The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Zubeneschamali

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well thanks for completely ignoring the point i was trying to make and settling for a cheap shot at the lady.

That's no..

Oh, do the rest yourselves.

January

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

FG and FF aren't campaigning at all.

Leo was out canvassing with Dublin West Together for Yes on Friday evening.

eeepaulo

garbo speaks wrote: »

If the referendum is passed, does that mean any woman will be able to go to the doctors for an abortion, or will there still be checks in place?

By checks in place at the moment are you talking about the ferry port or airport?

Bredabe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

FG and FF aren't campaigning at all.

Interparty meeting for a no vote happening close to me this weekend.

Zubeneschamali

January wrote: »

Leo was out canvassing with Dublin West Together for Yes on Friday evening.

Yes, and I'm sure Micheál will do his bit, too, and they will be joined by pro-repeal members of their parties. The fact remains that FG and FF, as parties, are not campaigning on this referendum at all.

posturingpat

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well luckily people are intelligent enough to go beyond "I dont like those people so i'll do the opposite of what they are doing just because" levels of thinking.

I'm not so sure, i know a lot of people from up around the border regions and they genuinely will not go anywhere near anything Sinn fein put their name beside.
As far as they're concerned Sinn Fein is the I.R.A.

seamus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, and I'm sure Micheál will do his bit, too, and they will be joined by pro-repeal members of their parties. The fact remains that FG and FF, as parties, are not campaigning on this referendum at all.

"Targetted" campaigning I imagine will be the order of the day.

They want to balance two things:

1. They don't want to lose voters by going in full blast and getting punished by the "no" voters at the next general election
2. They don't want the referendum to become about how much you like the government/parties.

Actually, it's probably just the first one, but I do appreciate them not campaigning because the second point. There are always a couple of idiots who'll vote against a referendum so as to punish a sitting government.

NuMarvel

garbo speaks wrote: »

If the referendum is passed, does that mean any woman will be able to go to the doctors for an abortion, or will there still be checks in place?

I imagine one of the first checks will be to see if the woman is pregnant so, no, it won't be a case of any woman being able to get an abortion.

seamus wrote: »

Mary-Lou's poster looks like a bit of a cheap publicity grab - branding & marketing, associating her face with Sinn Féin.

The Social Democrats have no faces on their posters. Does any other party?

The Green Party have people on their posters. I think they're regular women who volunteered (i.e. not Green Party politicians).

https://twitter.com/greenparty_ie/status/987287977750663168

I think these and the Labour "Compassion in a crisis" posters are the best overall, and I like the leaflet that FG published over the weekend as well.

ohnonotgmail

posturingpat wrote: »

I'm not so sure, i know a lot of people from up around the border regions and they genuinely will not go anywhere near anything Sinn fein put their name beside.
As far as they're concerned Sinn Fein is the I.R.A.

well then you know a lot of, quite frankly, ignorant people.

posturingpat

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well then you know a lot of, quite frankly, ignorant people.

That's what i told them

Shadowstrife

Politicians putting their faces on Yes posters just reeks of treating this issue as a political football.

But hey, I'll take whatever support I can get at the moment.

mikeecho

Wombatman wrote: »

Ditch the black Mary Lou and sack the stylist while you are at it. Doesn't take much to imagine the rest of the outfit, black leather gloves, black jack boots and the balaclava about to go on.

All black is slimming..

There's a reason she's in all black

Andy From Sligo

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child in the womb can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

SusieBlue

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

The woman carrying it can yawn and kick as well.

kylith

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

It can, but they’re unaware impulses. It’s like your leg twitching. The brain isn’t hooked up enough at that age for it to ‘decide’ to do anything.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

A 9 week old child can absolutely do those things. However a 9 week old foetus is not the same as a child, it hasn't developed a brain or a nervous system for example.

posturingpat

SusieBlue wrote: »

The woman carrying it can yawn and kick as well.

Yeah? :eek:

robarmstrong

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

Andy, I appreciate your input. They can yawn as early as 9 and a half weeks but it's usually 10-12 weeks.

I understand your hesitation, I don't agree with abortion myself but here's my situation.

My partner is 27 weeks pregnant with a baby girl, however before this we have suffered countless miscarriages due to her having a uterine abnormality (she has a heart shaped uterus) - basically this means that unless a baby implants in a certain area, my partner will lose the baby. All of our miscarriages have occured due to the baby implanting in an area that cannot support the size or volume of the amniotic sac which eventually will rupture due to the pressure placed upon it by the sides of the uterine wall (the latest we got to was 19 weeks).

Medical professionals have denied us access to abortions because technically my partner's health is not at risk nor is the babies (the baby will be absolutely fine and healthy, her waters will just break anyway and the baby will pass away). My partner does not meet the requirements for a legal abortion on Ireland because the medical professionals are of the opinion that due to the outcome of the pregnancy resting solely on where the baby implants, we can (and we currently are) having a successful pregnancy.

However this means that whenever the baby is not in the right place my partner is forced to carry it until she eventually miscarries it and has to deal with the heartbreak.

Despite my own views on abortion I do not think it is fair she has to suffer miscarriage after miscarriage instead of being able to legally have an abortion (where she will be surrounded by doctors and nurses with direct access to medical care versus randomly having her waters break and the baby passing shortly thereafter wherever she is) so I'm voting to repeal.

I hope this gives you a different bit of insight.

iguana

The reality is that this referendum isn't really about abortion. On average 11 Irish women have an abortion every day. Women who want/need an abortion can and do get them one way or another. It's about healthcare. Right now women of childbearing age have limits on the healthcare we are offered. Women carrying non viable pregnancies are left without adequate, compassionate treatment. Certain fertility issues can be left to get needlessly worse. Damage can be allowed to occur needlessly to our bodies. Even in the case of happy, healthy pregnancies our autonomy is removed from our maternity care. Sometimes women die. Because of the 8th.

The 8th doesn't save ''baby's" lives but it does risk, harm and even end women's.

crustybla

I hesitantly approached my male family members over the weekend to suss out what way they're gonna vote. Hubby is staunchly yes, but I was wondering about my brothers and my elderly father. Brother number one, innocently supping on tay and raiding his poor sister's larder, when pressed exclaimed "Oh I'm voting no! If I have to crawl on my hands and knees I'm voting no!" I was dismayed, I prepared to discuss it with him so I asked him why. He said that for too long this country has dictated to women what they should do with their bodies and it was well past time we copped on and moved with the times. The poor women and girls, he said and what they have to deal with. Glad I'm a man etc.
I softly enquired "Do you mean you're voting yes?". He said "I dunno, am I? I want to see the 8th repealed." Duh! Just as well I asked him.:rolleyes::pac:

Brother number 2, a bit later on, sniffing around the coffee. This was more straightforward. I barely had the question out and he expressed more knowledge then I would have given him credit for on the matter. Another yes.

Another yes from Dad. He reckons it's a crazy situation, but ignore the posters, which he declared were mostly lies anyway (his words). He said "Jaysus do they think we're all stupid?!" Another yes. The men in my life kind of surprised me. I don't know why I expected anything less.:D

Shadowstrife

^ Make sure they all are registered, especially in the case of Brother #1, not to single him out or anything

Smertrius

god give us freewill say to yes and freewill to have abortions

nozzferrahhtoo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

I assume you meant a 9 week old fetus, as I do not think 9 year old children have anything to do with this thread?

However corpses can fart and have erections. But like the fetus they are, in terms of personhood, humanity, consciousness, sentience..... dead. It would be interesting to know why yawning in particular sways you.

Even a single celled amoeba can move away from light, and respond to a needle stuck into it. Autonomic responses and bodily processes are not what we should value here.

However a vote of "no" is not going to stop abortions, or even reduce them any. Nor is a "yes" likely to increase the number of abortions Irish Women are already having. As much as the "no" side want to convince you of it, this vote goes way deeper than just a discussion of abortion. Abortion that is already happening.

A "yes" vote is about removing text from the constitution that impacts on, and harms, the health care of ALL pregnant women, even those who wish to remain pregnant and have a child. IF you care for that, vote yes. If you care for the women's safety and well being who are having abortion anyway only in the UK, and you would rather them have it here locally if they are going to have it anyway, vote yes. And if you care about the fetus at 9 weeks then vote yes, because having to travel for an abortion means it is likely to happen later than it would locally. If it was going to happen anyway would you rather it happen here at 8 weeks or in the UK at 9? Here at 10 or in the UK at 11 or 12? Why ADD time to the issue that you can not prevent anyway?

Andy From Sligo

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I assume you meant a 9 week old fetus, as I do not think 9 year old children have anything to do with this thread?
....

ah yes of course - better go back and amend it for people who didn't realise what i meant

garbo speaks

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child in the womb can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

It's a living, breathing little life.

Try_harder

Did I not vote on this already???

amcalester

garbo speaks wrote: »

It's a living, breathing little life.

A fetus does not breath in the womb.

gctest50

New poll - only 2 options now

Ave Sodalis

Try_harder wrote: »

Did I not vote on this already???

It was updated to reflect more current trends. People may change their mind, or make up their minds as the campaigns move on

Try_harder

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

It was updated to reflect more current trends. People may change their mind, or make up their minds as the campaigns move on

Still trust women