The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

January

Anti-choice side at it again, contacting our venue for our quiz night and putting pressure on them to cancel

Bredabe

suicide_circus wrote: »

Men have no rights around parasitic foetuses (in utero) or full term foetuses (aka children)

Men not married to the pregnant person don't have any rights, fathers married to the pregnant person can afaik stop the putting the child up for the adoption process.

If you don't like this, tell your TD's, I'm active in this area and TD's tell me again and again that there is no need or appetite for change in the current legislation.

thee glitz

January wrote: »

Anti-choice side at it again, contacting our venue for our quiz night and putting pressure on them to cancel

Ah that's not right - what kind of pressure? I wouldn't support pro-choice events, but not oppose their table quizzes either. Despite your use of the term 'Anti-choice' somewhat diminishing your standing.

thee glitz

Sofiztikated wrote: »

This is a rerun.

It's a rerun of a rerun.

Well it's not really, but it is an on-going process. The options available are opposing extremes - let's hope a middle ground can be found.

Bredabe

thee glitz wrote: »

Ah that's not right - what kind of pressure? I wouldn't support pro-choice events, but not oppose their table quizzes either. Despite your use of the term 'Anti-choice' somewhat diminishing your standing.

While I wouldn't speak for January, my pro-life girl sometimes calls herself anti-choice. For myself, what I've seen of their campaign it gives me the message that it "their way or the highway" which translates to anti-choice to me.

January

I'll use the term I like thanks, people here have called me a murderer so it's all good.

They've called and dropped into the venue and told them that if they go ahead with the quiz they'll lose their custom.

Nettle Soup

I have often thought many in the anti choice side came across as control freaks.

erica74

January wrote: »

I'll use the term I like thanks, people here have called me a murderer so it's all good.

They've called and dropped into the venue and told them that if they go ahead with the quiz they'll lose their custom.

Because they obviously can't engage in reasoned mature conversations about the topic so instead they've resorted to this sort of threatening nonsense.

Annasopra

amdublin wrote: »

Also are these posters allowed?

Yes. The date has been announced.

thee glitz

Bredabe wrote: »

While I wouldn't speak for January, my pro-life girl sometimes calls herself anti-choice.

Would you say she's a fascist, or possibly only anti-choice on one particular issue?

For myself, what I've seen of their campaign it gives me the message that it "their way or the highway" which translates to anti-choice to me.

What about the choice to allow for legislating for abortion in any case, or just in cases where it's reasonably deemed to be necessary - would you support people having a vote on that?

January wrote: »

I'll use the term I like thanks, people here have called me a murderer so it's all good.

Fair play tye, just saying. Use of the term 'murderer' isn't very nice or clever either.

They've called and dropped into the venue and told them that if they go ahead with the quiz they'll lose their custom.

Over a circle-jerk quiz that won't achieve feck all, but still bring the venue in a few quid? Management should tell them they're welcome to have their own quiz night there and otherwise stfu.

Bredabe

Save or some other groups have put red and white posters in the visitors' area here, with slogans like 1 in 4 pregnancies in the UK end in abortion, Not a single poster outside the church, but loads of them opposite or seeable from the leisure center/playpark.

They put them up while the kids were swimming, so not prepared for a million questions about abortion and what the UK has against pregnancies.

Obviously, those organizations don't care that 1 in 10 people in the country have sld and probably can't read their posters due to them being the worst possible combination of colours for ppl with that condition to read, inclusive much?

January

thee glitz wrote: »

Would you say she's a fascist, or possibly only anti-choice on one particular issue?



What about the choice to allow for legislating for abortion in any case, or just in cases where it's reasonably deemed to be necessary - would you support people having a vote on that?



Fair play tye, just saying. Use of the term 'murderer' isn't very nice or clever either.



Over a circle-jerk quiz that won't achieve feck all, but still bring the venue in a few quid? Management should tell them they're welcome to have their own quiz night there and otherwise stfu.

'circle jerk' quiz. You'd easily tell what side you're on. Fact is that you guys have enough money that posters have been erected pretty much around the country the minute the referendum date was set in stone yet here we are having to raise funds via quiz nights etc and we're the ones supposed to be being funded by some billionaire?

_Dara_

January wrote: »

I'll use the term I like thanks, people here have called me a murderer so it's all good.

They've called and dropped into the venue and told them that if they go ahead with the quiz they'll lose their custom.

From my pub- and shop-worker days - people who trot out those kind of threats are custom that’s not needed. And it’s often an empty threat. What, if you’re invited to an event there, you’re not going to go?

I hope the venue doesn’t capitulate.

applehunter

January wrote: »

Anti-choice side at it again, contacting our venue for our quiz night and putting pressure on them to cancel

I completely disagree with this. I hope the pub doesn't bow down to that kind of tactic.

Why are you organising a quiz night?

Q.1. Why are you not out canvassing?

Referendum is in 8 weeks.

January

applehunter wrote: »

I completely disagree with this. I hope the pub doesn't bow down to that kind of tactic.

Why are you organising a quiz night?

Q.1. Why are you not out canvassing?

Referendum is in 8 weeks.

The national campaign needs funds badly so we hold fundraisers.

We are out canvassing, who said we weren't?

Guy:Incognito

Being as vague as i can, its an ongoing thing. Business I know , aimed at kids, organised a crowd to do leaflet drops recently , paid to have only theirs done , separately to anything else. On the north side of Dublin I think ( the drop) . Somehow pro life propaganda with graphic picture(s) made it's way inside the stuff being dropped . So the first anyone (outside of whoever put it there) knew about it is when some young kids were looking at it.

Ended up all over Facebook.

January

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Being as vague as i can, its an ongoing thing. Business I know , aimed at kids, organised a crowd to do leaflet drops recently , paid to have only theirs done , separately to anything else. On the north side of Dublin I think ( the drop) . Somehow pro life propaganda with graphic picture(s) made it's way inside the stuff being dropped . So the first anyone (outside of whoever put it there) knew about it is when some young kids were looking at it.

Ended up all over Facebook.

Same thing happened with a news paper down west. I know what you're talking about and both businesses are fuming at what happened. Seems to have been the distribution company at fault here.

Ave Sodalis

I'm strongly considering printing out a bunch of leaflets of the FAQ on The Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists website, and posting them through letterboxes.

TerrorFirmer

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I have often thought many in the anti choice side came across as control freaks.

I actually find the pro-choice side have become just as bad, if not actually worse on the far right end of the scale.

As someone who has attended quite a few debates/rallies on the issue, it's actually far easier to get reasoned debate from the pro-life side among those who attend events for either side.

Obviously most pro-life and most pro-choice people are reasonable people who have belief in their convictions but respect those of others.

But the radical 'repeal' crowd have become intolerable in my opinion. (I'm pro-choice, for reference)

Crea

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I actually find the pro-choice side have become just as bad, if not actually worse on the far right end of the scale.

As someone who has attended quite a few debates/rallies on the issue, it's actually far easier to get reasoned debate from the pro-life side among those who attend events for either side.

Obviously most pro-life and most pro-choice people are reasonable people who have belief in their convictions but respect those of others.

But the radical 'repeal' crowd have become intolerable in my opinion. (I'm pro-choice, for reference)

Seriously??? The pro life campaign have used 2 spokespeople who have blatantly lied about their medical credentials - one said he was a nurse and the other claimed to be a medical doctor. This is shocking.
I've also seen downright lies being told by pro life and when we challenge them we are accused of being aggressive.
If you are against repeal you are against abortion in Ireland for rape, FFA, serious risk to health of the mother. There is no moderate anti repeal.,

Sofiztikated

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I actually find the pro-choice side have become just as bad, if not actually worse on the far right end of the scale.

As someone who has attended quite a few debates/rallies on the issue, it's actually far easier to get reasoned debate from the pro-life side among those who attend events for either side.

Obviously most pro-life and most pro-choice people are reasonable people who have belief in their convictions but respect those of others.

But the radical 'repeal' crowd have become intolerable in my opinion. (I'm pro-choice, for reference)

That hasn't been my experience.

TerrorFirmer

Crea wrote: »

Seriously??? The pro life campaign have used 2 spokespeople who have blatantly lied about their medical credentials - one said he was a nurse and the other claimed to be a medical doctor. This is shocking.
I've also seen downright lies being told by pro life and when we challenge them we are accused of being aggressive.
If you are against repeal you are against abortion in Ireland for rape, FFA, serious risk to health of the mother. There is no moderate anti repeal.,

I was talking about first hand experience talking to a lot of campaigners on the ground.

I'm not excusing misinformation or misrepresentation of facts or talking about the major national figures.

I don't agree with the pro-life side fundamentally but I respect everyone's opinion once they're capable of engaging in reasoned, respectful, logical debate.

I was speaking broadly also, there's no point getting involved in individual anecdotal examples.

Annasopra

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I was talking about first hand experience talking to a lot of campaigners on the ground.

I'm not excusing misinformation or misrepresentation of facts or talking about the major national figures.

I don't agree with the pro-life side fundamentally but I respect everyone's opinion once they're capable of engaging in reasoned, respectful, logical debate.

I was speaking broadly also, there's no point getting involved in individual anecdotal examples.

Weird. You are giving us your own individual anecdotal examples.

TerrorFirmer

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Weird. You are giving us your own individual anecdotal examples.

I meant there's no point getting into 'this one time X says this, or Y said that'.

My original point was that the radical fringe of the pro-repeal is just as intolerant now as that of the pro-life.

And I think that's something that has only come about in recent years.

thee glitz

Crea wrote: »

If you are against repeal you are against abortion in Ireland for rape, FFA, serious risk to health of the mother. There is no moderate anti repeal.,

April Fool's no doubt.

thee glitz

January wrote: »

'circle jerk' quiz.

Sorry, I was a bit too honest there. Good on you for getting involved and making things happen. I'd support it only I don't.

You'd easily tell what side you're on.

Yes - by reading my posts.

Fact is that you guys have enough money that posters have been erected pretty much around the country the minute the referendum date was set in stone yet here we are having to raise funds via quiz nights etc and we're the ones supposed to be being funded by some billionaire?

They must be hiding the money from you! I'm not a no guy btw, more of a not under these circumstances lad. Glad to hear the no side are supposedly also well-funded. There's no cash for people in the middle!

volchitsa

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I meant there's no point getting into 'this one time X says this, or Y said that'.

My original point was that the radical fringe of the pro-repeal is just as intolerant now as that of the pro-life.

And I think that's something that has only come about in recent years.

So basically you make a sweeping generalization with no examples, whether personal or at the leadership level, to illustrate or back it up.

TBH, sounds like just another "I'm pro choice myself but here is why I like prolife better..." post, of which there are a suspiciously large number at the minute.

Simi

thee glitz wrote: »

I'm not a no guy btw, more of a not under these circumstances lad. Glad to hear the no side are supposedly also well-funded. There's no cash for people in the middle!

There is no middle. There's either repeal or no repeal. No to repeal means no abortion for FFA, rape, incest or threat to the woman's health and attempting to legally force her to continue a pregnancy against her wishes, regardless of the threat to her physical and mental health.

Yes to repeal allows the government to legislate for abortion in these cases.

Voting no and yet somehow claiming you're in the middle is disingenuous at best. We are not voting on the legislation that will come after repeal. We are voting on repeal itself.

If you vote no you are voting to ensure abortion remains illegal in all cases bar threat to life. The government is not going to rerun the referendum with new terms that are personally catered to your wishes! That is not how democracy works.

TerrorFirmer

volchitsa wrote: »

So basically you make a sweeping generalization with no examples, whether personal or at the leadership level, to illustrate or back it up.

TBH, sounds like just another "I'm pro choice myself but here is why I like prolife better..." post, of which there are a suspiciously large number at the minute.

This is a discussion board. I could post examples all day long, but at the end of the day this isn't a court of law and no one has anything to prove.

I merely made my valid observation and suddenly people feel they have to attack it, and now we have an implication that I'm secretly undermining the 'opposition'.

I am pro-choice and will be voting that way. You can believe it....or not?

Why are people obsessed with making these issues black and white? Am I not allowed criticize aspects of something even if I believe in it?

volchitsa

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

This is a discussion board. I could post examples all day long, but at the end of the day this isn't a court of law and no one has anything to prove.

I merely made my valid observation and suddenly people feel they have to attack it, and now we have an implication that I'm secretly undermining the 'opposition'.

I am pro-choice and will be voting that way. You can believe it....or not?

Why are people obsessed with making these issues black and white? Am I not allowed criticize aspects of something even if I believe in it?

Nobody said you can't criticise it, but as you say it's a discussion board. Not a blog. So if you say 'I think this thing", but refuse to explain why or illustrate it in any way - well, that's the end of the conversation isn't it?