My frame is killing my chances with females

LegacyUser

I workout and ****, I'm in alright shape(Objectively I'm in pretty good shape but nothing that is gonna wow anyone) however i have a small frame so I never really look like I work out. I just feel that it's a huge deterrent and I'm not viewed as manly due to my frame. I'm 5'8'' but I feel I look a little shorter due to having a stocky type body(short legs and arms)

I don't know what to do, females don't so much as look at me. I spent 50 minutes in the club seething on Friday night, throwing daggers at every female who walked past. I've tried to be a positive, fun guy but never manifests in cold hard results.

Neyite

FOREVERALONE2018 wrote: »

I don't know what to do, females don't so much as look at me. I spent 50 minutes in the club seething on Friday night, throwing daggers at every female who walked past. I've tried to be a positive, fun guy but never manifests in cold hard results.

It's not your frame that's causing your lack of success. People are very perceptive and women are hardly going to throw a 'chat me up' glance at a bloke that's glaring angrily at every woman that walks past.

Why are you seething?

Xterminator

Hi Op

Please dont take this advice the wrong way. It's not your frame. its your state of mind, and how you come across.

There are some red flags in your post.

I spent 50 minutes in the club seething on Friday night, throwing daggers at every female who walked past.

&

but never manifests in cold hard results.

sounds a little obsessive and angry to me.

The fact your sure it your 'frame', makes me think you need to look long and hard at yourself - but not in the mirror. You need to examine what has lead you to believe your body shape is 'whats wrong' with you.

You need to understand that a nice confidant man who is friendly and kind will be seen as better boyfriend material than a ripped body obsessed man who stares daggers at strangers.

do you have any female friends who you could talk with ? You seem to have a unbalanced perception of what is important, and why your are not having relationship success.

perhaps a good starting point would be to read a good book on relationships. you dont seem t have any insight into what a potential partner would look for?

strandroad

It's not your frame, it's your attitude. You keep referring to women as females, admit to glowering at them in public places... why would they want to talk to you at all?

Bambi985

Women are not "cold, hard results". They are humans that pick up on things they like and things they don't like just like you do. Treating them like they're some sort of sub-human prize to be won based on working out enough or a different species that you entitled to "pull" to bolster your own fragile ego tells me everything about why you're not attracting them.

We don't like that. We also don't like bitter, angry men with low self-esteem tied into how much they don't get "cold, hard results". Try treating them like humans and bringing something more to the table than how much you work out and things might change.

Or don't. You could always just continue glaring at women in clubs for not looking your way. That's definitely going to work...

Bunny Colvin

In fairness to the OP, maybe he was just having a bad night in the club and doesn't always behave like that? That's understandable. But the advice you've received here is correct. Be positive, if you can't do that then act it.

Ursus Horribilis

Maybe nightclubs aren't for you?

Pluto Planet

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Maybe nightclubs aren't for you?

That is a defeatist attitude, attracting and seducing women is a skill you can learn.

OP, by the sounds of it your mindset is the main problem, not your height. For a start I would say let go of the need to pull for a minute. Focus on expressing yourself authentically. Share your authentic personality, rather than trying to "get something" from people. See the light hearted and fun side if the world.

Ursus Horribilis

Pluto Planet wrote: »

That is a defeatist attitude, attracting and seducing women is a skill you can learn.

Oh ,are we in pick up artist territory here?

Neyite

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Oh ,are we in pick up artist territory here?

I hope not. Because that is forbidden by the charter to discuss here...;)

cruizer101

FOREVERALONE2018 wrote: »

I don't know what to do, females don't so much as look at me.

To be fair in general men have to do the approaching of women, even if decent looking.

Your frame has little to do with it, confidence and a fun, positive attitude will attract far more women than good looks but bad attitude. I'm not saying that is easy mind but you need to change your attitude a bit to start with anyway.

silverharp

Basically OP your aim seems to be to become a nite club douche, its very superficial and within a few years most women would treat you like a joke. If you want to avoid getting angry towards women you need to pivot in a new direction. Take up some social or sports activities where you can see women as individuals and take it from there.

Dial Hard

Perhaps start by referring to them as women, not females.

kylith

silverharp wrote: »

Basically OP your aim seems to be to become a nite club douche, its very superficial and within a few years most women would treat you like a joke. If you want to avoid getting angry towards women you need to pivot in a new direction. Take up some social or sports activities where you can see women as individuals and take it from there.

This is good advice. Learn to socialise with women in a non-sexual way and it will stand you in good stead. Your current attitude of hating yourself and hating women will get you nowhere but in a downward spiral.

Mr. Incognito

Hello there

I'm 5'7 and stockier than you. Currently benching 100kg and squatting 120Kg so I'm no shrinking violet and I've been knocking it out of the park for years with the ladies

The secret is confidence. That's all there is too it. People are attracted to confident people. Work on yourself, your hobbies and interests.

I play music, write, work a lot, travel, hike, and date and have dated stunning looking women who are sound. Because I am sound.

Water attracts its own level. Work on yourself and people will respond to that self confidence.

And I havent stepped foot in a night club in years.

ManOfMystery

FOREVERALONE2018 wrote: »

I workout and ****, I'm in alright shape(Objectively I'm in pretty good shape but nothing that is gonna wow anyone) however i have a small frame so I never really look like I work out. I just feel that it's a huge deterrent and I'm not viewed as manly due to my frame. I'm 5'8'' but I feel I look a little shorter due to having a stocky type body(short legs and arms)

I don't know what to do, females don't so much as look at me. I spent 50 minutes in the club seething on Friday night, throwing daggers at every female who walked past. I've tried to be a positive, fun guy but never manifests in cold hard results.

Your looks are not the issue here. You're not obese, abnormally tall, abnormally short, or malnourished looking - by your own admission, you're in good shape. Even if you were those things, that would still not preclude you from meeting a partner. 

All over the world there are skinny men, fat men, old men, ugly men, short men, all types of men who have managed to have relationships. Looks are an important factor in initial attraction, but they are not the only factor. And to some potential partners, they are low down the priority list. 

Take some of that gym time and spend it instead on working on your confidence, your demeanour, and your attitude. These are the things which seem to be causing your problem, not looks.

Pluto Planet

Practice approaching woman and just chatting and being friendly, nothing else, just chat and then leave.

qwerty13

Your attitude in your post came off really really badly towards women. Pretty repulsive. Let’s just say that you feel let down in your dating history, and that you had a temporary women-hating moment. The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about, that you actually despise women.

You seem to think of women as conquests. And take rejection incredibly badly. To me, that says that you aren’t happy in yourself, and you aren’t ready for a relationship. There’s something just not right in your views. I don’t believe that you see women as equal partners. I really do believe that you need to sort yourself out before you could have a decent relationship

Big Bag of Chips

One of my exes was about 5'6. He was quite stocky, (had a bit of a beer belly!) but other than my now husband he is really the only other boyfriend I truly loved. He was funny, kind, popular with his friends, he was so relaxed and easy going, his family were relaxed and welcoming, and he made me feel loved.

My boyfriend before him was probably 5' 11" and quite skinny, played hurling etc. Shape and size have little to do with how attractive you are. It's all about what sort of person you project. Women don't owe you attention. Going to the gym doesn't mean much. My husband has never set foot in one, yet we're together 18 years. Change your attitude and you might find your luck changes.

woodchuck

OP if you want to work out, do it for yourself, not in an attempt to attract women. I hate to break it to you, but a lot of women don't care about muscles on guys...

I agree with others that it's more about attitude than looks.

Also, clubs aren't a great place to meet women, unless you're just looking for a fling. Do you have any hobbies that get you out mingling? Have you tried online dating?

leggo

FOREVERALONE2018 wrote: »

I don't know what to do, females don't so much as look at me. I spent 50 minutes in the club seething on Friday night, throwing daggers at every female who walked past.

Read those two lines OP, over and over. If this is what you're doing, WHY do you expect women to be throwing themselves at the aggressive looking lad in the corner?!

Truth is, you're in a rut and this is a symptom of that. Forget about women and 'cold hard results' for a bit. Stop trying to work out and 'be sound' with the goal of attracting people, these people aren't dumb, they can see right through that stuff and it comes across as desperate. Become comfortable in yourself, someone that's interesting, happy in his own skin and others want to be around where you're currently bitter and aggressive-seeming. Your 'cold hard results' will improve instantly.

Airyfairy12

If people arent responding to you the way youd like then maybe have a look at your personality and mind set and ask yourself is there anything you could work on or improve? Ill make some suggestions to get you started..
1. You could drop the sexist attitude and try to see 'females' as actual real people with emotions, thoughts, autonomy etc.
2. You might not realise youre sexist but thats because you lack self awareness - this would be a great place to start evaluating your mindset and how you perceive yourself and others. Youre very insecure and it sounds like youre projecting your own self hatred onto other people (mostly women) by blaming them for how you feel, explicitly referring to women as 'females' and having feelings of anger towards them for not giving you sexual attention is sexist and worrying behaviour imo. As a general rule to keep in mind nobody owes you anything and that includes sex or relationships.
3. You could try to learn how to take rejection in a positive way - some counselling would be great in this respect as difficulties with rejection often stem from low self esteem which is an obvious issue for you judging by your post.

HumbleBumble

I'm not sure what you meant by cold hard results. I'll assume you're there trying to get lucky by the use of that language. In fairness I don't think women in clubs are just going to start throwing themselves at some seething angry guy glaring at them walking by.

If I saw someone you just described I'd avoid them too. Maybe you should adjust your attitude a little.

LegacyUser

My husband is 5ft8inches and I would never have looked at his frame when we met he just genuinely a nice person we married 34 years u need to lighten up and enjoy life I'm 5ft6inches

LolaJJ

I used to say guys who were under 5ft 10" were too short for me. It was a serious deal breaker.....;)

My current boyfriend is 5ft 6", doesn't work out. But...He is really confident and a really great, kind, fun, genuine person. I would have been doing myself SUCH a disservice to let his height stop me from falling in love with him.

The point is, no one really cares, even the girls who think they care...they don't actually care. Just be you, be fun, be confident. Standing angrily in pubs is just standing in your own way

hsjsj

Op you're frame isn't the problem, you just need to learn to love what you have, confidence is the most attractive thing anyway

LegacyUser

OP here,

Thanks for replies, it took me a while to log back in here.

TBH, there is probably a degree of coping blaming in on my frame entirely(also it is certainty a factor), I am also probably not as facially attractive as I think anyway(I just judge myself off best pics and not my awful selfies or what I look like in bad lighting, I just assume how the public sees me is how I look in my best pictures)

Personality wise, I can't change much tbh. I am losing my enthusiasm and rush of liking girls because I know inevitably they won't feel the same. Only recently I messaged a girl in the AM that I used to like a few years ago and she replied politely but swerved my obvious advances. It was pretty brutal. I thought my 'transformation' meant I just had to have 'confidence' to approach and she would reciprocate. Just further compounded that these girls don't like me, because if they did they would make their intentions clear.

My personality is terrible but I also think it's a two way street. It's terrible in a I'm just a regular guy who likes music and football and can't flirt for **** type of way. If a girl was reciprocal to my humour and demeanour I would buzz of them and be able to have a good rapport but girls are ambivalent towards me. I know that. I've seen guys who aren't funny that girls call funny because they are attracted to them.

witchgirl26

OP I'm going to go through some of your points individually below.

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

OP here,

Thanks for replies, it took me a while to log back in here.

TBH, there is probably a degree of coping blaming in on my frame entirely(also it is certainty a factor), I am also probably not as facially attractive as I think anyway(I just judge myself off best pics and not my awful selfies or what I look like in bad lighting, I just assume how the public sees me is how I look in my best pictures)

While attractiveness is important to a degree to attract someone to you initially, what one person finds attractive can vary massively to what someone else will. I think you're getting too hung up here on the physical appearance aspect. As many have noted previously, frame has flip all to do with a lot of why someone ends up with someone else. Likewise, I have a very different "type" to that of my best friend. We would rarely find the same guy attractive.

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

Personality wise, I can't change much tbh. I am losing my enthusiasm and rush of liking girls because I know inevitably they won't feel the same. Only recently I messaged a girl in the AM that I used to like a few years ago and she replied politely but swerved my obvious advances. It was pretty brutal. I thought my 'transformation' meant I just had to have 'confidence' to approach and she would reciprocate. Just further compounded that these girls don't like me, because if they did they would make their intentions clear.

Ok just because you changed how you appear physically does not mean that girls will reciprocate if they don't want to. If she politely swerved it then it wasn't brutal - she's just not interested. That doesn't mean someone else won't be but no one is under an obligation to find you attractive just because you've worked out. If you go forward with the idea though that inevitably a girl won't like you then you will not attract anyone because that in itself is unattractive. It's a cliche but you have to love yourself before someone can love you.

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

My personality is terrible but I also think it's a two way street. It's terrible in a I'm just a regular guy who likes music and football and can't flirt for **** type of way. If a girl was reciprocal to my humour and demeanour I would buzz of them and be able to have a good rapport but girls are ambivalent towards me. I know that. I've seen guys who aren't funny that girls call funny because they are attracted to them.

What is terrible about being a regular guy?! Most girls, including myself, that's all we really want. A guy who has interests that he's passionate about, things he enjoys doing and an ability to chat about them.

So maybe you've been trying with the wrong type of girls. The only demeanour you've mentioned is glaring at girls in a club which isn't going to get any girl to want to be reciprocal at all.

OP it sounds like you're trying to be something you're not sometimes with this and that can be very unattractive. Instead of trying to be funny and make girls get your humour, just be genuine and talk to them like they're normal people about your interests, about theirs and find common ground. Chat up lines and trying too hard to be funny aren't going to get most girls interested as it says nothing much about you as a person so ditch that if that's what you're doing.

baby and crumble

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

Personality wise, I can't change much tbh. I am losing my enthusiasm and rush of liking girls because I know inevitably they won't feel the same.

You're in the middle of a self-fulfilling prophecy so. If it's "inevitable" they won't like you, then you're not making any effort to like them or engage meaningfully with them. Why would anyone find that attractive?

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

Only recently I messaged a girl in the AM that I used to like a few years ago and she replied politely but swerved my obvious advances. It was pretty brutal.

Ok well, was this out of the blue for her? I can't really blame her if so, getting random "Obvious advances" from a dude she knew a few years ago is hardly going to get her motor running. Also being polite isn't 'brutal'.

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

I thought my 'transformation' meant I just had to have 'confidence' to approach and she would reciprocate. Just further compounded that these girls don't like me, because if they did they would make their intentions clear.

So you basically think all women just want a hot muscle dude? If that was the case, no gym bunnies would be single, ever, and no-one like me would ever be with anyone. A 'trasnformation' means nothing to people, not as much as it does to the person who has done the transformation. You may have worked very hard to look like you do now, but so what?

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

It's terrible in a I'm just a regular guy who likes music and football and can't flirt for **** type of way. If a girl was reciprocal to my humour and demeanour I would buzz of them and be able to have a good rapport but girls are ambivalent towards me. I know that.

99% of straight women are with guys exactly like you describe. They have things they are interested in, and just live their lives, just without expecting women to fall at their feet because they work out. Women are often accused of being shallow, when it's obvious they're not. Otherwise the objectively "good looking" people would all be partnered up.

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

I've seen guys who aren't funny that girls call funny because they are attracted to them.

They aren't funny to you, OP. They obviously are to other people. All you have to do is look at the popularity of certain comeidans to know that just like look, "funny" is subjective. I can't think of anythign worse than to have to sit through a set from Frankie Boyle, for example. But he's very popular.

It must be hard to have done all that work physically and fall short of what you had imagined. I think it might be time to take a look inward, at your personality. You say it can't be changed- I don't agree. I have met people from school 10 years after doing the leaving cert and they are totally different people. Sometimes for good, sometimes bad.

Neyite

Originally Posted by HitMeLikeaHurricane
It's terrible in a I'm just a regular guy who likes music and football and can't flirt for **** type of way. If a girl was reciprocal to my humour and demeanour I would buzz of them and be able to have a good rapport but girls are ambivalent towards me. I know that.

You sound like my partner then.

Is it possibly when you are talking to women you are trying too hard to impress /be witty and it's coming across as awkward and clunky and a bit off putting? Nervousness can make that worse too.

Sincerity and good listening skills would work way more in your favour.

Humour is very subjective. I found in my dating years that often what a bloke would think as humour was actually lad-banter and while he thought he was impressing me with his wit, I was actually bored and uncomfortable at him jumping in to take the piss out of stuff like he might with his best mate and usually would write them off as being juvenile. I'm not saying women have a different sense of humour but you tailor the humour to the recipient and err on the side of caution.

Teyla Emmagan

Do you know what women like? Men who like women. Not men who want to shag women, but men that like being with us and listening to us and talking rubbish with us and making us laugh. And you don't need to be gorgeous to manage any of that. But you will need to start trying to get to know women for themselves, not just as bodies.

Big Bag of Chips

^This. A thousand times this.

Every boyfriend I ever had was a friend first. I know things are a bit different now and it seems to be about dating people you don't know etc. But if you can get to know women outside of just wanting to end up in a relationship with them then you are more likely to find someone you like, who likes you too, and who you click with.

The gym is fine, but it's not exactly a great place for meeting people. You need a more sociable outlet. Somewhere where men and women interact on a level that's not purely about 'cold hard results'. I always suggest drama groups. You don't have to want to be in stage. There are hundreds of jobs that need to be done in the background.

Make a few friends first, and then see where that leads.

LegacyUser

Honestly, I am not very sexually driven, I just like the feeling of being liked, you know? I used to be a bit of a romantic 8 years ago but I am definitely a lot more pragmatic now. I don't want LOVE, I wanted to be admired and someone that is desirable. That's it.
D-E-S-I-R-A-B-L-E.

I don't hate 'females' or see them as 'results' but in this context and in my scenario that's what it has become. Believe me, I would love nothing more than catch the gaze of a girl I am into, her to smile at me and have a great real conversation and take things from one thing to the next but it's just not how it works it seems.

BTW I never come across witty or try to, I just try to come across as sound. I'm too low IQ to be witty or charming.

I know what you're saying about humour being subjective but come on, it's always the same. It seems to be the same guys that are seen as funny(not comedian funny, but flirty attractive funny)

The gym of course isn't a precursor to being attractive. It's more facial attractiveness but I actually thought I had a handsome face and sometimes I do(depends on picture) and when I post pictures online I get told I'm way above average, legit hot, look like a cocky frat boy lmao, conventionally attractive. But I don't think this is what I look like or obviously isn't since based on these replies I should be beating off the girls with a stick.

I am also scared I'm gonna lose my looks because I'm just getting older and if I couldn't get girls in my peak, what chance will I have later :O

Long Straddle

HitMeLikeaHurricane wrote: »

OP here,

Thanks for replies, it took me a while to log back in here.

TBH, there is probably a degree of coping blaming in on my frame entirely(also it is certainty a factor), I am also probably not as facially attractive as I think anyway(I just judge myself off best pics and not my awful selfies or what I look like in bad lighting, I just assume how the public sees me is how I look in my best pictures)

Personality wise, I can't change much tbh. I am losing my enthusiasm and rush of liking girls because I know inevitably they won't feel the same. Only recently I messaged a girl in the AM that I used to like a few years ago and she replied politely but swerved my obvious advances. It was pretty brutal. I thought my 'transformation' meant I just had to have 'confidence' to approach and she would reciprocate. Just further compounded that these girls don't like me, because if they did they would make their intentions clear.

My personality is terrible but I also think it's a two way street. It's terrible in a I'm just a regular guy who likes music and football and can't flirt for **** type of way. If a girl was reciprocal to my humour and demeanour I would buzz of them and be able to have a good rapport but girls are ambivalent towards me. I know that. I've seen guys who aren't funny that girls call funny because they are attracted to them.

Women can sense your neediness and approval seeking. As an experiment practice approaching women with the rule that you aren't allowed ask them out, if they ask you out tell them you're not interested. You only goal is to have fun.

lawred2

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Hello there

I'm 5'7 and stockier than you. Currently benching 100kg and squatting 120Kg so I'm no shrinking violet and I've been knocking it out of the park for years with the ladies

The secret is confidence. That's all there is too it. People are attracted to confident people. Work on yourself, your hobbies and interests.

I play music, write, work a lot, travel, hike, and date and have dated stunning looking women who are sound. Because I am sound.

Water attracts its own level. Work on yourself and people will respond to that self confidence.

And I havent stepped foot in a night club in years.

I cracked up at 'Because I am sound'

david75

‘Females’.
I couldn’t get past that hardly but the rest of your post only made it worse.
With any luck you’ll continue to struggle as long as you have that atiitude.

You need a serious attitude adjustment and start learning how to respect women.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I'm aware of the irony of this but GET OFF THE INTERNET. Whatever websites and subreddits you're reading, stop. Try not to take a picture of yourself for whatever seems like a reasonable but challenging amount of time. Limit your social media.

You say you've tried being a confident and fun guy but it hasn't gotten results. So you haven't really tried to be a confident and fun guy, you've tried to project that image to get yourself some puss. Women see that straight the fcuk away. Wouldn't it be nice to actually be a fun and confident guy? Wouldn't a fun and confident mind be much nicer to live in, leaving aside romance and sex?

You are only one of a seemingly infinite amount of young men who need it explained to them that there is no universal cheat code for women*. Improving yourself, your life etc will increase your chances in a general way but it does not mean that any specific girl, even one you really like, will like you. Romantic rejection is awful, it never really gets easy, but we all have to learn to deal with it. Politely swerving away from a come-on is not "brutal".

I think you've gotten to the point where this is kind of like insomnia. You know where you lie awake night after night trying to sleep? The more you try, the worse it gets.

You need to shift your focus for a while. Work on your interests, your career, some other part of your life. Not, I repeat *NOT* to get a ride or a girlfriend, but for yourself.

Finding love is mostly sheer blind luck. You can't force it, you can't engineer it, you can't input a,b,c and out comes s,e,x. What you can do is be in the best shape possible for if it does come along. Be interesting. Like women. Relax!

*although definitely it won't hurt to never ever call women females.

HandsomeBob

lawred2 wrote: »

I cracked up at 'Because I am sound'

I thought so too, David Brent popped into my mind for some reason. =]

OP I think you just need to relax and stop focusing on "wanting to be" in the eyes of others.

I know previous posters are saying be a number of things like fun, witty and confident, but you can't force something you're not and you can smell such acts from a mile away.

Maybe find other outlets to meet people under than nightclubs and just get to know people instead of having "scoring" at the forefront of your mind. My fondest memories of connecting with people was when I wasn't even expecting or trying to make something happen.

LegacyUser

Oh did I mention that every girl has swerved on me hard. They like me and then boom, as soon as they get with me they lose the attraction straight away....I'm guessing because even though I've slept with like 5 girls I've never actually done anything beyond what second base(with use of my fingers sorry for the details) Girls don't want VIRGINS. ****. It's brutal. All my friends buy condoms and I've never bought them in my life. It's so sad. 28 years old. It's not cute or endearing anymore lol. There is a funny side to this but just can't believe it's the faith that befell me. Just like some are born poor and in horrible conditions, I was born without that spark to connect with girls. The adage it is what it is is what scares me.

Also I don't think I am disrespectful tonwomen, maybe I'm too respectful of anything. One time I had an 18 year old crush on me and I didn't do anything because she was just a kid(I was 26) that's not the actions of a guy who hates women

witchgirl26

CATEGORY5 wrote: »

Honestly, I am not very sexually driven, I just like the feeling of being liked, you know? I used to be a bit of a romantic 8 years ago but I am definitely a lot more pragmatic now. I don't want LOVE, I wanted to be admired and someone that is desirable. That's it.
D-E-S-I-R-A-B-L-E.

Ok so you want to be desirable? So does everyone else. But being physically attractive doesn't automatically equal desirable. And what's the point of being desirable if you don't want love? The main point of trying to be desirable is to find love with someone who desires you and you desire them.

CATEGORY5 wrote: »

I don't hate 'females' or see them as 'results' but in this context and in my scenario that's what it has become. Believe me, I would love nothing more than catch the gaze of a girl I am into, her to smile at me and have a great real conversation and take things from one thing to the next but it's just not how it works it seems.

It's not. You're just being overly cynical. You contradict yourself by saying you don't see them as results but that is exactly what you go on to say you see them as. If you don't stop then it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is how it works - I don't think things have changed that much. Why can't you catch her eye & smile at her and start the conversation. I waited for the guy I liked to do that and eventually thought "he's not going to so why don't I". Worked out pretty good for me.

CATEGORY5 wrote: »

BTW I never come across witty or try to, I just try to come across as sound. I'm too low IQ to be witty or charming.

I know what you're saying about humour being subjective but come on, it's always the same. It seems to be the same guys that are seen as funny(not comedian funny, but flirty attractive funny)

They're the ones who aren't trying to be anything they're not.

CATEGORY5 wrote: »

The gym of course isn't a precursor to being attractive. It's more facial attractiveness but I actually thought I had a handsome face and sometimes I do(depends on picture) and when I post pictures online I get told I'm way above average, legit hot, look like a cocky frat boy lmao, conventionally attractive. But I don't think this is what I look like or obviously isn't since based on these replies I should be beating off the girls with a stick.

Step away from the selfies and pictures and stop being so focused on looks. Being that focused on them is a huge turn off for 90% of people I know. Taking an interest in your looks is one thing and presenting yourself well but not where the focus should be. Look at all the conventionally good looking men who are famous who are terminally single. Yes they're good looking but at the end of the day it all comes down to personality and that will always be the most attractive feature of anyone.

CATEGORY5 wrote: »

I am also scared I'm gonna lose my looks because I'm just getting older and if I couldn't get girls in my peak, what chance will I have later :O

Oh for the love of......seriously re-read this and try to understand how someone who is that caught up in their attractiveness and looks may not be the most appealing.

Plus a lot of guys get better looking as they get older.

baby and crumble

Honestly, OP, I do sort of know how you feel. By that, I know how hard it is to feel like nobody wants you, especially physically.

BUT I read your posts and actually they're not making my annoyed, or anything, moreso sad. Sad because you have it in your head that only good looking people are attractive. That's just not true.

I think the fact that you get comments on SM about being 'hot' etc feed into this. But the problem, I rekcon, isn't your looks. It's how you come across in person. That can;t be judged online too easily, but on this thread you do honestly come across as "hard work". I mean you're expecting women to want to be with you but you have major hangups about your IQ, sense of humour, and interests.

So honestly, use the determination and work ethic you obviously have (if you work out in the gym, trust me you have a work ethic that many of us don't possess!) to make changes in your personal life.

Try a new hobby, one that isn't physical based. No sports. Try something creative like a pottery class (I met lots of folks through mine and developed my creative side), woodwork, painting. Maybe learn to cook a few really lovely meals from scratch at home. Join a book club, find an author you really like. Find an interest and just enjoy it. Everyone needs to develop all the different sides to their personality in order to be attractive to other people.

And please, stop making women out to be some mysterious "group" that all think the same thing. We're not. 9 times out of 10 we just want to spend time with people we like, are nice, have a passion for something, and make us think and laugh. You'd be really surprised the amount of people - and this definitely stands for a lot of my female friends- that start to fancy someone after they spend time with them, not before.

witchgirl26

5moremins wrote: »

Oh did I mention that every girl has swerved on me hard. They like me and then boom, as soon as they get with me they lose the attraction straight away....

OP honestly that does sound like there isn't a problem attracting girls initially with looks but that it more is coming down to your personality and what you're like after that initial attraction. Which actually is the bit that is a bit easier to change than the physical. You need to work on your own confidence in your personality and who you are (ignoring all the physical parts) so that you aren't solely relying on looks to get you anywhere. It has nothing to do with how many girls you've been with or not been with. Actually if you're bringing that up it can be a turn off. Not because you're a virgin or anything but because of your insecurities around it. Own it. It is what it is.

5moremins wrote: »

Also I don't think I am disrespectful tonwomen, maybe I'm too respectful of anything. One time I had an 18 year old crush on me and I didn't do anything because she was just a kid(I was 26) that's not the actions of a guy who hates women

That's not being too respectful, that's just being a decent enough guy. Although that said I went out with a 24 year old when I was 18 so I don't see that as being a big thing. Once someone is over 18, they're an adult.

I don't think you hate women but you have an odd notion about women and what they're looking for and you do come across as a bit angry about your lack of success with women and somewhat placing the cause of that anywhere but at what you can change yourself.

baby and crumble

5moremins wrote: »

Oh did I mention that every girl has swerved on me hard. They like me and then boom, as soon as they get with me they lose the attraction straight away....

Honestly man, that sounds like something you're doing after getting with them is turning them off. I'm not going to tell you what that is but if you're attracting women enough for them to make out with you, then your looks are CLEARLY not the problem.

5moremins wrote: »

I'm guessing because even though I've slept with like 5 girls I've never actually done anything beyond what second base(with use of my fingers sorry for the details) Girls don't want VIRGINS. ****.

Most girls don't care. Honestly. I was a virgin until I was 21 and I've never done anything sexual with any other woman than my wife. So what?

5moremins wrote: »

It's brutal. All my friends buy condoms and I've never bought them in my life. It's so sad. 28 years old. It's not cute or endearing anymore lol. There is a funny side to this but just can't believe it's the faith that befell me. Just like some are born poor and in horrible conditions, I was born without that spark to connect with girls. The adage it is what it is is what scares me.

That's utter and total bull****. You're still thinking about women as a different specific that you have to have spark with to connect to. It's nonsense.

5moremins wrote: »

Also I don't think I am disrespectful tonwomen, maybe I'm too respectful of anything. One time I had an 18 year old crush on me and I didn't do anything because she was just a kid(I was 26) that's not the actions of a guy who hates women

There is NO SUCH THING as TOO RESPECTFUL. You're veering into the "I'm too nice, women only like assholes" territory and that is a big problem.

There's only so much advice you can get on a thread like this OP. Like I said, and like most people have said, you're blaming lots of things for your problems and not actually looking and reflecting deeply on how you can change.

Until you stop blaming anythign and everything, you'll get nowhere. Best of luck though.

LegacyUser

It's very easy to clutch at straws and tow the whole typical fake nice guy who thinks he deserves to get laid because he's nice. It is a lazy retort, and I've always thought so. The respectful comment I had a feeling would be scrutinised but let's look at the facts. Women don't like assholes...probably, but I don't think people actually know what they mean by nice guys. I actually don't think I'm all that nice, I was actually a very nice person at one time but I am pretty bitter and resentful now. I'm definitely not as dumb and innocent as I used to be. It just seems to be I'm swerved so easily....I definitely amn't good looking btw, I think maybe I used to be but not anymore. I went on Instagram and viewed many pictures of guys I know there and looked through all their last photos, oh what a surprise, all their pictures were liked by exes and flings that I know they've had, meanwhile girls that I struck lucky with DESPISE me and don't want anything to do with me. Yikes. It makes for tough reading.

Everywhere I go, I just imagine my ****ty narrow shoulders, my squatty body and my long face and it KILLS me, lmao I walked by about 30 schoolgirls on way to dart this morning and NOT ONE damn look. Put me in a bad mood for the day. So much so I went to McDonalds and gorged on 3 milkshakes and two big mac meals because don't see the point of looking after myself. This will probably be short lived when I begin to cope again when I put up another video or pic of me in favourable lighting and get told 'GIRLS are intimidated by you probably or think you're an asshole'

Also @babyandcrumble you said you were a virgin till 21, yeah you were basically a kid, I'm a man bud. Most girls have been on the circuit many years at this stage, I'm being left behind bro. GIRLS actually VALUE sex the older they get. They will have HIGHER expectations and DEMAND you are good at it. Don't live up and it's lights out. Oh did I mention I'm not exactly killing it in the you know where department!

@withgirl, nice words, appreciate your empathy, but unfortunately I'm actually not funny. I have a goofy demeanour but not funny at all. Girls won't ever like me because I make them laugh. Thats for sure

thalia_13

5moremins wrote: »

Also I don't think I am disrespectful tonwomen, maybe I'm too respectful of anything. One time I had an 18 year old crush on me and I didn't do anything because she was just a kid(I was 26) that's not the actions of a guy who hates women

Being respectful to the women in your family and immediate friend and work group does not mean you are respectful to all women. Not trying to be hard nosed here, but from everything you are saying, something in your behaviour and demeanour is ultimately pushing women away.

December2012

You talk very negatively about yourself. You're very hard on yourself. This negativity that you have is crushing.

The way you talked about going into McDonalds and gorging. Thats veering into disorder territory.

You're talking about not getting looked at by schoolgirls? You know that school girls don't typically look at older guys right?

From what I can see, you have major hangups about yourself, and you could benefit from dealing with your mental health.

When the posters here are talking about working on yourself, I think that's what most of them mean. Did anybody give you praise growing up? Were you raised in confidence. Can you right now (to yourself) name 10 good things about you. Name 5 good things that your friends would say about you? What are your best qualities?

What are the good things in your life? Are you happy with your education, your employment prospects?

Do you have a good eye for fashion? Do you like your hair? Have you style? Honestly there are lots of things that can get on top of a person, and you sound like a very angry, very lonely, very hurt young man.

Please consider speaking with somebody about your mental health, and how you process all of these feelings.

I think that is the best make over you can give yourself.

witchgirl26

flacoandaluz wrote: »

It's very easy to clutch at straws and tow the whole typical fake nice guy who thinks he deserves to get laid because he's nice. It is a lazy retort, and I've always thought so.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. You do realise that most guys aren't being a fake nice guy. A lot of them are just being themselves and genuinely are nice guys.

And no one "deserves" to get laid.

flacoandaluz wrote: »

The respectful comment I had a feeling would be scrutinised but let's look at the facts. Women don't like assholes...probably, but I don't think people actually know what they mean by nice guys. I actually don't think I'm all that nice, I was actually a very nice person at one time but I am pretty bitter and resentful now. I'm definitely not as dumb and innocent as I used to be.

Trust me most women know what they mean by a nice guy. It's a guy who isn't completely hung up on himself; who's good to be around; isn't an ass to other people (male or female); isn't a jerk in general; has a good personality that works with your own. That's a nice guy. It's not some mythical formula.

I think you need to look at why you're bitter and resentful. If it solely comes down to your ability to attract people then that is a problem.

flacoandaluz wrote: »

It just seems to be I'm swerved so easily....I definitely amn't good looking btw, I think maybe I used to be but not anymore. I went on Instagram and viewed many pictures of guys I know there and looked through all their last photos, oh what a surprise, all their pictures were liked by exes and flings that I know they've had, meanwhile girls that I struck lucky with DESPISE me and don't want anything to do with me. Yikes. It makes for tough reading.

I've a few exes but I think I've kept in touch with maybe 2 or 3. They don't often like pictures of mine on social media or vice versa. Social media likes mean literally nothing so stop focusing on things like that.

Maybe look at why things went wrong with your exes and why you think they despise you. Was it something to do with your attitude and demeanour? Or was it a case of bad timing for both. Or is it, possibly the more realistic case, that they don't despise you but actually just don't think about you at all as you're an ex. I can honestly say that I don't think about my exes much at all!

flacoandaluz wrote: »

Everywhere I go, I just imagine my ****ty narrow shoulders, my squatty body and my long face and it KILLS me, lmao I walked by about 30 schoolgirls on way to dart this morning and NOT ONE damn look. Put me in a bad mood for the day. So much so I went to McDonalds and gorged on 3 milkshakes and two big mac meals because don't see the point of looking after myself. This will probably be short lived when I begin to cope again when I put up another video or pic of me in favourable lighting and get told 'GIRLS are intimidated by you probably or think you're an asshole'

Ok you have some serious self-esteem issues going on here. Why the hell would a group of schoolgirls look at you as if they're interested. Speaking as someone who was a schoolgirl there is no way in hell I would have bothered looking at most guys who passed me by who were older than my own siblings. If you're looking for validation of your self from strangers that is a big problem.

Honestly it really does sound like you have some issues in that regards going on and maybe you could do with some councilling in regards those. Especially if you're so affected by a group of girls not looking at you that you felt the need to gorge on food. That isn't normal behaviour or a normal reaction.

flacoandaluz wrote: »

Also @babyandcrumble you said you were a virgin till 21, yeah you were basically a kid, I'm a man bud. Most girls have been on the circuit many years at this stage, I'm being left behind bro. GIRLS actually VALUE sex the older they get. They will have HIGHER expectations and DEMAND you are good at it. Don't live up and it's lights out. Oh did I mention I'm not exactly killing it in the you know where department!

12 is not a kid. At 21 I had finished college and was in full time work while studying for a professional qualification. You're the one acting more like a kid than a man with those comments.

Girls value personality a lot more than anything to do with sex the older they get. We don't have "higher expectations" nor do we "demand you are good at it". We have expectations of someone who'll listen to our wants in regards it and to be fair - what one person likes is very different to the next so there's not really such thing as being "good" at sex.

Size isn't everything - it's about a connection between two people.

flacoandaluz wrote: »

@withgirl, nice words, appreciate your empathy, but unfortunately I'm actually not funny. I have a goofy demeanour but not funny at all. Girls won't ever like me because I make them laugh. Thats for sure

You don't know that for sure. I know a lot of girls who didn't find my OH funny but I did. His humour and mine worked well together. You don't need all girls to like it.

baby and crumble

I’m only going to reply once more and I’m out of this conversation.

Many people have given you some great advice on thread. You need to read it again, and really think about it.

You have really strange ideas about women. You got so depressed that teenaged girls didn’t fawn all
Over you that you gorged on junk food. That’s bizarre.

You are blaming everything on your lack of connection with women, but you have said really clearly a few times that after girls get to know you they don’t like you. I don’t want to be rude but maybe that’s your common denominator.

You kind of come across like a bit of an asshole. You want attention. You want it now. You want it your way. You’re blaming women for being a virgin, you’re blaming them for not fancying you, for not liking you. YOU don’t even like you, why on earth would someone else?

I really have tried to help you, but you won’t really listen. The only thing you took out of my last post was the fact I was “a kid” at 21. At 21 I’d been living independently for 3 years, was in the final year of my degree which I was putting myself through by working as a care assistant in a mental health facility. I was not a child. I was a hell of a lot more mature then than you’re being in this thread, frankly.

I hope, for your sake, you think about what people are really saying to you on this thread. Otherwise I fear you’re going to keep on becoming more bitter and twisted towards women, and yourself. I hope you find a way to love yourself, and someone else.

All the best.

Payton

OP you have some issues going on there. Because some teenager girls didnt look at you you wernt happy!!! Seriouly?? Ive been looking through this post for the last few days and you have been given excellent advice but you come back and dismiss the advice because it not what you want to hear.
Try making arrangements to talk about CBT with a counsellor because god forbide if you did meet a girl and with your state of mind your going to cause untold damage to both youself and the girl with your attitude and your wants and expectations.
Put your ego away and go back over your first post and break it down on paper point by point and what you would LIKE..not what you WANT just simplify it.

Neyite

Baby & Crumble has a very valid point and possibly the crux of your issue: if you don't like yourself all that much, you can't expect people to like you more than you.

You sound angry and lonely and frustrated. But those feelings can be as temporary as you want them to be but at the moment those could be the vibes that you give off to a potential date and what makes them swerve you. The common denominator is you. Would you be willing to ask someone in your life who can be counted on to be brutally honest what they think the issue is? Preferably a woman but a man that could be objective and observant would help too. It's an often trotted out cliche here but counselling can really help people to look at a situation in a different light, and I think you would find it helpful.

You are capable of working on changing what you don't like about yourself - it sounds like you've done some great work on your physical appearance in the gym so you are more than capable of giving your mind and your outlook the same attention.

I've dated guys that my friends didn't think were attractive. I found him attractive and that's what counted. I've dated short, tall, ugly, gorgeous men. The most conventionally gorgeous of them all actually had a really awful personality and remains to this day the worst boyfriend I've every had. Looks only get you the initial couple of dates. After that, your personality has to be the thing that keeps the person wanting to stick around.

If you are getting to the point where you are getting intimate with a woman - and you have in the past - are you being responsive to her? Checking she's liking what you are doing, checking she's into it as much as you are? Being inexperienced is not a problem, but if for example you were doing moves that would be typical of what you'd see in porn, that is often very off-putting in a new partner and actually shows inexperience rather than experience.

Potatoeman

I was in a similar situation to you in my early twenties. I had to have a long hard look at myself and work on some things. I was too eager, too skinny, didn’t stand up straight and was too serious. So I hit the gym 10-20 hours a week, bulked up and improved my posture. I learned to handle rejection and took myself less seriously. Got more qualified and improved my career as well as reading lots of different subjects. Dressed and groomed better. Also done smile therapy, smiling makes you feel better and makes you way more approachable. I shifted my goals from trying to meet girls to having fun myself first. The end result was that I drastically improved my situation. Things became far easier.

The thing is at your age it can be a hard time for guys. There are more single guys than girls because many women date older guys. Women can also hit above their weight for casual flings and hookups. This will change from your late twenties as there will be more single women than men and they will be more relationship focused. I think this is the reason women struggle to meet relationship focused guys at this age, that many guys find themselves with way more options than they had before. I’m in my mid thirties now and mostly dating women in their mid to late twenties as there is just less pressure to commit quickly.

My advice is to sit down and have a hard look at yourself and see what you can improve. Turn this bad experience into something positive.