the school's right to change a child's name without parental consent, that was the point of my thread.
Sorry I asked, this was so unhelpful.

meeeeh · 09-04-2018 9:39pm

And this is the type of a problem you look for the advice on in After Hours....

I just realised my school was a disgrace. They would just call us by our names and no surname (unless there were two with the same name).

Supergurrier · 09-04-2018 9:39pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They'll become more common in the future as women refuse to be chattels and more divorced people who have children remarry

The same women who will then moan when their brothers wife refuses to take their name :pac:

SmartinMartin · 09-04-2018 9:40pm

You asked in AH, what the hell did you expect.

diomed · 09-04-2018 9:40pm

They did not change the child's name.
They want to use a shorter version.

strandroad · 09-04-2018 9:40pm

Humbird wrote: »

I would like to say that I didn't ask people's opinions about double-barrel names, everybody has their own opinion. I simply asked about the school's right to change a child's name without parental consent, that was the point of my thread.
Sorry I asked, this was so unhelpful.

You may want to try in Teaching and Lecturing section instead.

Wesser · 09-04-2018 9:42pm

In fairness... It is after hours. Not the parenting section.
I think everyone knows that you cannot legally change his name.

Nothing speaks a difficult parent like a child with a double barrel name......
Perfect example here... calling the dept of edu... could have been sorted easily locally......

Daithi101 · 09-04-2018 9:43pm

Humbird wrote:

I would like to say that I didn't ask people's opinions about double-barrel names, everybody has their own opinion. I simply asked about the school's right to change a child's name without parental consent, that was the point of my thread. Sorry I asked, this was so unhelpful.

Think the person in the Junior Cert forum who told you to post in AH was unhelpful.

This is going to be comic gold.

byhookorbycrook · 09-04-2018 9:45pm

gordongekko wrote: »

Gaelscoils change the pupils names from english to irish all the time so name changes are not unusual

Not all the time, our school ask the parent/s what first name they want their child to be known as, surnames are in Irish. Previously it was the tradition that all children were called by their full Irish names in all primary schools throughout the country, but that seems to have petered out in many schools.

Alf Veedersane · 09-04-2018 9:45pm

Brazilian footballers were given way cooler names than their actual names. Imagine if Pele's oul wan had kicked up the same fuss!!!

ED E · 09-04-2018 9:46pm

How many syllables OP?

meeeeh · 09-04-2018 9:47pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Not all the time, our school ask the parent/s what first name they want their child to be known as, surnames are in Irish. Previously it was the tradition that all children were called by their full Irish names in all primary schools throughout the country, but that seems to have petered out in many schools.

What do you do when kids have Polish, Indian, German, Chinese names...

stimpson · 09-04-2018 9:48pm

Change his name by deed poll to something they won’t like. Satan O’Hitler should do the trick.

This will have the added benefit of not sounding quite so ridiculous as a double barrel name.

WoollyRedHat · 09-04-2018 9:48pm

Id say you have a case, threaten to sue and double barrel them to oblivion.

For Forks Sake · 09-04-2018 9:49pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Brazilian footballers were given way cooler names than their actual names. Imagine if Pele's oul wan had kicked up the same fuss!!!

Pele's Ma: you must call my son Edson Arantes do Nascimento
School: Not a f*cking chance, Pele it is...

Fighting Tao · 09-04-2018 9:50pm

Humbird wrote: »

I would like to say that I didn't ask people's opinions about double-barrel names, everybody has their own opinion. I simply asked about the school's right to change a child's name without parental consent, that was the point of my thread.
Sorry I asked, this was so unhelpful.

You asked in AH. If you want serious discussion on something so trivial you need to find a better forum for it.

Martina1991 · 09-04-2018 9:57pm

diomed wrote:

They did not change the child's name. They want to use a shorter version.

+1
I don't know what's the big deal here.
His name will be on the roll of attendance, report cards, whatever.

They are not legally changing his name.

09-04-2018 9:57pm

Humbird wrote: »

I said that I didn't want either of the names dropped .... she said "we'll see ...." ..... so after a pause I said that the double-barrell names had been his since birth, that they were legally his name, and also his names by common usage ..... she paused and said that well, it was a really long name when his first name was used with the double-barrell surname and that it was quite common for the school to drop one of the double-barrell names of other pupils, regardless of whether it was their legal/common-use name .... I told her that both parents would be unhappy if there was an attempt to drop part of the child's name. The silence then hung in the air till I left and the matter was not resolved.

I am SURE that a school can't just independently change a child's name without parents consent can they? I phoned the Dept. of Education but they said that they had no experience of this but said they could provide no input as its between the school and the parents.
Does anybody else have a view of this and the school's "right" to change a child's name from a double-barrell to a single surname just because they perceived the double-barrell name too long?
C

First, you're 100% correct to feel as you do. The school secretary was 100% incorrect to not accept your stated preference for both names. That is your prerogative, and no school (or ignoramus online trying to impose their preference upon you) can take that from you. It's an issue of basic respect; people have many reasons for choosing a double name and it really is nobody else's business. Not accepting somebody's name is also an issue of eye-raising stupidcúntism: for instance, asking Irish people with names in Irish: "What's that in English?" Never mind the respect; the mind boggles at the mentality.

Second, it was also very inexperienced (to be kind about it) of the secretary: in the majority of cases the child will gradually choose which name to highlight in their day-to-day school life. While both names will remain on the official record, for convenience the child will often be commonly known by the name of their choosing. This can mean that one brother could be Seán Murphy and the other Liam O'Connor but on the school record they are Murphy O'Connor.

Beasty · 09-04-2018 10:05pm

Is it not just the words "Healey" and "Ray" joined with a hyphen that they object to?

How Soon Is Now · 09-04-2018 10:08pm

The kid is starting secondary school hes gonna be called all kinds of ****e by the ones in there class anyway!

Shortening it might actually draw less attention to the kid!

Vladimir Poontang · 09-04-2018 10:12pm

There is really only one possible solution to all of this OP

Burn the school to the ground.*

*That's a joke. Please don't. I feel like I need to state this.

evolving_doors · 09-04-2018 10:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First, you're 100% correct to feel as you do. The school secretary was 100% incorrect to not accept your stated preference for both names. That is your prerogative, and no school (or ignoramus online trying to impose their preference upon you) can take that from you. It's an issue of basic respect; people have many reasons for choosing a double name and it really is nobody else's business. Not accepting somebody's name is also an issue of eye-raising stupidcúntism: for instance, asking Irish people with names in Irish: "What's that in English?" Never mind the respect; the mind boggles at the mentality.

Second, it was also very inexperienced (to be kind about it) of the secretary: in the majority of cases the child will gradually choose which name to highlight in their day-to-day school life. While both names will remain on the official record, for convenience the child will often be commonly known by the name of their choosing. This can mean that one brother could be Seán Murphy and the other Liam O'Connor but on the school record they are Murphy O'Connor.

In our school we just go exactly with birth cert. Unless there's a divorce, or child protecting issue.
It's not unheard of for 1 divorced parent to rewrite history a bit !
We have a good few double barrels e.g. with a Spanish kid.
When the year starts teachers will do whatever the parents want anyway.

I think the Secretary was just missing some courtesy in giving a reason OP. Tell them you make an appointment with the principal to explain the policy.

freshpopcorn · 09-04-2018 10:15pm

This is why consent classes are needed in schools!

jaxxx · 09-04-2018 10:15pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The kid is starting secondary school hes gonna be called all kinds of ****e by the ones in there class anyway!

Shortening it might actually draw less attention to the kid!

Bullpoop. I have a double barrel name and never had a single occurence of mocking or name calling whenn in school, and that was just 10-15 years ago. That was a single sex boys school too, and I was far from the popular class.

09-04-2018 10:19pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They'll become more common in the future as women refuse to be chattels and more divorced people who have children remarry

Or maybe guys will insist on it since it's the last time they are properly entitled to any say in anything in their kids' life.

How Soon Is Now · 09-04-2018 10:20pm

jaxxx wrote: »

Bullpoop. I have a double barrel name and never had a single occurence of mocking or name calling whenn in school, and that was just 10-15 years ago. That was a single sex boys school too, and I was far from the popular class.

So no one had a nickname for you based on your surname? Was a fairly common thing in any school or even college i was in.

SmartinMartin · 09-04-2018 10:23pm

I'd say it was bullpoop.&#55357;&#56833;

The turd.

Noveight · 09-04-2018 10:26pm

They obviously shortened it for ease of record keeping, quite understandable.

bodice ripper · 09-04-2018 10:30pm

When I went to primary school here, back in the mists of time, they insisted on using an Irish version of my name. It drove me mental for a few reasons: 1 it wasn't a gaelscoil, 2 you don't translate proper nouns, 3 my name isn't Irish and doesn't have an Irish version.

I refused to answer to it. Granted, I grew up to be an appalling brat, but a brat who is not sorry.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-04-2018 10:31pm

A name is a name and while I understand their point, I don't entirely agree with it. Fight them on it OP

BBDBB · 09-04-2018 10:36pm

Just hope that the classmates dont pick a 'new' name for your kid
If theres any group of people able to diminish a mouthful of a name into something easy to yell across a playground or class its the Childs peers

RacoonQueen · 09-04-2018 10:36pm

Humbird wrote: »

Hi, there is no change of his name from English to Irish. The school want to alter his name by dropping half of it. Surely they have no right? Do they?

He could just not answer to what they 'shorten' it to...lets us Ross O'Carroll-Kelly as example since already mentioned on thread.
They call out Ross O'Carroll - he doesn't answer
They call out Ross Kelly - he doesn't answer
They call out Ross O'Carroll-Kelly - he answers

bucketybuck · 09-04-2018 10:41pm

I think you should go to war with the school, your kid will just love that.

And this is about the kids wishes after all.

Isn't it... :rolleyes:

School Changing Child's Name without consent

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