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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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    #9362
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Is it possible to rape someone if they have jeans on, you would want to have a very forceful penis to penetrate jeans.

    Wasnt the woman in bed with Jackson before Olding came into the room, she was hardly in bed with her jeans on.

    Most sensible people would think the semen was transferred from her hand to the jeans when she picked them up and put them on.

    Only people who want the men hung, drawn and quarted would link the semen on the jeans to vaginal rape.

    I wonder is the semen on the crotch of the jeans the evidence that the PPS used to charge olding with rape. Why did the PPS change their mind twenty months later and drop the charge of vaginal rape.


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    #9363
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    The more worrying question is how do the physically weaker people protect themselves from the physically stronger people?
    I am thinking:how do I protect myself? If men are not going to take culpability, do we as women need to start protecting ourselves more.
    I am definitely going to arm myself more in future.

    Congratulations you are the most hysterical person in the world.

    You have probably went about your daily business for years without a hint of trouble. However now that a rape trial involving 2 high profile sports people in a different jurisdiction has taken place, you now have to take extra precautions.
    Even though a jury acquitted the men of all charges that somehow relates to you now being liable to rapists.

    I'm going to be extra careful driving to work in the morning after that Portuguese airline pilot who was found boarding the plane drunk last week.
    Do you know me? No you don't, congratulations.
    I haven't gone about my daily business for years without trouble.
    I was raped. In Ireland. And I had two year's of therapy from the rape crisis centre in Dublin.
    So congratulations, you don't know me at all.


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    #9364
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    tretorn wrote: »
    Is it possible to rape someone if they have jeans on, you would want to have a very forceful penis to penetrate jeans.

    Wasnt the woman in bed with Jackson before Olding came into the room, she was hardly in bed with her jeans on.

    Most sensible people would think the semen was transferred from her hand to the jeans when she picked them up and put them on.

    Only people who want the men hung, drawn and quarted would link the semen on the jeans to vaginal rape.

    I wonder is the semen on the crotch of the jeans the evidence that the PPS used to charge olding with rape. Why did the PPS change their mind twenty months later and drop the charge of vaginal rape.
    If he had vaginal sex with her without a condom that's a possible reason why it could be transferred to her jeans when she put them back on.


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    #9365
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Yes she did.


    No, she didnt, she saw a thrusting movement and assumed it was sex. she didnt see PJS penis so couldnt say for certain where it was.

    None of PJS semen was foound anywhere in the room so no way of proving penile penetration took place.

    Jackson is probably telling the truth, even if he did have sex he could have claimed it was consensual. He said he didnt have intercourse and the Jury believed him.


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    #9366
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Happy4all wrote: »
    " ......Mr Olding’s semen on the crotch of the woman’s jeans. Instead, the jury was simply told the semen was found on the jeans, without being informed specifically where. The evidence was kept from the jury as it was ruled to be overly prejudicial. "


    Yet, the woman's underwear was past around in court....that's ok?


    Airbrushing a photo that was part of the evidence ? Dangerous practice to allow. I think the jury could have understood if it was stated the other blood stain was not the victims.

    It is ONLY dangerous if the prosecution and the judge are not aware of it. :rolleyes:


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    #9367
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    If he had vaginal sex with her without a condom that's a possible reason why it could be transferred to her jeans when she put them back on.

    The charge of vaginal rape was dropped due to further evidence becoming available.

    As yet we dont know what the further evidence is, maybe the PPS will elaborate.

    The internal swabs taken from the victim show no traces of semen so highly unlikely the semen on the jeans came from her vagina. If the prosecution could prove this was likely they wouldnt have dropped the charge.

    Its more likely that the semen was transferred from the womans hand, semen was also found on her top.


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    #9368
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Silentcorner wrote: »

    How did the whatsapp message not make it into evidence....it was sent after he was made aware by the young lady that what happened was't consensual!!

    I mean, we know, from the young ladys messages what emojis she used!!!

    Her emojis/lolz were used to reflect her perceived state of mind moments after texting her friend to say she was raped. The spit roast text (as distasteful as it was) had no relevance because there was nothing tagged to it.
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Scumbags of the highest order.

    The complainant originally said that Olding vaginally raped her. There was Olding's semen on the crotch of her jeans

    There was unexplained blood on Jackson's bed, which could suggest they had done it before.

    Harrison sent a video of a threesome to Jackson the morning after calming down a hysterical woman. What a scumbag

    They are worse than I thought. Absolute scumbags.

    She gave him a blowjob. Unless she swallowed (I am not privy to the end result) then it either was transferred by her hand, or she may have wiped her mouth after, or the semen landed on them. I certainly don't know, but it doesn't point to vaginal intercourse.

    The other blood could have been from anyone. We know it wasn't from the complainant. For all we know, PJ hadn't changed sheets for a long time and the blood could have been there for weeks/months from a different woman (or man...who knows).
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Yes she did.

    No, she didn't.


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    #9369
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,075 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Was he not also the one who said it wasn't going to end well. He got that right anyway. No one's laughing now, certainly now the boys being boys.

    I'm not up to speed.
    What's the video?

    To thine own self be true



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    #9370
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    tretorn wrote: »
    Is it possible to rape someone if they have jeans on, you would want to have a very forceful penis to penetrate jeans.

    Wasnt the woman in bed with Jackson before Olding came into the room, she was hardly in bed with her jeans on.
    Haha I thought this attitude died with ancient Italian judges...

    https://amp.independent.ie/world-news/europe/italian-court-reverses-tight-jeans-rape-ruling-26464014.html


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    #9371
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    tretorn wrote: »
    He really did draw the most negative attention on his friends.

    He is very loose tongued.

    He probably sent the porn video without even thinking, next we will have to find out who sent the porn video to Rory Harrison, he or she should be shamed by twitter too.

    There is a spit roast gif on this site at this very moment. What does that say about all of us. Hmmmmm :D


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    #9372
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Do you know me? No you don't, congratulations.
    I haven't gone about my daily business for years without trouble.
    I was raped. In Ireland. And I had two year's of therapy from the rape crisis centre in Dublin.
    So congratulations, you don't know me at all.

    Sorry to hear of your experience. Though it is clearly making you biased.
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    If he had vaginal sex with her without a condom that's a possible reason why it could be transferred to her jeans when she put them back on.

    Then there would have been semen inside her, or on her underwear at the very least. There was none. So the semen was on the outside, crotch area.


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    #9373
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Olding ejaculated on his chest, I doubt if a rapist would care where he ejaculated.

    He left the room then to clean himself up.

    Its quite possible some semen was on the womans hand, I think you only need tiny amounts of semen for forensic purposes. There was semen on the womans top and on the duvet as far as I recall.


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    #9374
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    goz83 wrote: »

    Then there would have been semen inside her, or on her underwear at the very least. There was none. So the semen was on the outside, crotch area.

    Would it? Tell me in your expert forensic opinion how long would the trace of semen stay there since she didn't go to the clinic till next day or so (I can't remember exactly but certainly not straight away).


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    #9375
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It is ONLY dangerous if the prosecution and the judge are not aware of it. :rolleyes:



    Sorry, a judge allowing a piece of evidence being photo shopped is the problem


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    #9376
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    The blood didnt belong to the woman who alleged she was raped, it had no evidential value in the trial and the judge knew it would be used as ammunition by the twitter mob to say PJ and Olding had form.

    its all so predictable and time for sensible people to call a halt.


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    #9377
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Happy4all wrote: »




    Sorry, a judge allowing a piece of evidence being photo shopped is the problem

    Why? The prosecution agreed it was the only non prejudicial way to show the bedroom.

    It is a perfectly fine procedure when every one is on board


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    #9378
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Would it? Tell me in your expert forensic opinion how long would the trace of semen stay there since she didn't go to the clinic till next day or so (I can't remember exactly but certainly not straight away).

    If it's anything like heinz ketchup, a few days at least.



    If sperm lasts several days in the vagina, I think the semen would have been present while she was at the clinic. And if she has washed, then it would have been left on her underwear....assuming she put those back on....which I think she did according to the reports.


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    #9379
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Ask anyone who has had an unexpected pregnancy, probably three or four days.

    If it was found on the jeans it should definitely have been found inside her if Olding had vaginally raped her.

    In any event the prosceution withdrew the charge of vaginal rape against Olding and they had the semen on the crotch of the jeans when making that decision. Something made them withdraw that charge which Olding denied from day one so talk about semen on jeans and what it means in more twitter gibberish.

    Most sensible people who put their fate into our justice system know this, its those with low IQ on twitter who have a difficulty dealing with facts, they prefer hysteria.


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    #9380
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,376 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Willie john McBride, president of Ulster Rugby Supporters on Sean O'Rourke this morning to explain why Jackson and Olding should be allowed to resume their careers.

    Height of respect for willie John but really he was out of his depth today. When he was asked about the WhatsApp messages he was bewildered. Then blamed alcohol for the whole episode. It played its part yes but lot of other factors. I got the feeling he was prevailed upon by the ulster supporters club to go on and defend them.


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    #9381
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Height of respect for willie John but really he was out of his depth today. When he was asked about the WhatsApp messages he was bewildered. Then blamed alcohol for the whole episode. It played its part yes but lot of other factors. I got the feeling he was prevailed upon by the ulster supporters club to go on and defend them.

    I thought he put it down to the rashness/mistakes of youth and alcohol. Which wouldn't be far from my own feelings on the sorry mess.


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    #9382
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Do you know me? No you don't, congratulations.
    I haven't gone about my daily business for years without trouble.
    I was raped. In Ireland. And I had two year's of therapy from the rape crisis centre in Dublin.
    So congratulations, you don't know me at all.

    I'm very sorry to hear of that appledream. However do you feel you are more at risk of being raped again because of this trial? If so, why?


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    #9383
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,100 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Happy4all wrote: »




    Sorry, a judge allowing a piece of evidence being photo shopped is the problem

    If it wasn't photo shopped it wasn't being shown to the jury. It is pretty simple and all parties agreed to it.

    Obviously the judge did err by not asking the twitter mob to give their input before making her decision, which is a complete disgrace to the justice system.


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    #9384
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Do you know me? No you don't, congratulations.
    I haven't gone about my daily business for years without trouble.
    I was raped. In Ireland. And I had two year's of therapy from the rape crisis centre in Dublin.
    So congratulations, you don't know me at all.

    Your congratulations are gratefully and thankfully accepted.....


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    #9385
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I thought he put it down to the rashness/mistakes of youth and alcohol. Which wouldn't be far from my own feelings on the sorry mess.

    The usual shrill feminists and hypocrites want to end careers because some red blooded young men were having a good time . If it was a gay guy swearing and openly using sexual language between friends in what's app they wouldn't dare criticize his right to an adventurous sex life . They'd be accused of homophobic bigotry . The feminists hate straight men . The unprincipled media parrots this


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    #9386
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    masculinist wrote: »
    The usual shrill feminists and hypocrites want to end careers because some red blooded young men were having a good time . If it was a gay guy swearing and openly using sexual language they wouldn't dare criticize his right to an adventurous sex life . They'd be accused of homophobic bigotry . The feminists hate straight men . The unprincipled media parrots this


    +1 Well said.... took the words out of my mouth.


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    #9387
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Uncharted wrote: »
    Your congratulations are gratefully and thankfully accepted.....

    Well if anyone needed a proof of total lack of class and basic decency that it is...


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    #9388
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    The hysteria around this is unbelievable. We have people on this thread admitting to being armed.

    People need to calm down.


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    #9389
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,169 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Oaklyn Early Fauna wrote: »
    The hysteria around this is unbelievable. We have people on this thread admitting to being armed.

    People need to calm down.

    The rather tired but still vitriolic outrage I am seeing on FB and Twitter is exactly why the prosecution, defence and judge needed to make these decisions.
    99.9% of them haven't drawn breath to take the reasons why it was done and I reckon a good few believe that the blood was the complainants. Crazy.


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    #9390
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    If it wasn't photo shopped it wasn't being shown to the jury. It is pretty simple and all parties agreed to it.

    Obviously the judge did err by not asking the twitter mob to give their input before making her decision, which is a complete disgrace to the justice system.

    "In order to find a solution, Judge Smyth made the unusual suggestion of “airbrushing” out the blood stains which did not relate to the woman.

    As a result, the bloodstains were removed using Photoshop before the pictures were shown to the jury."


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    #9391
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The rather tired but still vitriolic outrage I am seeing on FB and Twitter is exactly why the prosecution, defence and judge needed to make these decisions.
    99.9% of them haven't drawn breath to take the reasons why it was done and I reckon a good few believe that the blood was the complainants. Crazy.

    I didn't think it was possible, but it seems both sides are even more entrenched than they were this morning....

    Irish Rugby, and Ulster Rugby are in a very very difficult situation...


This discussion has been closed.
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