Good news everybody, the Pope says Hell doesn't exist!

super_furry

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/pope-francis-abolishes-hell-saying-souls-of-unrepentant-sinners-will-simply-disappear-pwlv6l667?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER

In a move that will enrage conservative Catholics, the Pontiff told La Repubblica that the souls of unrepentant sinners were not punished in the afterlife, but simply disappeared.

“Hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of the souls of sinners exists,” he told Eugenio Scalfari, a 93-year-old atheist philosopher, during a conversation in the Vatican.


So if you're a really bollox you just kind of disappear when you die he reckons. Probably the first Pope to agree with the atheists but it's kind of disappointing to know that Hitler, Josef Fritzel and the man who came up with those NRC, taxi, taxi, taxi adverts and all those other bad bastards won't be boiling in lava forever.

Bredabe

super_furry wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/pope-francis-abolishes-hell-saying-souls-of-unrepentant-sinners-will-simply-disappear-pwlv6l667?CMP=Sprkr-_-Editorial-_-thetimes-_-Unspecified-_-TWITTER

In a move that will enrage conservative Catholics, the Pontiff told La Repubblica that the souls of unrepentant sinners were not punished in the afterlife, but simply disappeared.

“Hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of the souls of sinners exists,” he told Eugenio Scalfari, a 93-year-old atheist philosopher, during a conversation in the Vatican.


So if you're a really bollox you just kind of disappear when you die he reckons. Probably the first Pope to agree with the atheists but it's kind of disappointing to know that Hitler, Josef Fritzel and the man who came up with those NRC, taxi, taxi, taxi adverts and all those other bad bastards won't be boiling in lava forever.

My late mother would be devastated by this, she loved to threaten us with how the devil would do this and that to us if we were bold.
BUT if the church has lied to believers on this, then what else have they lied about? and how can they prove any of this?

super_furry

Think that once they decided that limbo was no longer a place that dead unbaptised babies were dumped out to, then everything was up for grabs.

kneemos

Poof.

Graces7

That idea is far from new. It was in literature as far back as Christopher Marlowe, in "Dr Faustus"

A far more scary idea than pitchforks etc.. shudders

Gerry T

Bredabe wrote: »

My late mother would be devastated by this, she loved to threaten us with how the devil would do this and that to us if we were bold.
BUT if the church has lied to believers on this, then what else have they lied about? and how can they prove any of this?

Well, first they have to prove Jesus was...how do I put this...that he was Jesus the saviour and disher out of miracles. Once that's done its plain sailing proving there's no Hell.

daheff

Bredabe wrote: »

My late mother would be devastated by this, she loved to threaten us with how the devil would do this and that to us if we were bold.
BUT if the church has lied to believers on this, then what else have they lied about? and how can they prove any of this?

but don't liars go to hell?? So they are all going to hell (or just disappearing afterwards)?

super_furry

daheff wrote: »

but don't liars go to hell?? So they are all going to hell (or just disappearing afterwards)?

Only if they don't say sorry for lying. Say sorry and you're sorted.

D3V!L

super_furry wrote: »

Think that once they decided that limbo was no longer a place that dead unbaptised babies were dumped out to, then everything was up for grabs.

Everyone knows that they end up in septic tanks out the back of a convent :rolleyes:

hullaballoo

D3V!L wrote: »

Everyone knows that they end up in septic tanks out the back of a convent :rolleyes:

Does this news not put you out of a job?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Graces7 wrote: »

That idea is far from new. It was in literature as far back as Christopher Marlowe, in "Dr Faustus"

A far more scary idea than pitchforks etc.. shudders

Oh I’d take nothingness over eternal torture.

Hitman3000

Sounds convienent, that will comfort a lot of the religious who know they have no chance of heaven, kiddy fiddlers are barred. Nah we are all f**ked no heaven either. The guy in the dress can't admitt that though.

valoren

FFS now the classic retort "Go to Hell!" has lost all meaning

D3V!L

hullaballoo wrote: »

Does this news not put you out of a job?

They've just given me a nice redundancy package. Something about my role no longer existing.

.......

This post has been deleted.

the purple tin

I think the pope is shooting himself in the foot here. The threat of eternal damnation has been the RC church's ace in the hole for years.
Also where did Jesus go for the few days before he was resurrected if not Hell.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Hitman3000

the purple tin wrote:

Also where did Jesus go for the few days before he was resurrected if not Hell.

On the lash with the 'boy's', 3 day weekend 'yeah baby'!

valoren

D3V!L wrote: »

They've just given me a nice redundancy package. Something about my role no longer existing.

Considering the earth and universe is 10,000 years old based on Young Earth Creationism then at your base rate of $6.66 per hour as the pitchman for Evil and considering you worked 40 hours week you should be entitled to a severance package (based on 2 weeks pay per year of service) of $5,328,000.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hell exists, but as a state of mind not an actual metaphysical location!

valoren

I take it that Pope Francis has never been to Derby City.

the purple tin

valoren wrote: »

I take it that Pope Francis has never been to Derby City.

or Moate.

somefeen

valoren wrote: »

Considering the earth and universe is 10,000 years old based on Young Earth Creationism then at your base rate of $6.66 per hour as the pitchman for Evil and considering you worked 40 hours week you should be entitled to a severance package (based on 2 weeks pay per year of service) of $5,328,000.

I thought prince of darkness would be a management pay grade? Doesn't he have minions and a large facility under his supervision?

super_furry

Hitman3000 wrote: »

On the lash with the 'boy's', 3 day weekend 'yeah baby'!

Yeah but not Good Friday because it's only now that the pubs are opening.

Reati

This is a non event and the Vatican will go into damage control how it's a misquote.

This changes the dogma for them not too.

pleas advice

hullaballoo wrote: »

Does this news not put you out of a job?

The greatest story ever told, or somethin

Hitman3000

super_furry wrote:

Yeah but not Good Friday because it's only now that the pubs are opening.

They went to the offie on Holy Thursday, it wasn't a Good Friday it was a Great Friday. You should have seen the 'Last Supper' after party.

Red_Wake

Surely he'd have to cite some religious texts to make this much of a volte face.

Also, can any religion bods tell me how much Hell is referenced in the Bible itself?

Hitman3000

Graces7 wrote:

A far more scary idea than pitchforks etc.. shudders

A pitchfork up the ass for eternity or oblivion? Not a hard choice tbh. Don't worry it's all b.s. we all just go 'poof'. No evidence to the contrary.

brainfreeze

super_furry wrote: »

In a move that will enrage conservative Catholics, the Pontiff told La Repubblica that the souls of unrepentant sinners were not punished in the afterlife, but simply disappeared.

Disclaimer: I'm an atheist, and a bit rusty so might be talking nonsense, however:

That's always been Catholic Doctrine. Hell as a physical place like a punishment dimension took off in later times borrowing from other religions. It means a state without God. So for non-humans like Angels (fallen) etc, they can no longer communicate or feel God. They have been cut off, they are in "Hell". For humans you are simply dead.

Hell for humans always meant death. When you are in hell you are just dead. No longer alive or in the grace of God, because you're.. dead. When Jesus descended to "hell" on Good Friday until Easter Sunday, he was just.. dead. This concept of Jesus going to a eternal torture dimension karate chopping demons for three days is simply because the definition of what Hell is changed in a modern context, but that was never the doctrine.

Dead Humans that are in heaven with God and the Angels, are called Saints. Despite the church naming saints (which is basically saying we think this person was so good there is 99% they will get to go to heaven), there is only one confirmed Saint in Catholic/Christian doctrine, the Good Thief. Everyone else is just a dead corpse in the ground as far as we know.

CruelCoin

First he says evolution is real, then he accepts the big bang (though states god did it), now this.

He's gonna be assasinated within the year. You read it here first. Some westboro cousin ****er is going to take a shot.

TheValeyard

CruelCoin wrote: »

First he says evolution is real, then he accepts the big bang (though states god did it), now this.

He's gonna be assasinated within the year. You read it here first. Some westboro cousin ****er is going to take a shot.

They havent had a problem with big bang or evolution in a long time now

Hitman3000

CruelCoin wrote:

First he says evolution is real, then he accepts the big bang (though states god did it), now this.

I think he's building towards finally admitting along with the rest of the church that it's all really a load of bollix that got slightly out of hand, they didn't think so many would fall for the fairy tale.

brainfreeze

CruelCoin wrote: »

First he says evolution is real, then he accepts the big bang (though states god did it)

Every pope has stated evolution is real since 1950, that's not an issue. It's American evangelicals and certain American protestant dominations that have an issue with evolution. The Catholic Church accepted it 68 years ago. He just reiterated those comments, they were not revolutionary.

The big bang was never an issue either. It was a catholic priest that came up with it and it was accepted by the Pope in 1951. Genesis has been seen as metaphorical by the church for literally hundreds of years.

corner of hells

Does he not mean Leitrim instead of just disappearing ?

Ipso

brainfreeze wrote: »

Every pope has stated evolution is real since 1950, that's not an issue. It's American evangelicals and certain American protestant dominations that have an issue with evolution. The Catholic Church accepted it 68 years ago. He just reiterated those comments, they were not revolutionary.

The big bang was never an issue either. It was a catholic priest that came up with it and it was accepted by the Pope in 1951. Genesis has been seen as metaphorical by the church for literally hundreds of years.

If there is no Adam and Eve, where does that leave original sin? After all that's why Jesus dies to save us, from God apparently even though he loves us.

topper75

So the logical conclusion of that for baddies would be -

"In for a penny, in for a pound"

I mean, disappearing is disappearing - there are no graduations of that. Right? :-)

brainfreeze

Ipso wrote: »

If there is no Adam and Eve, where does that leave original sin? After all that's why Jesus dies to save us, from God apparently even though he loves us.

Don't try and make sense of a doctrine that has changed over thousands of years (from Judaism) with hundreds of authors. :pac:

However they (the church) stated (for hundreds of years) there doesn't have to be a literal Adam and Eve, It's just an origin story about how the first humans sinned against God and that somehow changed us forever. Hence why Pope Pius XII stated evolution doesn't interfere with this notion because it was never literal in the first place.

Anyone who has a heavy investment in a philosophical belief system will always do mental gymnastics to make that philosophy fit into a new understanding of the world, rather than discarding it like the should.

However if you'd allow me to go on a slight side thought for a second, I even believe the Christian belief in Jesus saving us from Original Sin is another example of this mental gymnastics to make narrative fit when the original didn't.

Jesus was supposed to be the Jewish Messiah. The Jewish Messiah was supposed to be a man (not divine), a warrior that would overthrow the enemies of the Israelites (in his time, the Romans), and reunite the 13 lost tribes of Israel. Jesus did none of these things, he didn't reunite the lost tribes, he didn't save them from the Romans. He claimed to be the Messiah, got a following, and then got executed. Doesn't really tick the boxes of the Jewish Messiah.

Unless you change the goal posts and change the rules. Then you say his death wasn't in vain, he "saved" us from Original Sin from Adam and eve,that's why his death now made sense, that's what the savior was "really" supposed to be about. All that other stuff he didn't do? Don't worry about it, he came back from the dead and went to heaven, and he'll be back to finish what he started. How could he do this? Ah see he wasn't just a man, he was divine. God incarnate. That's how.

Saving the world from Original Sin isn't even mentioned in the Old Testament as a requirement from the Messiah. Neither is having magical powers due to be the son of God. It's not a thing.

the purple tin

brainfreeze wrote: »

Disclaimer: I'm an atheist, and a bit rusty so might be talking nonsense, however:

That's always been Catholic Doctrine. Hell as a physical place like a punishment dimension took off in later times borrowing from other religions. It means a state without God. So for non-humans like Angels (fallen) etc, they can no longer communicate or feel God. They have been cut off, they are in "Hell". For humans you are simply dead.

Hell for humans always meant death. When you are in hell you are just dead. No longer alive or in the grace of God, because you're.. dead. When Jesus descended to "hell" on Good Friday until Easter Sunday, he was just.. dead. This concept of Jesus going to a eternal torture dimension karate chopping demons for three days is simply because the definition of what Hell is changed in a modern context, but that was never the doctrine.

Dead Humans that are in heaven with God and the Angels, are called Saints. Despite the church naming saints (which is basically saying we think this person was so good there is 99% they will get to go to heaven), there is only one confirmed Saint in Catholic/Christian doctrine, the Good Thief. Everyone else is just a dead corpse in the ground as far as we know.

Elijah and Enoch would be two more. Mary is a possible third depending on which christian sect you ask.

brainfreeze

the purple tin wrote: »

[/B]Elijah and Enoch would be two more. Mary is a possible third depending on which christian sect you ask.

Ah, they of course count. I should have clarified saying dead humans/humans that have gone to heaven after death.

the purple tin

Hitman3000 wrote: »

On the lash with the 'boy's', 3 day weekend 'yeah baby'!

13 glasses of water please barman... oh and could you use wine glasses please.;)

the purple tin

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I think he's building towards finally admitting along with the rest of the church that it's all really a load of bollix that got slightly out of hand, they didn't think so many would fall for the fairy tale.

Could be. St Malachy prophesied that the current pope will be the last one ever, so who knows.

branie2

The vision of Hell at Fatima, as experienced by the three children, proves otherwise

bodice ripper

Was he wearing his magic hat while he said it? I don't think it counts unless he was wearing his magic hat.

diomed

the purple tin wrote: »

or Moate.

Someone drove out of a side road and into my car in Moate.
He said "let's call it 50/50".
Bypassing that corner of hell was a good move.

jaxxx

The pope can sniff my flatulence! Pr*ck! If he wants to come here he can f*cking pay for it himself same as any other tourist, why should we foot the bill?!

I hope hell does exist and I look forward to the day I meet them all there so I can shove them up each others h*les!

valoren

valoren wrote: »

FFS now the classic retort "Go to Hell!" has lost all meaning

If you're an existentialist philosopher, or Samuel Beckett, it has probably just got infinitely more meaningful.

buried

Jokes on him.

We're all currently in it.

Including him.

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

First he says evolution is real...

In fairness, the RCC has accepted evolution since at least Humani generis in 1950.

Avatar MIA

valoren wrote: »

Considering the earth and universe is 10,000 years old based on Young Earth Creationism then at your base rate of $6.66 per hour as the pitchman for Evil and considering you worked 40 hours week you should be entitled to a severance package (based on 2 weeks pay per year of service) of $5,328,000.

You left out the final week add on :pac: You've just stiffed the Devil out of €266.40, sucks to be you.

Ally Dick

Out of the many billions of stars, galaxies and solar systems in the universe, we have been chosen by a celestial being as the ones who will be saved at the end of our lives? Hmm. I believe that something made the universe, but I haven't seen any evidence that they give a damn about what happens on Earth. Could God be just like a giant chicken laying eggs/planets all over the place?