Disciplinary meeting queries

muckbrien

Hi
I've been asked to attend a disciplinary meeting at work.

The letter doesn't contain any specifics or evidence merely 'attitude and behavior'

Do i have the right to insist on seeing specific charges and evidence prior to the meeting?

Also the company have scheduled the meeting on my day off.
Can they make me attend on my day off or do I have the right to insist the meeting takes place during work time.

I'm not a union member,thanks for any help

Samuel T. Cogley

Solicitor straight away if you're looking to stay.

Is this an investigation meeting or an actual disciplinary meeting where the outcome is to be determined? If it's the latter see the first point.

muckbrien

Disciplinary meeting

I don't get on with my manager

Prior to this I've only had a verbal warning

_Brian

It’s very odd that they are scheduling it for your day off, I can’t see any reason they would do this, they either didn’t realise, are trying to save you from fellow workers seeing you attend this meeting, or they’re just being dicks !

I’d contact them and explain it’s your day off and your not available to come in due to other commitments. Ask for it to be scheduled on a working day.

Explain that you will be asking someone to come along as moral support, absolutely insist on this and if they refuse ask for the refusal in writing before the meeting happens.

Ask for the specifics of the allegations in advance. Again, if they refuse ask for that refusal in writing.


See below a link to the code of best practice referring to discipline.

In the first part it specifically says you are entitled to clear details on the allegations.
The forth part specified your entitlement to a representative there.

Even non unionised companies need to be adhering to this, if it proceeds to anything of an appeal or tribunal they will be expected to have followed these and if they haven’t it will reflect badly on them. That is why it’s important to ask for refusals in writing so you have them for the future. Also employers don’t like committing shady stuff like this to writing.


http://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/Good_Workplace_Relations/codes_practice/COP3/

EverythingGood

muckbrien wrote: »

Hi
I've been asked to attend a disciplinary meeting at work.

The letter doesn't contain any specifics or evidence merely 'attitude and behavior'

Do i have the right to insist on seeing specific charges and evidence prior to the meeting?

Also the company have scheduled the meeting on my day off.
Can they make me attend on my day off or do I have the right to insist the meeting takes place during work time.

I'm not a union member,thanks for any help

You have the right to take a colleague, he/she cant partake in anyway, or give any input, but they are there to take notes, and verify exactly what has been said. They can ask to clarify points, if required, to ensure accuracy.

HR / Management to not have to inform you of the contents of the meeting in advance.

muckbrien

I replied to the notice of a disciplinary hearing asking for written evidence and to have the meeting rescheduled

All I got back was a one page letter stating a list of complaints and a refusal to reschedule the meeting.

As the company has suddenly closed for the weekend(due to weather) I have no time to reply before the meeting on monday morning.I was intending to respond tomorrow.

_Brian

I’d say turn up Monday ready for the meeting. Don’t give them a chance to say you didn’t turn up or wouldn’t attend.

If your off work Monday will you be able to get a coworker to attend with you. I feel this is important, it will keep the meeting under control and have another person to back up your side of events if they try and pull a dodge.

Can I ask how long your with the company, if under a year you may be facing being let go.

muckbrien

_Brian wrote: »

I’d say turn up Monday ready for the meeting. Don’t give them a chance to say you didn’t turn up or wouldn’t attend.

If your off work Monday will you be able to get a coworker to attend with you. I feel this is important, it will keep the meeting under control and have another person to back up your side of events if they try and pull a dodge.

Can I ask how long your with the company, if under a year you may be facing being let go.

3 years but we sign new contracts every 12 months

Does that mean I can get dismissed easily?

Unlikely a co-worker will be available to attend

_Brian

No, if your 3 consequtive years you have protection and they need to follow due course.

It’s a desperate pity you can’t have someone with you.

It may be worth asking for it to be rescheduled but that might be hard at this stage.

Samuel T. Cogley

Have you contacted a solicitor yet (given the poor weather)?

muckbrien

Is there any point recording the meeting if i can't have a witness

Samuel T. Cogley

muckbrien wrote: »

Is there any point recording the meeting if i can't have a witness

Record it if you can, ideally without them knowing.

muckbrien

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Have you contacted a solicitor yet (given the poor weather)?

No
I'm not looking to stay long term just don't want to be sacked

davo10

muckbrien wrote: »

3 years but we sign new contracts every 12 months

Does that mean I can get dismissed easily?

Unlikely a co-worker will be available to attend

Are you working on fixed term contracts?

Samuel T. Cogley

muckbrien wrote: »

No
I'm not looking to stay long term just don't want to be sacked

A solicitor will be able to help you with an exit strategy. Personally I got a great reference and 6 months pay and a much more amicable parting of the ways. Without it I'd have been sacked and even though I was in the right would have found getting employment much harder.

Ronin247

I would send an email saying you cannot attend and asking them politely but firmly to arrange the work related meeting during your working hours. Ask them to supply you with a copy of the company disciplinary procedures and tell them in writing that you intend to record the meeting and will supply them with a copy of said recording for a nominal fee.

Do not let them bully you into accepting their terms for the meeting. They should have told you who will be attending the meeting and what the parameters are.

MissTheDome

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

A solicitor will be able to help you with an exit strategy.

Echo this. A good solicitor PRONTO.
You need to know exactly where you stand. Not "well some randomer on the internet said it so it must be true". Even if alot of the randomers here are very accurate .
This is your career, your income, your reputation. Whatever the cost - you need concrete advice.
Best of luck Monday.

muckbrien

Ronin247 wrote: »

I would send an email saying you cannot attend and asking them politely but firmly to arrange the work related meeting during your working hours. Ask them to supply you with a copy of the company disciplinary procedures and tell them in writing that you intend to record the meeting and will supply them with a copy of said recording for a nominal fee.

Do not let them bully you into accepting their terms for the meeting. They should have told you who will be attending the meeting and what the parameters are.

I already requested the meeting be moved and they refused
Not sure what I can do now

They say "failure to attend will result in appropriate further action being taken" in their correspondence

The employer has a reputation as a bully

OldMrBrennan83

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muckbrien

Patww79 wrote: »

You can refuse to go before speaking to a solicitor first and having a witness present. Tell them this as your reason for requiring rescheduling.

I'm concerned at this late stage about sanctions
if I try to move the meeting

I need the wages coming in and don't have the resources for solicitors

Samuel T. Cogley

muckbrien wrote: »

I need the wages coming in and don't have the resources for solicitors

That's a chicken and egg situation. A solicitor may end up saving you thousands. In my case not only did the company end up paying for my solicitor the fee was less than €250.

martingriff

Even though you are not a union member they may accommodate you.

jimmycrackcorm

_Brian wrote:

I’d say turn up Monday ready for the meeting. Don’t give them a chance to say you didn’t turn up or wouldn’t attend.

You do not have to attend on your day off unless they are incoming a condition on your contract that stays you have to be flexible with your working hours.

In which case you have to be given notice that you will be required to work that day and the meeting will take place during the working day. You cannot be made turn up to work when it's not a working day.

muckbrien wrote:

They say "failure to attend will result in appropriate further action being taken" in their correspondence

Somebody in their HR must be wet behind the ears. Their whole disiplinary process will be contaminated if they take any action because you aren't there on a scheduled day off.

All you have to do is email, not phone for the record, to say that you'll happily attend on a scheduled working day,.

As another player mentioned, do record the meeting on your phone. If there even is a hint that they are not pleased about you not turning up then it simply calls into question that any resultant disciplinary action is as a result of this. The WRC and Labour Court are on the side of workers and will not tolerate any employer who does not go by the book.

muckbrien

I've decided that I'm not going to attend the meeting during my day off

Is it sufficient that I originally told them I'm unavailable during my day off or do I need to reply again to their letter refusing to reschedule.

I'll send an email anyhow. I've never actually emailed them before so would have to Google the address and send it?

dudara

Definitely let them know in writing that, as you have already informed them, you are unable to attend due to it being a day off and you having other commitments. Also state that you are available for the remainder of the week for a rescheduled meeting. That puts it back on them, and their intransigence will not look good.

muckbrien

Thanks

The company first scheduled a disciplinary meeting during worktime last week,they gave me 24 hrs notice.

I told my manager this was unacceptable and that's when they rescheduled the meeting to a day off.

I then told them in writing I was unavailable during my time off and they refused to reschedule

The company is closed due to the weather since so I'm not quite sure where I stand.


.

Frowzy

muckbrien wrote: »

Thanks

The company first scheduled a disciplinary meeting during worktime last week,they gave me 24 hrs notice.

I told my manager this was unacceptable and that's when they rescheduled the meeting to a day off.

I then told them in writing I was unavailable during my time off and they refused to reschedule

The company is closed due to the weather since so I'm not quite sure where I stand.


.

They do seems to be uncooperative here!

(1) Firstly, do you have a copy of the companies disciplinary procedure? They should have given you a copy with the request to attend the meeting, in any case it should be available to staff on a shared drive or on the intranet.

(2) you do not have to attend on your day off. You applied for a day off which was authorised by your line manager and HR would have been informed. It seems sloppy that they didn’t check this before scheduling the meeting and I suspect that they are embarrassed at the mistake and are trying to intimidate you to attend.
You’re within your rights here assuming you didn’t apply for the leave after you received notice of the meeting and you applied for the leave as per your staff procedures.

(3) You shouldn’t have had to request additional information on the meeting from them. When they asked you to attend the meeting they should have supplied you with an agenda and a list of attendees. Always request an agenda for a meeting such as this. It’s helpful as it stops them bringing up unrelated incidents from the past as if they do “spring” anything on you in a meeting you can refuse to discuss as it’s not on the agenda.

(4) Unless you have the direct email address of the HR manager I wouldn’t email just any address you find on the internet as random email accounts may not be checked, or may be checked/read by your peers. You are entitled to privacy in this matter.
If the company is within reasonable distance I would write a letter and drop it in the letterbox over the weekend, or simply leave a voice message on the HR managers phone stating
(a) that you have leave approved since ....... date and ..... notice was not sufficient to reschedule your plans.
(b) that you will make yourself available for a meeting at any other workday that is acceptable to them.
(c) you require an agenda for the meeting and a list of attendees at least 24 hours before the rescheduled date.
(d) you request that they furnish you with a copy of their approved and published disciplinary policy at least 24 hours before the rescheduled date (if they have not already done so)

(5) do not record the meeting without their knowledge, it’s illegal. See what the policy says about having someone attend, but if say the meeting is rescheduled for Tuesday and they haven’t given you an opportunity to arrange for a work colleague to attend with you to witness the meeting then by all means bring a recorder, but don’t be sneaky about it. I had a whole process dismissed before by doing this! I started the recording, stated the date and time and names of everyone present and as anyone spoke I said for the benefit of the recording that was ...... speaking. They were all too uncomfortable to speak so the person being disciplined ended up getting a don’t do it again.

Do everything by the book. Only you know why they are calling you in. You will know yourself if this is gross misconduct and therefore a sackable offence. Be realistic, if you think they are right then do try everything you can to prolong the process to give you a chance to find something else or be upfront and tell them that you will resign if they will let you have two months paid notice to find something else.

Join a union! You get free representation in matters like this for a nominal amount per month.

Best of Luck!

davo10

Op, are you on a fixed term contract? This is very important.

amtc

If you need the name of a good employment solicitor (who's not that expensive) pm me

zetor

It would be helpful if you could have a work buddy with you , they dont have to say anything, also there should be a procedure for disipiline , stage 1 verbal, stage 2 written , stage 3 , suspension etc , so you could be looking at stage 2, maby you will only get a telling off and asked what the issues are which could be seen to affect your work performance, this is where a trade union kicks in , unfortunately you dont have union rep fighting your corner but you still have employment laws which protect you, anyway best of luck.

OldMrBrennan83

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