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Biological males in women's sport

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    backspin. wrote: »
    You are right, but I think women should be leading the way on this. An internal battle needs to take place where ordinary women take on the crazy leftists among them. Those leftists can too easily dismiss men's opinions as patriarchal oppression. But they will have to face women head on.

    Have you seen those biatches!? No way I am taking crazy on. :) I would rather fight an ideologically possessed man than an ideologically possessed woman, to be honest.
    Look at the way Martina Navratilova has dealt with this. She was hotly abused, but she was so graceful. How she did not lash back I don't know, as she has been called terrible things. But she withdrew, did her research and came out with a moderate piece. She has the credentials, the history, the visible support of trans people in Renee. She has continued to have backlash and insult in spite of everything. But she also has boosted the conversation. Really, she is great.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    backspin. wrote: »
    How many men are on this thread? This is an issue that is going to destroy women's sports. Leave it to women to battle it out.

    Thanks for the tip but I won't let your ideology get in the way of me having toughts on something I'm involved in at the grassroots level in athletics.

    I'm open to discussion and correction on all aspects in it bar the comments which are aimed to shutdown opinion on generalities such as above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 921 ✭✭✭benjamin d


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    Thanks for the tip but I won't let your ideology get in the way of me having toughts on something I'm involved in at the grassroots level in athletics.

    I'm open to discussion and correction on all aspects in it bar the comments which are aimed to shutdown opinion on generalities such as above.

    There's no shortage of women voicing their opinion on this either. One of the women who podiumed in McKinnon's race was harangued into retracting the reservations she expressed over the result. Martina Navratilova suffered the dreaded Twitter pile-on that these types are fond of but in fairness stood her ground. That couldn't have been easy and for normal people to be vilified and have attempts made for them to lose their jobs and friends for going against the cause du jour of the SJW set can't be expected (btw I'm not fond of the term SJW but it's the best fit here).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Saw this. It is an extract from 2018 guidelines issued to various schools in the UK re trans children and the second extract is about sports. The schools create and publish their own guidelines but draw on central advisory bodies - so I have seen the same scenario guidelines included in different publications.
    Example - http://www.healthyshropshire.co.uk/assets/downloads/finaltrangenderguidancemarch2018.pdf

    D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    Basically the solution to girls having a problem with boys who identify as girls competing with them in school sports is that the girls do something else and be quiet.
    I cannot see how this will be easily worked out, without tears and trouble all round.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Zorya wrote: »
    Saw this. It is an extract from 2018 guidelines issued to various schools in the UK re trans children and the second extract is about sports. The schools create and publish their own guidelines but draw on central advisory bodies - so I have seen the same scenario guidelines included in different publications.
    Example - http://www.healthyshropshire.co.uk/assets/downloads/finaltrangenderguidancemarch2018.pdf

    D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    Basically the solution to girls having a problem with boys who identify as girls competing with them in school sports is that the girls do something else and be quiet.
    I cannot see how this will be easily worked out, without tears and trouble all round.

    You couldn't make this shiote up. What's gone wrong with society. It's a girls changing room, but if your not happy with a person with a penis getting changed beside you, get out. WTF.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    A biological man (and rapper) who was expressing as a woman on Tuesday broke a few women’s records in bench pressing and other weight lifting categories. She’s so brave.

    https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1100479924920561664


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    A biological man (and rapper) who was expressing as a woman on Tuesday broke a few women’s records in bench pressing and other weight lifting categories. She’s so brave.

    https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1100479924920561664

    Haha :D Just goes to show how much I know about weightlifting, I saw that deadlift tweet before, and I thought your man had failed because he didn't get it over his head and I was, ''Yeah?'', but watching it again, it must be that you just have to get it up to your knees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Zorya wrote: »
    Saw this. It is an extract from 2018 guidelines issued to various schools in the UK re trans children and the second extract is about sports. The schools create and publish their own guidelines but draw on central advisory bodies - so I have seen the same scenario guidelines included in different publications.
    Example - http://www.healthyshropshire.co.uk/assets/downloads/finaltrangenderguidancemarch2018.pdf

    D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    Basically the solution to girls having a problem with boys who identify as girls competing with them in school sports is that the girls do something else and be quiet.
    I cannot see how this will be easily worked out, without tears and trouble all round.
    that is deeply messed up. I hope someone is leaving a trail of breadcrumbs behind so we can find our way out of this forest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,577 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    backspin. wrote: »
    You are right, but I think women should be leading the way on this. An internal battle needs to take place where ordinary women take on the crazy leftists among them. Those leftists can too easily dismiss men's opinions as patriarchal oppression. But they will have to face women head on.

    Jesus.

    There are scientific reasons for not allowing biological men compete against biological women. Science leads the way on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    Zorya wrote: »

    Basically the solution to girls having a problem with boys who identify as girls competing with them in school sports is that the girls do something else and be quiet.
    I cannot see how this will be easily worked out, without tears and trouble all round.

    That is so messed up.

    And leaving the whole transgender aspect aside, at a time when countries are moving towards weight and height based grading for underage rugby - because it’s bith safer for kids and better for their skills development - it makes zero sense.
    It seems like a policy made up in complete isolation without regard for any other issues.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    https://twitter.com/DailySignal/status/1100812256735039488

    Yes, I know the Daily Signal, and Fox have a ''conservative'' bias. But one of the reasons one has to find this material on conservative-leaning platforms is that liberal or left leaning platforms hesitate to touch this stuff for fear of offending against the progressive catechism.

    The way Abigail has to express herself, wryly - ''yes, what used to be called women'' - makes this whole thing look like a parody. And yet this is where we are.


    And another...
    Robert Fausset, Olympic coach in Taekwondo, has a thread on endogenous v exogenous testosterone. Can be read here - https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1099400921505824768.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Jesus.

    There are scientific reasons for not allowing biological men compete against biological women. Science leads the way on this.

    There are an army of SJWs our there and they are controlling the message. The only way to beat them is a massive back lash from real women. Men and even science will not be enough to win this battle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,577 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    backspin. wrote: »
    There are an army of SJWs our there and they are controlling the message. The only way to beat them is a massive back lash from real women. Men and even science will not be enough to win this battle.

    There are large numbers of people who won't be convinced by anything.

    Science is objective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    I can't understand where is the glory for transwomen winning these races etc when everyone else then goes - sure they're biologically men, why wouldn't they win ? I mean I think the vast majority of people have no problem with trans adults but when they put themselves in races with women, are they not proving the point that they are not the same at all which is the very point they should want to avoid proving ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I can't understand where is the glory for transwomen winning these races etc when everyone else then goes - sure they're biologically men, why wouldn't they win ? I mean I think the vast majority of people have no problem with trans adults but when they put themselves in races with women, are they not proving the point that they are not the same at all which is the very point they should want to avoid proving ?

    The point is very much the battle between what activists such as Rachel McKinnon claims - ''I am a biological woman'' - and what the majority believe to be true. The utter elimination of any perceived differences between transwomen and biological women (also men etc) is very important to the ideology. Thus a transwoman should be allowed compete with birth women, full stop, no questions asked.

    This arena of sports is really just the public face of a very fierce ideological battle. It is good in a way, as it is bringing the contradictions to a head in a very public way.

    The battle exists because (I feel) people are terrified to be politcially incorrect - this is the present times bleeding edge of the Culture Wars that have been going on since the 1960s, and before probably. The war is over who gets the power to say what is morally right. Those who dare to question what the ''good'' progressives say is morally correct to think on the matter of transgenderism are demonised, regardless of science and fact.

    It's a big area. Huge really. Sports is one of the flash points.
    Maybe it is a way to weed out who will swallow 2+2=5, and who will not. They will have to pull off my finger nails, maybe then I will cave. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Zorya wrote: »
    Saw this. It is an extract from 2018 guidelines issued to various schools in the UK re trans children and the second extract is about sports. The schools create and publish their own guidelines but draw on central advisory bodies - so I have seen the same scenario guidelines included in different publications.
    Example - http://www.healthyshropshire.co.uk/assets/downloads/finaltrangenderguidancemarch2018.pdf

    D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0VxJ2AUwAAoV7D.jpg

    Basically the solution to girls having a problem with boys who identify as girls competing with them in school sports is that the girls do something else and be quiet.
    I cannot see how this will be easily worked out, without tears and trouble all round.

    I would tend to agree with the first item but disagree with the second.
    The changing room is divided by gender, the teams are divided by sex, so different answers for two different situations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Zorya wrote: »
    The point is very much the battle between what activists such as Rachel McKinnon claims - ''I am a biological woman'' - and what the majority believe to be true. The utter elimination of any perceived differences between transwomen and biological women (also men etc) is very important to the ideology. Thus a transwoman should be allowed compete with birth women, full stop, no questions asked.

    This arena of sports is really just the public face of a very fierce ideological battle. It is good in a way, as it is bringing the contradictions to a head in a very public way.

    The battle exists because (I feel) people are terrified to be politcially incorrect - this is the present times bleeding edge of the Culture Wars that have been going on since the 1960s, and before probably. The war is over who gets the power to say what is morally right. Those who dare to question what the ''good'' progressives say is morally correct to think on the matter of transgenderism are demonised, regardless of science and fact.

    It's a big area. Huge really. Sports is one of the flash points.
    Maybe it is a way to weed out who will swallow 2+2=5, and who will not. They will have to pull off my finger nails, maybe then I will cave. :)

    Exactly. In a way, let them at it. They're proving the opposite of their case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.bbc.com/sport/swimming/47428951

    Sharron Davies has come out in support of Navratalova's point of view. Good. Hopefully a few more well respected sports ppl will follow suit.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    AllForIt wrote: »
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/swimming/47428951

    Sharron Davies has come out in support of Navratalova's point of view. Good. Hopefully a few more well respected sports ppl will follow suit.

    Fair play to her, she’s brave for doing it, hopefully backlash won’t cause her to lose her job. It’s gone that nuts it could happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    girls robbed of first and second in a state championship final

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    Daley Thompson also backing Navratilova and Davies on Twitter. Hopefully the beginning of people speaking sense on this. The more high profile athletes come out in support, the less afraid people will be to speak their mind. I can understand current athletes difficulty in speaking up as they are labelled ‘sore losers’ as well as transphobes, so it’s great to see the greats come out.
    I wouldn’t want2b the person2sort this out but I think I’d follow my friends @Martina @sharrond62 and say that sport is only valid if played on a level playing field. I’d also look at a quote by Mr Spock “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,977 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Candamir wrote: »
    Daley Thompson also backing Navratilova and Davies on Twitter. Hopefully the beginning of people speaking sense on this. The more high profile athletes come out in support, the less afraid people will be to speak their mind. I can understand current athletes difficulty in speaking up as they are labelled ‘sore losers’ as well as transphobes, so it’s great to see the greats come out.

    Kelly Holmes and Nicola Adams also backed up Davies' tweet from yesterday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 210 ✭✭Ted Johnson


    Interesting to see the normies starting to get red pilled on the trans kult.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Gwynplaine


    A man dressed as a woman is still a man. Hormones and operations only change them slightly.
    If I dress up in a penguin outfit and start living in the freezer, it doesn't make me a penguin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Candamir wrote: »

    Good article, in that it accurately describes what has been happening.

    Only last week on this thread I said as a G I would like the separation of LGB and T activism and hey presto !
    Stonewall has been pushing for a change in legislation to allow people to self-identify their gender. In other words, any man could legally become a woman (and vice versa), without the need for verification from medics.

    But this has been contentious within LGBT circles and it appears the trans lobby’s hold on Stonewall might just be weakening. Some donors are deserting, the CEO has quit and leading gay equality campaigners are going public with their doubts about its adoption of the trans agenda.

    And they have no one to blame but themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    I see that article mentions mermaids. I'm surprised it hasn't been more widely reported that a person who works for the charity had someone brought to court for "transphobic abuse" the other day. The person accused is actually a transwoman herself and the accuser is not trans. Yes, a trans person accused of being transphobic by a non trans woman, and the police and CPS actually decided to pursue it.

    Luckily the judge saw sense and threw the case out. The woman from mermaids wanted to there to be reporting restrictions on the case and to remain anonymous also but that was denied too.

    But how did it even get to the point that charges were brought?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Twitter is single-handedly enabling the shutdown of *any* debate on this subject when facts are written.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    AllForIt wrote: »
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/swimming/47428951

    Sharron Davies has come out in support of Navratalova's point of view. Good. Hopefully a few more well respected sports ppl will follow suit.

    Thats good to hear, I hope they dont backtrack and apologize, im sick of people being shamed into apologizing for giving their opinion, especially when its the truth.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    Twitter is single-handedly enabling the shutdown of *any* debate on this subject when facts are written.
    that behaviour will ultimately be the end of twitter.

    that or it will be accepted and will herald in a horrific orwellian dystopian future


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