Ireland to consider expelling Russian diplomats

lifeandtimes

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-to-consider-expelling-russian-diplomats-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-36735761.html

This may lead to hightened tensions

So what will it be Nato Vs Russia?

Who will win?

Vicxas

Yay..... a second Cold War.

Just what the world needs right now.

weldoninhio

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-to-consider-expelling-russian-diplomats-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-36735761.html

This may lead to hightened tensions

So what will it be Nato Vs Russia?

Who will win?

Why not put Theresa May in charge of Ireland? Leo seems to be just parroting their move, why pay him and a govt to do the exact same as May?

lifeandtimes

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why not put Theresa May in charge of Ireland? Leo seems to be just parroting their move, why pay him and a govt to do the exact same as May?

seems the french are going to follow suit as will other countries

https://news.sky.com/story/live-more-countries-to-expel-russian-diplomats-after-salisbury-attack-11300963

Elmer Blooker

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-to-consider-expelling-russian-diplomats-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-36735761.html

This may lead to hightened tensions

So what will it be Nato Vs Russia?

Who will win?

US investment in Ireland and a favourable Brexit negotiation = a certain amount of boot licking will be required.
Bad bad Russia ........'highly likely' ..

ChikiChiki

Stay out of it at this early stage in my opinion. Don't know why he's putting us being a historically neutral and tiny country up on a pedastal with France. I suspect Leo is just happy to get publicity without actually thinking of the consequences. Another moronic move by him.

Let the European big hitters mouth off at Russia and expel diplomats. If it comes to it we'll quietly follow suit instead of putting attention on little ol defenceless Ireland straight away. Sure we'll send a few PC-7s up to warn the Russians off.

Wreckless from Leo again.

weldoninhio

lifeandtimes wrote: »

seems the french are going to follow suit as will other countries

https://news.sky.com/story/live-more-countries-to-expel-russian-diplomats-after-salisbury-attack-11300963

All these threats against Russia and it still has not been proven what the nerve agent was, or if they were behind it. Doesn't the "innocent until proven guilty" thing apply to international diplomacy??

Nettle Soup

These diplomat expulsions are a farce really. They are for media coverage only - all optics. They have little direct impact. They expel some and some more come in to replace them, if required. The British will use to it expel the diplomats they don't like working with.

Gatling

Send them packing won't make much of a difference ,I can only the threads of fauxraged posters crying how it's not fair ,
We'd be better off blocking RT and sputnik from broadcasting here and block website access ,

Zebra3

weldoninhio wrote: »

All these threats against Russia and it still has not been proven what the nerve agent was, or if they were behind it. Doesn't the "innocent until proven guilty" thing apply to international diplomacy??

If you’re a western power or one of their vile mates like Saudi Arabia or Israel, then yeah.

Otherwise, good luck.

Gatling

Zebra3 wrote: »

If you’re a western power or one of their vile mates like Saudi Arabia or Israel, then yeah.

Otherwise, good luck.

But we're not talking about them are we

kneemos

Gatling wrote: »

Send them packing won't make much of a difference ,I can only the threads of fauxraged posters crying how it's not fair ,
We'd be better off blocking RT and sputnik from broadcasting here and block website access ,

RT though differs from the established western media,therefore it must be real news.

Gatling

kneemos wrote: »

RT though differs from the established western media,

"therefore it must be real news".

Therefore it must be real news according to the Kremlin and because it's not western media it's real and they would not lie or have an agenda ,

But they do some reason have a thing for the environmental facts .

Everything else is pure Kremlin propaganda

Barry Badrinath

"Diplomats"

neris

doubt it,ll make a huge difference, we dont seem to do huge amounts of trade or tourism with russia and alot of the business seems to be funneling dodgy russian roubles through the ifsc. pity we cant have a decent relationship with russia coz of the EU, always thought it could be a decent market for exporting agri & seafood products to.

Ray Bloody Purchase

Keep your bloody oar out of this Leo.

razorblunt

As long as they leave the Smirnoff.

Wanderer78

Gatling wrote:

Therefore it must be real news according to the Kremlin and because it's not western media it's real and they would not lie or have an agenda ,

Interesting to hear from Stacy Herbert, that RT have never interfered with the editorial of the kesier report, kesier himself regularly slating western media sources such as the BBC with their interference from his past experiences with them

seamus

weldoninhio wrote: »

All these threats against Russia and it still has not been proven what the nerve agent was, or if they were behind it. Doesn't the "innocent until proven guilty" thing apply to international diplomacy??

Well you know, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

A convicted Russian traitor and his daughter are found near death after having being poisoned using a Soviet/Russian nerve agent, in a manner which is practically identical to how Russia has murdered former spies in the past.

And Russia's response is "Nah, wasn't us".

Pull the other one.

This is like the MH-17 nonsense again, where it was clear even before the official report that the aircraft had been shot down by Russian military hardware, but you still had Russia shrugging its shoulders and doing a Shaggy on it.

Putin is a dictator. Dictators murder those who oppose them.

baylah17

`We should boycott the World Cup, refuse to send a team.


..... oh yeah, oops, forgot:D:D:D

valoren

Would it not make sense to keep the diplomats captive here in case something actually went down? Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

weldoninhio

seamus wrote: »

Well you know, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

A convicted Russian traitor and his daughter are found near death after having being poisoned using a Soviet/Russian nerve agent, in a manner which is practically identical to how Russia has murdered former spies in the past.

And Russia's response is "Nah, wasn't us".

Pull the other one.

This is like the MH-17 nonsense again, where it was clear even before the official report that the aircraft had been shot down by Russian military hardware, but you still had Russia shrugging its shoulders and doing a Shaggy on it.

Putin is a dictator. Dictators murder those who oppose them.

Grand, so no need for investigations etc. That rape trial in NI, the lads look guilty, throw away the key. Tina Satchwell is missing, hubby last one to see her, in a lot of cases its the hubby/partner that done it, lock him up. Guilford Four, Birmingham Six, Reuben Carter etc etc etc would all be locked away still with your nonsense way of looking at things.

Oldtree

Not sure the Russians would care or even know where Ireland is! Unless they like the poteen in which case we have them over a barrel.

CrankyHaus

seamus wrote: »

Well you know, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

A convicted Russian traitor and his daughter are found near death after having being poisoned using a Soviet/Russian nerve agent, in a manner which is practically identical to how Russia has murdered former spies in the past.

And Russia's response is "Nah, wasn't us".

Pull the other one.

This is like the MH-17 nonsense again, where it was clear even before the official report that the aircraft had been shot down by Russian military hardware, but you still had Russia shrugging its shoulders and doing a Shaggy on it.

Putin is a dictator. Dictators murder those who oppose them.

You don't think it's reasonable to have the details of this incident clarified before rushing to take drastic foreign policy actions?

endacl

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Wreckless from Leo again.

No wreck? Surely a good thing?

Mark Henderson

Gatling wrote: »

Send them packing won't make much of a difference ,I can only the threads of fauxraged posters crying how it's not fair ,
We'd be better off blocking RT and sputnik from broadcasting here and block website access ,

Sure if we are going down that route then let's block Sky News/BBC or any other news outlet that put's out an agenda or is it only agendas you disagree with personally you'd like to see blocked?

seamus

weldoninhio wrote: »

Grand, so no need for investigations etc. That rape trial in NI, the lads look guilty, throw away the key. Tina Satchwell is missing, hubby last one to see her, in a lot of cases its the hubby/partner that done it, lock him up. Guilford Four, Birmingham Six, Reuben Carter etc etc etc would all be locked away still with your nonsense way of looking at things.

This is not a criminal trial, it's an international matter.

You can't conflate or compare the two in any way.

weldoninhio

Mark Henderson wrote: »

Sure if we are going down that route then let's block Sky News/BBC or any other news outlet that put's out an agenda or is it only agendas you disagree with personally you'd like to see blocked?

His ideas seem very dictatorish, which is hilarious given he's complaining about a "dictator". Confused gentleman I think.

Alun

Oldtree wrote: »

Not sure the Russians would care or even know where Ireland is! Unless they like the poteen in which case we have them over a barrel.

There was a recent article in the UK Times newspaper about the Russian Embassy here expanding quite considerably, out of all proportion to the number of Russians in Ireland, and that there were suspicions about them using it as some kind of base for cyber warfare etc.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/russia-has-fingers-in-all-sectors-of-irish-life-fpxlsw8x9

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/behind-the-iron-curtain-of-the-russian-embassy-in-dublin-f999sjfcr

Google "dublin russian embassy site:thetimes.co.uk" for more.

seamus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

You don't think it's reasonable to have the details of this incident clarified before rushing to take drastic foreign policy actions?

They seem pretty clear to me. If you mean "confirmed", then the Russians were given the chance to reply and dismissed it with a "Don't really care, not our problem" reply.

So in the absence of any reasonable alternative explanation and all signs pointing at Russia, yes it seems reasonable to escalate foreign policy actions.

Gatling

Mark Henderson wrote: »

or is it only agendas you disagree with personally you'd like to see blocked?

Reregs love to see blocked too .

Kremlin media .

Specialun

send them back if ya like but keep the tall hot Russian women

baylah17

baylah17 wrote: »

`We should boycott the World Cup, refuse to send a team.


..... oh yeah, oops, forgot:D:D:D

Or, hope that a few other nations boycott it and Ireland get to take their place.

Mark Henderson

This whole "anti Russian" vibe the UK government have been pushing the last few years is something a lot of Irish people i have spoke with don't want anything to do with so Varadkar needs to shut his gob and concentrate on fixing the many many problems we face within our own nation.

He'd do well to remember he fell into his position of power and hasn't got a mandate from the Irish electorate to be making these decisions.

CrankyHaus

Alun wrote: »

There was a recent article in the UK Times newspaper about the Russian Embassy here expanding quite considerably, out of all proportion to the number of Russians in Ireland, and that there were suspicions about them using it as some kind of base for cyber warfare etc.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/russia-has-fingers-in-all-sectors-of-irish-life-fpxlsw8x9

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/behind-the-iron-curtain-of-the-russian-embassy-in-dublin-f999sjfcr

Google "dublin russian embassy site:thetimes.co.uk" for more.

I saw it in the Sunday Times. Hard to judge the veracity as it's all unattributed 'intelligence sources'.

The Sunday Times Irish section is very good, out in front on a lot of issues. However parts of it's UK section is basically mad Colonel Blimp jingoistic tripe. One can read all sorts of guff banging the drum for wars with Iran/Russia/Johnny Foreigner Annoying Us This Week in it.

I wouldn't be surprised at the Russians taking advantage of our relative lack of security however. I'd be very interested to see more verified information on this.

ChikiChiki

Mark Henderson wrote: »

This whole "anti Russian" vibe the UK government have been pushing the last few years is something a lot of Irish people i have spoke with don't want anything to do with so Varadkar needs to shut his gob and concentrate on fixing the many many problems we face within our own nation.

He'd do well to remember he fell into his position of power and hasn't got a mandate from the Irish electorate to be making these decisions.

Hows the weather in St Petersburg? :pac:

Mark Henderson

Gatling wrote: »

Reregs love to see blocked too .

Kremlin media .

Nice deflection.

You've exposed yourself as someone who isn't interested in free speech and debating the issue. You believe in blocking peoples access to sources of information that can better enable them to make a judgement on the issue in hand.

Carry on...

Mark Henderson

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Hows the weather in St Petersburg? :pac:

Yes i'm a Kremlin bot or something, living off my ill gotten gains from Mr. Putin :rolleyes:

seamus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised at the Russians taking advantage of our relative lack of security however. I'd be very interested to see more verified information on this.

As a base for cyber ops, we'd definitely be of interest as we're well connected to the US, UK & Europe.

There was a Russian spy picked up by the Gardai on a Dublin beach a few years back. He'd been scoping out the undersea cables as they come ashore.

baylah17

Mark Henderson wrote: »

This whole "anti Russian" vibe the UK government have been pushing the last few years is something a lot of Irish people i have spoke with don't want anything to do with so Varadkar needs to shut his gob and concentrate on fixing the many many problems we face within our own nation.

He'd do well to remember he fell into his position of power and hasn't got a mandate from the Irish electorate to be making these decisions.

Bull
Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship and one would be reminded of the Nazi era looking at Putin, as for a mandate, consult the Constitution, the people dont elect the Taoiseach, the Dail does, and so Leo has all the mandate he requires.

baylah17

Mark Henderson wrote: »

Yes i'm a Kremlin bot or something, living off my ill gotten gains from Mr. Putin :rolleyes:

Well you read like one!

baylah17

Mark Henderson wrote: »

Nice deflection.

You've exposed yourself as someone who isn't interested in free speech and debating the issue. You believe in blocking peoples access to sources of information that can better enable them to make a judgement on the issue in hand.

Carry on...

Jawol Herr Doktor Geobells. :rolleyes:

Mark Henderson

baylah17 wrote: »

Bull
Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship and one would be reminded of the Nazi era looking at Putin, as for a mandate, consult the Constitution, the people dont elect the Taoiseach, the Dail does, and so Leo has all the mandate he requires.

You need to stop drinking the cool aid CNN the likes are selling you.

Leo has NO mandate from the Irish electorate. He is a lame duck Taoiseach.

neris

baylah17 wrote: »

Bull
Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship

might be but the russian people seem happy enough, they have jobs, food, an improving economy and a better lifestyle now then under yeltsin or the dreaming commies.

baylah17

Mark Henderson wrote: »

You need to stop drinking the cool aid CNN the likes are selling you.

Leo has NO mandate from the Irish electorate. He is a lame duck Taoiseach.

Leo Varadkar was elected Taoiseach by the Dail in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution .
Tough shít if you dont like , but it is a fact.

seamus

Mark Henderson wrote: »

You need to stop drinking the cool aid CNN the likes are selling you.

Leo has NO mandate from the Irish electorate. He is a lame duck Taoiseach.

Oh, that's interesting, you actually are a sock puppet account. Here I was thinking you were just another delusional 4channer.

Why would anyone in Ireland pay any attention to CNN? Why would you even mention CNN when discussing Irish politics?

Your mask has slipped, jog on comrade.

CrankyHaus

seamus wrote: »

They seem pretty clear to me. If you mean "confirmed", then the Russians were given the chance to reply and dismissed it with a "Don't really care, not our problem" reply.

So in the absence of any reasonable alternative explanation and all signs pointing at Russia, yes it seems reasonable to escalate foreign policy actions.

Yes the circumstantial evidence is fairly damning. I'd still favour independent verification of the chemical and likely provenance from the OPCW.

We've all seen fake evidence deployed by the UK intelligence and defence establishment to justify a war before this. You may recall the whistleblower in that case was found dead in contentious circumstances, with all evidence around his death classified for 70 years.

seamus

Absolutely, and there are many reasons for vigilance here.

But everyone sitting on their hands and doing nothing while a thorough investigation takes place, really only benefits the perpetrator. It is impossible that Russia knows nothing about this, given the circumstantial evidence.

Their desire to deflect and ignore rather than engage and assist, speaks volumes in itself. If Russia really did nothing, why are they ignoring an apparent smear attempt? Why are they engaging bot networks to push propaganda and smear other countries instead of meeting with other world leaders to tackle it together?

This is exactly what happened with MH-17. Russia continuously denied any involvement, denied evidence that was right out in the open, refused to engage with independent investigations, and rather than freely discuss the matter, instead cranked up the online propaganda machine to try and push the blame elsewhere.

Mark Henderson

seamus wrote: »

Oh, that's interesting, you actually are a sock puppet account. Here I was thinking you were just another delusional 4channer.

Why would anyone in Ireland pay any attention to CNN? Why would you even mention CNN when discussing Irish politics?

Your mask has slipped, jog on comrade.

Hehe the old "i don't agree with you so i won't bother engaging"

I'll go for my jog and leave you to it.

Mark Henderson

baylah17 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar was elected Taoiseach by the Dail in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution .
Tough shít if you dont like , but it is a fact.

Now now no need for the language.

He's a coward who won't take it to the people then he goes off and put's his foot in it like he did with Trump last week.

He needs to shut up and concentrate on internal matters.

CrankyHaus

seamus wrote: »

Absolutely, and there are many reasons for vigilance here.

But everyone sitting on their hands and doing nothing while a thorough investigation takes place, really only benefits the perpetrator. It is impossible that Russia knows nothing about this, given the circumstantial evidence.

Their desire to deflect and ignore rather than engage and assist, speaks volumes in itself. If Russia really did nothing, why are they ignoring an apparent smear attempt? Why are they engaging bot networks to push propaganda and smear other countries instead of meeting with other world leaders to tackle it together?

This is exactly what happened with MH-17. Russia continuously denied any involvement, denied evidence that was right out in the open, refused to engage with independent investigations, and rather than freely discuss the matter, instead cranked up the online propaganda machine to try and push the blame elsewhere.

I wouldn't say it's impossible they know anything about it, though it's certainly very unlikely.

The country's leadership comprises a lot of former KGB types, secrecy and obfuscation is an instinct for them. Culturally Russia is distrustful of western attack, to the point of paranoia, due to its history. The actions of the west since 1990 have not helped assuage this.

I do think rising tensions are a two way street however. Just look at how much flak any anglophone politician receives for promoting dialogue over confrontation with Russia in recent years. I find most English language coverage of Russia to be bellicose, alarmist and poorly informed. German sources for example (often in English) tend to be far more nuanced and realistic.