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Hive Blockchain Technologies Limited

  • 02-03-2018 9:20am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭ Captainsatnav


    Setting up this thread as people requested it in Share Picks 2018. Earnings announced Wednesday, price dropped.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ gamblor101


    Latest earnings here

    https://www.hiveblockchain.com/medias/uploads/FS.pdf

    Dipped my toe in at CA$2.20 and then made a bigger splash at CA$1.85

    Prepared to sit on this and see where it goes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    Can HIVE (Canada) be accessed on Degiro? Only seeing the Euro versions on there


  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭ Captainsatnav


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    Can HIVE (Canada) be accessed on Degiro? Only seeing the Euro versions on there

    Ya it's there. Toronto Venture Exchange. ISIN: CA43366H1001


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ gamblor101


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    Can HIVE (Canada) be accessed on Degiro? Only seeing the Euro versions on there

    Yes but there is no price data. Just search for HIVE in the search bar to find it.
    HBF is the euro version


  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭ Captainsatnav


    Actually on that, Degiro's weird that way. There's no price data but when it's in your portfolio it is (delayed a fair bit I think). Keep an eye on Yahoo Finance for more accurate price


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    Cheers folks, sorted.

    Here's the real time ticker by the way as Yahoo is delayed.

    https://web.tmxmoney.com/quote.php?qm_symbol=HIVE&locale=EN


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭ TheSheriff


    Dropping again slight today on the borse, any opinions why ?

    Have the earnings report not sunk in ? Is there some big problem in their financials I am not seeing ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭ Stephen Wooden Boot


    I think you can request Degiro to add live data if I'm not mistaken.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    Down almost 10% in Frankfurt!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭ Stephen Wooden Boot


    Big fluctuations on TSX today, trying to get in around 1.65


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Key quote:
    "I know that there’s a lot of interest and speculation on cryptocurrencies and where things are going,” says Campbell. “It’s a business that we don’t really understand very well."

    I've yet to see any investor say "Buy" to a stock they don't understand.

    He's right about them needing to identify new opportunities outside of mining although I imagine they'll have a sizable stake in ETH once PoS gets deployed.

    What happens if/when BTC becomes ASIC resistant? That could be a costly reappraisal of assets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Grindle do you think BTC will become ASIC resistant, what happens then does it move to GPU, I presume this would mean a lot of chip makers like Bitfury, Bitmain would go bang overnight?
    When or if do you see this possibly happening, the btc mine isn’t meant to be online until September with construction starting in May.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Grindle do you think BTC will become ASIC resistant, what happens then does it move to GPU, I presume this would mean a lot of chip makers like Bitfury, Bitmain would go bang overnight?
    When or if do you see this possibly happening, the btc mine isn’t meant to be online until September with construction starting in May.

    It's one of Luke Dashjr's main talking points, he despises Bitmain (and anything else which isn't Bitcoin or the Roman Catholic Church).
    ASIC resistance is a priority although it's basically an impossible goal to be 100% ASIC resistant unless you go fully into Proof of Stake - this has it's own trade-off whereby the person who can collect the most of WhicheverCoin the quickest is the dominant vote (or cartel of voters).
    If there's enough money to be made that it's worth throwing money and minds at a problem to solve it, it will happen. It's more about tempering the influence or dominance of any ASIC builds.

    It will be a long while away I think - they spend so much time fiddling and testing that it takes years for relevant updates to be released, any new PoW algorithm would have to be tested for a long time to find and fix whatever holes there may be.

    Cobra and theymos have both been putting forward the idea of a new hybrid system of PoW & PoS using different algorithms to reduce Bitmain's dominance to ~a third of what it is now.

    Remember that it's also in Hive's best interest for Bitmain to have a competitor, so an algorithm change probably wouldn't devastate them but it would be cause for a lot of their machines to be repurposed or sold and for them to pivot towards the new status quo which probably means a drop in dividends earnings for a quarter (if they're selling their ASICs off or maybe whatever they're repurposing them for isn't quite as profitable at the time).

    Hive/Bitfury are quite chummy with Blockstream so I'd imagine they'll be kept in the loop as to what happens whenever the Core team start adapting their builds to circumvent Bitmain, it's just a minor concern that they'll need enough revenue or funds raised to weather a couple of dodgy months if something gets released sooner than anybody would imagine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Thanks Grindle hive of information as usual.

    Just on Ether when it moves to proof of stake, If i’m understanding it correctly it’ll be great for Hive with all the hoarded coins but what happens then to their Etherum mines are they then redundant as far as Etherum is concerned or is it a case that they have such a large amount of Ether built up they will be put to use forging?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Thanks Grindle hive of information as usual.

    Just on Ether when it moves to proof of stake, If i’m understanding it correctly it’ll be great for Hive with all the hoarded coins but what happens then to their Etherum mines are they then redundant as far as Etherum is concerned or is it a case that they have such a large amount of Ether built up they will be put to use forging?

    Ethereum miners/GPUs can either be sold (2nd hand GPUs sell above RRP nowadays, or at least very close to it even if a generation or two behind), possibly used for sidechain mining or mining other large currencies (XMR dominant there) or mining small currencies where they'd be laying a bet themselves on the use-case and likelihood of growth (AEON one to look out for).

    And yes, they apparently have such a large amount of ETH built up that it sort of ensures either healthy dividends fro PoS or offsetting of losses for as long as Ethereum maintains it's place in the market. That doesn't even mean ETH has to stay @ 2 on CMC or usurp BTC, or even be in top 5 or 10, it just has to be used consistently for what it was designed for. Which I believe it will be, because it currently is and it's growing faster and at a greater rate than other chains can manage.
    Most devs in a single crypto ecosystem? ETH.
    More transactions being handled with more value being transferred on the daily than any other chain (Steem might have more txs, but value being created? Not. A. Hope. :pac:)
    Once it's scaling issues are rendered relatively meaningless (Plasma & sharding -> Casper) it is going to retain dominance in use-case to such an extent that it will be hard to beat it, especially if EEA adoption starts creeping out of pilot tests and into genuine restructuring of financial and strategic workflows within Fortune 500 companies and then branches out to the stay-safe crowd.
    Some people bang the point of ETH being Web 3.0 or the world's super-computer too much at such an early stage, but Ethereum at a large enough scale can and will automate a lot of busywork for companies.
    If they solve their scaling issues within a few years I can't see a reason why it would fail tbh.
    The main thing BTC proponents have against it is (apart from juvenile fanboy maximalism hype to retain their coin's worth) the DAO rollback (BTC did similar in 2010 when >180b coins were minted except the main fault was with the protocol - ETH's problem was with a smart contract being written stupidly without sufficient testing) and the notion that Vitalik is the "known" demi-god which therefore risks the whole spiel - Satoshi is still unknown and could still arrive and sell his coins bringing BTC to it's knees. Likelihood? Slim. Influence on future business? Little.
    Vitalik's influence beyond his well-reasoned economic-outcome-of-X back-and-forths is going to be outgrown by the sphere of influence ETH has on businesses as a whole imo. His thoughts will be either championed by or curtailed by the voters in ETH's PoS.

    That was all very OT, apologies - weed talking - go HIVE!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Think I’ll have to have a blaze and try reading that again : )


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Think I’ll have to have a blaze and try reading that again : )

    :D

    God help you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭ OwlsZat


    Lots of capital raised with cheap share offerings and the maintenance contract which it looks to also paid in shares? Long term looks good but likely 6 months + before any real share price progress due to continued selling I'd speculate.

    I think the fact that they haven't sold any ether is interesting too. Is this a bet on the value of the holding going up or is there another reason?  This totals with my own guesstimate that any potential recession would provide a price boost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    I’d say not selling the Ether is a bet on proof of stake. I don’t buy crypto but would be interesting to hear from someone hoarding Ether why there hoarding it and where they see it going.
    Bitcoin looks like a lazy buy to me that most people will do but Ether seems like the thinking mans choice.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    ETH hoarder checking in! Apologies for the essay

    If Bitcoin is a hedged bet against government-sponsored fiat's debt mountains and inflationary practices and the inherent distrust we should all have for the people who maintain the status quo - who have created debts so large they'll be passed onto our children in the best case scenario - then Ethereum is a bet on automation of terms and conditions between parties and ultimately cost-cutting for businesses whilst increasing trust in tandem.
    The cost-cutting doesn't come about by replacing databases which is what some seem to think (that would be very inefficient and barely scratches the surface of trust in finance), but by replacing a large amount of the humans interacting with databases or simple binary contract terms who're performing busywork - relying on some well-trained yet fallible and tremendously slow human to perform a task that a machine can do faultlessly and fast is a huge cost.

    Bitcoin may be able to do what Ethereum is doing using Rootstock (aka 'RSK', which is basically an Ethereum clone right down to using Solidity as it's language) with the caveat that it relies on centralised nodes as opposed to a more widely distributed network - ultimately Ethereum has gained so much ground when it comes to being used that it's going to be incredibly hard to claw working devs away from it without sufficient incentive.

    Where do I see it going? It's only just begun it's journey but it's already starting to dismantle the traditional VC/IPO phases of start-ups. The longer that plays out and the further it goes the less focus on Silicon Valley in general which can only be a good thing.
    Tech has gotten to the point where working from home or at least from your own locality in a shared workspace is increasing and whoever you work for or with can stage video meetings relatively painlessly without the added costs of moving hires to whichever base the company has, lower salaries as they don't need to pay exorbitant rates dependant on geography, insurance, canteen food, etc etc.
    There are many start-ups worth anywhere from millions to tens to hundreds of millions (and some in the billions) now dotted around the world where there were none before.
    And loads of scams.

    More practically for other office workers around the globe : like hinted at above, if a job or service provided is easily automated/ broken down into if/else statements, if it would be more cost effective for the Ethereum VM to complete the task with a much greater level of trust and transparency than the average human can muster, then consider the necessity for humans in that job or service to be reduced.

    Any chance to leverage the assets of others and reward appropriately is happening right now (predominantly mining and to a lesser extent storage and processing power) and will likely become near ubiquitous with storage and computational power being rented as needs arise via token economies.

    The tools are waiting to be used, it just takes some sparks of ingenuity from thinkers and tinkerers to coax ideas into reality.
    Voting could move to blockchain, national currencies could be open-sourced sidechains benefitting from the eyes of many rather than some discreetly gamed mechanism controlled by few to hide absurd backroom dealings, IoT devices could communicate with and pay eachother across networks, insurance claims could be processed faster provided certain conditions have been met (AXA uses this to refund customers who have delayed flights, the service is called 'Fizzy' which is currently in beta), renewable energy could be produced and resold amongst locals, donation drives could send money relatively quickly and painlessly to those in need with little to nothing in the shape of an administrative middle-man depending on circumstance.

    This is mostly very long view stuff which is of little interest to (self-proclaimed and prideful) luddites but by the time these kinds of advances are widespread, in every device and home, most luddites will be too close to death or infirmity to give a toss about Skynet Ethereum.

    Price-speculation... Who knows? Within 2-3 years it could overtake Apple's cap or maybe it'll collapse to nought. I personally see the former as more likely even though the sell pressure will be enormous if it ever gets near that kind of milestone - a whole lot of people will be retiring on a fraction of the money they've made since it was $10.
    Doesn't really matter too much for the project imo. If a small amount of Ether is necessary to perform a repetitive mechanical task based on pure logic and that cost is lower than the cost of performing the task outside of the EVM then the decision is made, Ether gets bought and the world keeps spinning.

    That isn't me thinking it's definitively worth that much ($1t) btw, just the simple fact that price overshoots utility in crypto for obvious reasons - people are hoarding and there's a free flow of money into crypto. I doubt most buyers know what Ethereum enables really, or what it's purpose is - they probably think it's just another BTC clone yet they still buy it. And that's fine too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭ OwlsZat


    If you give 10% APR using POS to Ethereum 2 holders. Are you not devaluing what is already available since you are creating and giving it away for effectively nothing?

    Is that not edging towards exactly what people don't like about traditional currency?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    At least were back in favour with the bots previously was 1.32, is now 7.59. Hopefully they'll get back to work and take us to the moon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭ Captainsatnav


    At least were back in favour with the bots previously was 1.32, is now 7.59. Hopefully they'll get back to work and take us to the moon.

    Can I ask what you're referring to there? It's not the CAD$ price...


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Can I ask what you're referring to there? It's not the CAD$ price...

    It’s is that site uses algrothims to work out price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 uniemaia


    subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ Tinder Surprise


    Any of you lovely people hold any?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    If you give 10% APR using POS to Ethereum 2 holders. Are you not devaluing what is already available since you are creating and giving it away for effectively nothing?

    Is that not edging towards exactly what people don't like about traditional currency?

    10% extra on top of your staked ETH being minted and given away is a fantasy which has little basis in what's actually been proposed, it's only a possibility if there's a low amount of stakers at the beginning, i.e. if the amount of ETH being staked is incredibly low, the few stakers (this is very very unlikely to say the least) will reap large block rewards.
    Also, it's genuinely not being given away for nothing - it's an incentive to secure the network by locking yourself into it.
    No incentive->no security->no network.
    Potential changes to the protocol have already been thought of and can quickly be made if inflation grows faster than expected in comparison to gas burned - higher gas burn rate possibly with a programmed ratio built in so it can activate once breached.

    The initial protocol for Casper is expected to be a hybrid of mining and PoS, eventually phasing mining out, but the lower the amount of ETH being staked the higher the percentage return per ETH. The more ETH gets staked, the gains decrease and will eventually lower to a point where people won't see much value in staking so they remove their ETH to spend or reinvest elsewhere and then the gains go up for people still staking.
    ETH's Ice Age has already begun, it's going to continue to generate lower returns (in terms of ETH issued) as time goes on and the ecosystem will continually calibrate itself back towards reasonable profit for stakers as those who aren't gaining enough in their own opinion will drop their position.

    This is one of the most interesting aspects of PoS for security: mounting an attack against PoS if it were introduced right now would currently cost billions of dollars in order to assert dominance and make the system unattractive to every other staker (hoping to cause a sell-off and devalue Ethereum).
    That amount in $ will likely go up and if it does hit the trillion mark you'd have to invest an amount close to or exceeding Ireland's GDP to effect a change drastic enough which would ultimately cause this ill-advised maneouvre to be rendered pointless - the devs and community would fork, change the protocol and the bad actor gets whipped. Same would happen with BTC.

    One point made continuously and erroneously is that only whales will be able to stake:
    Mining pools exist -> staking pool contracts will exist (with no need for a pool fee beyond the txs in/out).
    Staking pools can proliferate much faster than mining pools ever could because trusted contracts can literally be copied and pasted with a new reference address for people to gravitate towards so we'll see much greater decentralisation than is currently plausible through the current "buy small amount of hardware, mine in pool and pay fees" or "buy large amount of hardware, buy a warehouse in Iceland" models.
    Plus we won't be fücking the planet up.

    I'm interested to see how all of this plays out with a company like Hive hoarding ETH as they do. They'll have to make all the same economic calls that all the little guys will when the percentage gains are low, but they'll probably have mountains more patience on their side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭ greenfield21


    Looks like its only going one way. Will buy when hits $1.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Looks like its only going one way. Will buy when hits $1.

    Shares came out of lock up at 1.50 a couple of week ago, the next round were at 2.80. I think were still seeing the effects of the 1.50 financing.
    Next phase in Sweden is due online in a few weeks which may give some positive momentum. I think they made a bit of a mess the way Q3 results were presented. They were still good though and a higher P/E is still warranted.

    It's reassuring to hear the bears say they'll go long at some stage, are you going to short it down to a dollar :rolleyes:


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