Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

GreeBo

iamwhoiam wrote: »

How do you know how I would have answered that post ? I have an opinion on the girls behaviour but I am not happy to discuss it right now on a public forum to be honest . But don't presume to know what I think

Sorry, I will endeavour to prefix all of my posts with "Trigger Warning"

doh, I forgot this time.

Lux23

Wibbs wrote: »

never heard that one before L.

w.

Well, that was one of the texts they sent, so it's interesting to me that you're defending their language and attitude towards women when you don't even know what it is.

Mr.H

irishrebe wrote: »

It's not even just historical though, is it? It's 2018 and women are STILL told not to get drunk, not to walk home alone, all these measures so as not to get raped. When women actually have all the same privileges men do, then let's talk about 'double standards' when it comes to graphic sex talk.

So your saying you should stay safe????? You realise you are talking sh1t yea?

Women are told not to walk home at night alone as its dangerous. Men are told likewise. While women might get raped, men might get attacked. Either way its pretty stupid idea to walk home alone at night.

Women are not told not to get drunk. People are told not to get drunk!!

Graphic sex talk I have already proven happens both ways. Maybe not in snobby ave. but in the real world it does.

Plus if you claim to be this upper class one, then you have absolutely nothing going against you. I know this other girl who is a feminst. Talks rubbish about white privilege and the male patriarchy. She was given a house by her grandmother that the family forgot they even had. Oh yea here is 10 acres of land and a brand new house we forgot we had lying around here in Mayo.

Women have the same privileges men do. With a lot more protection

GreeBo

Weepsie wrote: »

The evidence was flawed.

The 4 lads all had some glaring inconsistencies, as. At times it came across rehearsed and they got mixed up.

Jackson's testimony differed from even the key eye witness who all of this hinged on in the end.

"Didn't look distressed" is pure b0ll0cks too, given it was likely a split second sort of thing.

Of course it was rehearsed....you dont honestly think anyone goes in front of a jury without rehearsing what they are going to say do you?!

You dont think the woman had rehearsed what she was going to say with the CPS?

Mr.H

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

#

I think you know where you went wrong with this argument but you have dug in too deep and do not want to admit you have made yourself look silly.

Presumed innocent yes and as it should be
Proven to be innocent? No.

Does the case prove they did not rape her? Noooooooooo Only you thinks this.
The presumption is innocent, the role of the court is to find them guilty or not guilty.
A not guilty verdict is not "proof" of innocents. Their innocents never had to be proven in the first place.

I will say it again, if they actually had to prove their innocents they would be in jail right now as would 99% of rape accusations.

I will keep digging damn it. I will reach China before I stop. Never admit defeat

irishrebe

Wibbs wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

It's hilarious how you completely disregard the power imbalance which has existed for millennia. Women WERE (and are, in much of the world) basically nothing more than objects to be traded and possessed. Hence why it is so jarring to hear a woman dehumanised in that way. Men have NEVER been objects for women.

Feminist "history", sorry Herstory in action.  As usual it's only part of the story and tremendously simplistic. And if you think men have never been objects for women maybe have another read of the Bronte type narratives where the women are obsessed with the size of their potential suitors wallets and their social position. That's a narrative that's as old as the hills. Then again if it's not women are always victims it doesn't exist.

Lux23 wrote: »

there were more flutes in the bedroom that the 12th of July.

never heard that one before L.

irishrebe wrote: »

This is male privilege in full view. Ignoring the glaring elephant in the room - the power imbalance. It's like men who dismiss women's complaints about being groped in nightclubs  by saying women grope them too. Yes, maybe they do, but it's not remotely the same, is it? Men don't grow up feeling objectified by women. Men don't go out and worry about getting too drunk and being sexually assaulted by a woman. But you're so settled into your victim status as a put-upon and long suffering white male that you're just not going to get it, are you?

"male privilege" eh? Here we go... Going by the averages as a man we'll die younger than women, die way more by our own hand, are more likely to be homeless, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely to be lower paid before kids come along, are more likely to be alcoholics, less likely to have a social safety net and support that women often take for granted and a long list on top. Jaysus we must be doing this privilege thing wrong.  

Though I have to say that you apparently a feminist have the monumental brass neck to use the term "victim status" applied to men with zero sense of irony is truly hilarious :pac: and demonstrates your completely blinkered third hand feminist worldview.

You really must be doing the privilege thing wrong, since almost all the men I know are having a whale of a time. Must really suck to be born with so much privilege and still fail. Ouch. Go back to your Red Pill boards and continue griping about women being allowed to have opinions now.

Wibbs

irishrebe wrote: »

Women are treated like absolute sh*t for millennia and that was fine. Couldn't vote until relatively recently, couldn't work, still can't choose to abort a pregnancy. A small group of men suffer an injustice in the form of a few people protesting the result of a rape trial for a few hours and men are up in arms and foaming at the mouth about 'feminazis'? And the woman are the hysterical ones?

Yeah, those women are. As for your list, you do realise that until relatively recently the common man didn't have the vote either and in most countries of the west the common man got the vote just before or at the same time as the common woman? Never mind that the common man was treated with just as much contempt as the common woman. Indeed one could argue at times their lot was worse. One reason why more female genetic lines survive down to today is that so many men died or were killed before they had kids. Men were essentially arrow and then bullet stoppers for various elites throughout history. That and their muscle power was their value. Women were valued for their reproductive status. Not so great, but at least they were more protected because of it. All that doesn't fit your politic though. Women are always agentless victims and it's always men's fault.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

You really must be doing the privilege thing wrong, since almost all the men I know are having a whale of a time. Must really suck to be born with so much privilege and still fail. Ouch. Go back to your Red Pill boards and continue griping about women being allowed to have opinions now.

Must be difficult to have a superiority AND a victim complex at the same time. Well done petal.

wexie

Mr.H wrote: »

So your saying you should stay safe????? You realise you are talking sh1t yea?

Women are told not to walk home at night alone as its dangerous. Men are told likewise. While women might get raped, men might get attacked. Either way its pretty stupid idea to walk home alone at night.

Women are not told not to get drunk. People are told not to get drunk!!

This whole argument that somehow, if you tell a bloke to take some responsibility for his personal safety and welfare it's good advice but if you tell a woman it's 'victim shaming' really grinds my gears.

Yes in an ideal world men wouldn't get robbed when on the way home alone pisht late at night and in that same ideal world women shouldn't have a care in the world walking home alone late at night equally pisht....

We don't live in an ideal world, deal with it however you see fit but don't moan when someone tries to tell you to be safe and sensible

Mr.H

irishrebe wrote: »

No, not as their main purpose in life, no. And I didn't say men liked being groped. Learn to read.

So now I cant read?

irishrebe wrote: »

This is male privilege in full view. Ignoring the glaring elephant in the room - the power imbalance. It's like men who dismiss women's complaints about being groped in nightclubs  by saying women grope them too. Yes, maybe they do, but it's not remotely the same, is it? Men don't grow up feeling objectified by women. Men don't go out and worry about getting too drunk and being sexually assaulted by a woman. But you're so settled into your victim status as a put-upon and long suffering white male that you're just not going to get it, are you?

You did say it wasnt the same thing?

So why isnt it the same thing??

Lux23

Deleted User wrote: »

Must be difficult to have a superiority AND a victim complex at the same time. Well done petal.

Why did you call her petal?

VinLieger

Look at this ****

https://www.change.org/p/irfu-conduct-a-review-of-jackson-olding-macilroy-and-harrison-s-behaviour?recruiter=22109171&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=autopublish

Mcilroy played under 20's for ireland and never got a senior contract, Harrison has not played rugby since college and never had any affiliation with the IRFU, these morons need to get their heads out their arses. Also the IRFU and Ulster Rugby announced immediately after the verdict that they were conducting reviews.

Idiots!

ShowMeTheCash

Mr.H wrote: »

I will keep digging damn it. I will reach China before I stop. Never admit defeat

You are on the correct side of the argument but are making incorrect statements around the law.

All you are doing is making it easy for the #ibelieve brigade to beat you around the head with your lack on knowledge on law and making yourself look foolish.

Mr.H

Mr.H wrote: »

So now I cant read?



You did say it wasnt the same thing?

So why isnt it the same thing??

Power imbalance or some other bull****

yourdeadwright

facehugger99 wrote: »

Lux23 wrote: »

None of us knows what happened in that room apart from those that were there. But what we do know is that at least three of the defendants definitely have seriously disgusting attitudes towards women, and as a proud Irish woman I would be ashamed to see them in an Irish jersey again. I've heard men talk like that; I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it is the wrong message to send to the young boys and girls who look up to people like this.

I'd be shocked and disgusted to see either of them in an Irish jersey. In fact I'd burn my jersey and neither attend or watch any more Ireland matches.

Don't think it will ever come to that though.

Regardless of the verdict (most likely correct form a legal standpoint), their behavior and treatment of a drunk teenager was horrific. No way should they be allowed represent our country.

Why didn't you stop watching after Murray and Zebo where accused of the same thing a few years back ?

irishrebe

Mr.H wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

It's not even just historical though, is it? It's 2018 and women are STILL told not to get drunk, not to walk home alone, all these measures so as not to get raped. When women actually have all the same privileges men do, then let's talk about 'double standards' when it comes to graphic sex talk.

So your saying you should stay safe????? You realise you are talking sh1t yea?

Women are told not to walk home at night alone as its dangerous. Men are told likewise. While women might get raped, men might get attacked. Either way its pretty stupid idea to walk home alone at night.

Women are not told not to get drunk. People are told not to get drunk!!

Graphic sex talk I have already proven happens both ways. Maybe not in snobby ave. but in the real world it does.

Plus if you claim to be this upper class one, then you have absolutely nothing going against you. I know this other girl who is a feminst. Talks rubbish about white privilege and the male patriarchy. She was given a house by her grandmother that the family forgot they even had. Oh yea here is 10 acres of land and a brand new house we forgot we had lying around here in Mayo.

Women have the same privileges men do. With a lot more protection

Take the story I posted earlier, about a guy who pressured me to let him into my flat so he could use the loo and he made a move on me, quite aggressively. Would you as a man have anywhere near the same worries and concerns I would, if a woman asked you the same? Would you be worried that she could overpower and rape you, already rehearsing how you could explain to the Guards why you let a stranger into your home? Or would you just let her in to have a p1ss, without thinking about it? 
You know, some of my black friends have a terrible time with the police. They live in fear of being stopped and searched or even assaulted because of the colour of their skin. I as a white person have never had a bother. I don't see a policeman and feel fear. Should I tell my black friends to stop being so hysterical and get over themselves? Or realise that our realities are very different?

Oh and by the way, I'm from Clondalkin. I don't conflate class with income and social status, the way you do.

Andrew Beef

These men are now the victims; their lives have been ruined by uproven allegations. This debacle is an advert for fully private court cases which only become public if the accused are found guilty.

With regard to the trial itself, the salient and most relevant evidence came from Dara Florence; she was sober and testified that she witnessed a non-menacing consensual threesome. That was the beginning and the end of this case.

The next step should be financial restitution for the lads; they have fallen foul of the great legal swindle; whether they sell their stories or pursue libel/slander cases, they need to be made whole.

facehugger99

oceanman wrote: »

No....They were tried in a court of law by a jury and found not guilty.....End of story.

He said at post 2,500.

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why didn't you stop watching after Murray and Zebo where accused of the same thing a few years back ?

Link?

Wibbs

irishrebe wrote: »

You really must be doing the privilege thing wrong, since almost all the men I know are having a whale of a time. Must really suck to be born with so much privilege and still fail. Ouch. Go back to your Red Pill boards and continue griping about women being allowed to have opinions now.

Ho ho! the mask slips milady. Others that might have been acceptable: no doubt you've a tiny willie/I bet you live in a basement/no woman would have you.

FYI I regard the red pill gobsh1tes as well gobsh1tes and have regularly blasted the type around here. As for women having opinions, of course women have opinions, however just because you're a woman doesn't mean I automatically genuflect to your gender and not question them, up to calling BS when I see it. Just like I would with men's opinions. I can't help it if you can't rebut my points without the usual feminist loan words rhetoric.

LirW

I was telling my mother earlier of that case. She told me that there was a similar case in Austria where two Afghan minors were accused of raping an underaged girl, all 3 were on drugs, it was a case of he said, she said and in the end they were found not guilty.
It caused a major uproar and this is where it starts getting interesting. Turkey for example is a country that doesn't operate under a fair court system and a lot of people get convicted for very arbitrary reasons. Yet the whole of the Western world stands united that we cannot operate a court system like that.
Now that the verdict was not guilty because there was no hard evidence that a rape took place, people are turning into a lynch mob and demand exactly that.

I appreciate that this is a very emotional topic and this case underwent heavy media coverage. Rape is a horrible crime and unfortunately it's the nature of it that it's very difficult to prove, especially when the main focus is the consent. I am not blaming the victim here and I'm definitely not fond of these sleazy guys being full of themselves, they represent a nation as sportsmen after all but I do believe that "innocent until proven guilty" is one of the most profound principles in law and if we give that up we open a dangerous door to a court system full of bias and lies.
Not saying the status quo is great, but it's better than some backwards medieval system.

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

Mr.H wrote: »

So now I cant read?



You did say it wasnt the same thing?

So why isnt it the same thing??

Power imbalance or some other bull****

Yeah, 'just' a little power imbalance, no big deal. Not like it completely changes the entire dynamic or anything, nah.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Must be difficult to have a superiority AND a victim complex at the same time. Well done petal.

2018 Baby!!


Isn't it class!?

Cunning Stunt

spurious wrote: »

C__MC wrote: »

Can anyone inform why there is protests across the country? World has gone mad. The lads are innocent, the jury spent roughly 36 mins on each charge and swiftly dismissed the charges. Some feminists living in fantasy land. It’s over, the woman has life privacy while the lads are finished. Yet they are innocent, no guilt was found.

Because almost every woman in this country has either been sexually assaulted herself or knows someone who has been.

Think about that.

Thats the reason I have heard used a lot now, and while its a good thing to make people aware of the amount of sexual assault committed in the country if it is as bad as ypu claim, its clear that these protests are targetting this specific trial - look at all the "I believe her" and "I stand with her" banners and that is wrong in my opinion.
All these protesters are basically saying that the 4 men who were aquitted are in fact guilty,even though not one of them is qualified to make that judgement or will ever know what happened.

Mr.H

irishrebe wrote: »

You really must be doing the privilege thing wrong, since almost all the men I know are having a whale of a time. Must really suck to be born with so much privilege and still fail. Ouch. Go back to your Red Pill boards and continue griping about women being allowed to have opinions now.

I am not saying this because you are a woman. I am saying this because you talk like a spoilt little child who has no experience in the world. You my friend shouldnt have a say in anything ever.

Its people like you who are the reason we have Trump in power, Brexit on the horizon and protests about the outcome of a rape trial in another country. I mean grow up. If you think you dont have the same right as me you are obviously lazy and dont want to do anything but whinge. I know loads of women who are in well respected jobs because they dont waste their lives pretending that the white man is keeping them down.

Grow up

utyh2ikcq9z76b

spurious wrote: »

Because almost every woman in this country has either been sexually assaulted herself or knows someone who has been.

Think about that.

When the definition has become so broad as to basically include just trying to chat someone up as sexual assault if they 'feel' weird about it

If that statement where in any way true, the courts would be flooded with cases, which they arent

GreeBo

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why didn't you stop watching after Murray and Zebo where accused of the same thing a few years back ?

Zebo isnt white so its ok.

Check with irishrebe for the order of merit on who can abuse who with impunity.

I think at the moment the recently converted White Jewish Trans are top of the heap.

Aufbau

Wibbs wrote: »

Feminist "history", sorry Herstory in action. As usual it's only part of the story and tremendously simplistic. And if you think men have never been objects for women maybe have another read of the Bronte type narratives where the women are obsessed with the size of their potential suitors wallets and their social position. That's a narrative that's as old as the hills. Then again if it's not women are always victims it doesn't exist.

never heard that one before L.

"male privilege" eh? Here we go... Going by the averages as a man we'll die younger than women, die way more by our own hand, are more likely to be homeless, are more likely to be unemployed, are more likely to be lower paid before kids come along, are more likely to be alcoholics, less likely to have a social safety net and support that women often take for granted and a long list on top. Jaysus we must be doing this privilege thing wrong.

Though I have to say that you apparently a feminist have the monumental brass neck to use the term "victim status" applied to men with zero sense of irony is truly hilarious :pac: and demonstrates your completely blinkered third hand feminist worldview.

Would you prefer to be a woman, Wibbs?

SAMTALK

C__MC wrote: »

The girls behavior let’s dissect it. Goes to a house party and knew no one. Hung around the NI team in Ollie’s. Didn’t get back to their house party so went to Jackson’s on her own. Text a friend “I’m at paddy Jackson’s lol” shared a kiss with him to. She was looking for something that night clearly. It takes two to tangle.

I was making the point on the fact that if the lads are being called out on their disgusting behaviour because they now cannot be called out on being rapists, surely the girl should be as well because its level playing field now

I am not agreeing with what you just printed in any shape or form.
Lots of people go back to house party let it be for drinks/tea/sex/orgy but this does not mean they are looking to be raped or degraded.

Yes I agree it takes 2 to tango but you seem very sure she was the only one looking for something that night. What do you think the lads wanted that night? Looking to kiss/have sex with someone is a whole lot different to what she said happened and your post takes me back 10 years to the " well she was asking for it" brigade

Mr.H

irishrebe wrote: »

Yeah, 'just' a little power imbalance, no big deal. Not like it completely changes the entire dynamic or anything, nah.

What are you on about???

A man gropes a woman. A woman gropes a man. How is that not the same thing?

Neither is warranted. By the way I would hate to see a man slap a woman the way a woman would slap a man for that action.

Power imbalance??? Is that what they are teaching you in college instead of what you should be learning? Listening to too many fake feminst groups