UCD to re-designate more than 170 toilets as gender neutral (Mod warning in op)

Billy86

professore wrote: »

Let them choose. I don't see the problem.

That's a fair solution as well, though I'm not sure it would be seen that way by people in those toilets at the time - esp. for a pre-op male-to-female transgender person.

I would be interested to see how this can/could have been sold differently though by something as small as relabeling them 'toilets' rather than 'male/female' OR 'all genders/unisex/gender free/etc'.

freshpopcorn

professore wrote: »

Why not? And even if that's true, which I find impossible to believe, how do they have the right to a separate one? Lots of stuff makes me uncomfortable but I have to put up with it. I have to sit for ages in rush hour traffic, should I get my own private road?

I honestly don't know because it's not really my thing.

professore

Billy86 wrote: »

That's a fair solution as well, though I'm not sure it would be seen that way by people in those toilets at the time - esp. for a pre-op male-to-female transgender person

I think if they are worried about stuff like this then their issue is something other than being trans. Discrimination I can understand - but demands to relabel everything and actual separate bathrooms? What happens if I as a cis male use one of these bathrooms? Will I be publicly shamed?

Do we need separate ones for M2F and F2M? Ones for asexuals and furries? Whee does it end?

professore

Billy86 wrote: »

That's a fair solution as well, though I'm not sure it would be seen that way by people in those toilets at the time - esp. for a pre-op male-to-female transgender person.

I would be interested to see how this can/could have been sold differently though by something as small as relabeling them 'toilets' rather than 'male/female' OR 'all genders/unisex/gender free/etc'.

The thing is there are male and female bathrooms for good anatomical and efficiency reasons, on the male side and probably because women like a female only space for gossip and applying makeup. Women have female only gyms FFS!

If women could pee standing up I see no reason on the male side for gendered bathrooms. The average man doesn't care. We already have shredded incredibly handsome and stylish gay guys in our bathrooms to make us feel insecure do you think a few trans women are going to make any difference to us?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

professore wrote: »

Let them choose. I don't see the problem.

The problem apparently is that you get screamed at if you go into one and beaten up if you go into the other (and this does not qualify as freedom of choice, btw).

professore

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem apparently is that you get screamed at if you go into one and beaten up if you go into the other (and this does not qualify as freedom of choice, btw).

Beaten up? Never seen that happen. Maybe in secondary school but that could happen to a straight guy too. In university? In 2018?? Really?


Don't know about screamed at - maybe that's a thing.

They could go to their biological gender bathroom before they transition if they are that concerned for their safety. Or the disabled toilet. And surely if they are in danger of being beaten up it could happen anywhere?

professore

Is a possible explanation that women don't want male to female trans people in their toilets and therefore want to push them into their own toilets? And trying to pretend it's some sort of good they are doing? That actually makes sense.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

professore wrote: »

Beaten up? Never seen that happen. Maybe in secondary school but that could happen to a straight guy too. In university? In 2018?? Really?


Don't know about screamed at - maybe that's a thing.

They could go to their biological gender bathroom before they transition if they are that concerned for their safety. Or the disabled toilet. And surely if they are in danger of being beaten up it could happen anywhere?

I'm just answering your question, don't shoot the messenger!

That said, just because you've never seen it happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Given some of the attitudes I've seen expressed here, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

Greysquirel09

Billy86 wrote: »

That's a fair solution as well, though I'm not sure it would be seen that way by people in those toilets at the time - esp. for a pre-op male-to-female transgender person.

I would be interested to see how this can/could have been sold differently though by something as small as relabeling them 'toilets' rather than 'male/female' OR 'all genders/unisex/gender free/etc'.

I made the same point previously... "TOILETS" and be done with it. It's virtue signalling. I feel for older people if this is rolled out everywhere. 70-80 year old woman going into a bathroom with men. Must be uneasy for them.

freshpopcorn

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

I made the same point previously... "TOILETS" and be done with it. It's virtue signalling. I feel for older people if this is rolled out everywhere. 70-80 year old woman going into a bathroom with men. Must be uneasy for them.

This was discussed with Maura and Dathi during the week and Maura even said it would make her feel uncomfortable and she isn't an old lady.

professore

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm just answering your question, don't shoot the messenger!

That said, just because you've never seen it happen, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Given some of the attitudes I've seen expressed here, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just offering my opinion. I know that just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. However several months ago it was front page news when some mentally disturbed individual sprayed a nazi symbol on the George - if trans people were being attacked in toilets don't you think the media would have a field day?

professore

freshpopcorn wrote: »

This was discussed with Maura and Dathi during the week and Maura even said it would make her feel uncomfortable and she isn't an old lady.

The biggest losers here are going to be women. Most men really don't care who goes in their toilets.

WinnyThePoo

professore wrote: »

The biggest losers here are going to be women. Most men really don't care who goes in their toilets.

Can you expand on this. How do woman lose here?

robyntmorton

*sticks head above parapet, waits for the shot*

I'm trans*. All my documentation says I'm female. I use the female toilets, female changing rooms, and nobody bats an eyelid. I go in, do what I have to do, and I leave again. Simple as, though I may have an easier time, as I look like I belong there. That's fine for me, as I am comfortable enough and confident enough in myself to just get on with it. Others though may not look like they fit in as well, or may feel nervous that they look out of place, and it is not pleasant. So, what do they do? Do they go into the toilets or changing rooms of the wrong (to them) gender, where they may be subjected to ridicule (or worse), do they just not go out in public and lead their lives for fear that they may have to use a public toilet, or do they use a disabled/unisex/gender neutral, single room toilet?

Now, I don't go to UCD, or know how exactly they are implementing this, and yes, the whole thing of proudly publicly stating that these facilities are "gender neutral" can seem a bit over the top, but really, once it is all in place and goes quiet afterwards, people will not really care, and they will just be toilets for all people who for whatever reason would be more comfortable using a single toilet.

freshpopcorn

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Can you expand on this. How do woman lose here?

The women I've spoken to about this or heard them speaking dislike this because they could end up in a toilet and be out numbered by a lot of men. It's not that they fear them but they'd just be more comfortable in a toilet with women.

Dravokivich

professore wrote: »

Are there any actual trans people on this thread? I would like to hear what they think.

There's one where I work who made a point about being able to use the Male's toilets. Weren't agressive about it at all. Just wanted to be confident about being able to use it without confrontation coming their way. None of us have been too bothered by it to be honest. But maybe that's just guys in general.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The women I've spoken to about this or heard them speaking dislike this because they could end up in a toilet and be out numbered by a lot of men. It's not that they fear them but they'd just be more comfortable in a toilet with women.

Doesn't make a whole load of sense, considering women tend to go to the women's bathroom in pairs. Surely there's something to be concerned with there no?

WinnyThePoo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The women I've spoken to about this or heard them speaking dislike this because they could end up in a toilet and be out numbered by a lot of men. It's not that they fear them but they'd just be more comfortable in a toilet with women.

These bathrooms are singles. No issue.

professore

robyntmorton wrote: »

*sticks head above parapet, waits for the shot*

I'm trans*. All my documentation says I'm female. I use the female toilets, female changing rooms, and nobody bats an eyelid. I go in, do what I have to do, and I leave again. Simple as, though I may have an easier time, as I look like I belong there. That's fine for me, as I am comfortable enough and confident enough in myself to just get on with it. Others though may not look like they fit in as well, or may feel nervous that they look out of place, and it is not pleasant. So, what do they do? Do they go into the toilets or changing rooms of the wrong (to them) gender, where they may be subjected to ridicule (or worse), do they just not go out in public and lead their lives for fear that they may have to use a public toilet, or do they use a disabled/unisex/gender neutral, single room toilet?

Now, I don't go to UCD, or know how exactly they are implementing this, and yes, the whole thing of proudly publicly stating that these facilities are "gender neutral" can seem a bit over the top, but really, once it is all in place and goes quiet afterwards, people will not really care, and they will just be toilets for all people who for whatever reason would be more comfortable using a single toilet.

Not going to shoot you

Thanks for the response.

Thing is, if you are going to be ridiculed, it isn't any more or less likely to happen in a toilet? If anything in a men's it's less likely I would say - most men just want to get in and get out. The ladies is a mystery to me.

By that logic you should also have separate classrooms, canteens etc. And the cost financially is very high to install hundreds of new bathrooms.

I really don't care about you being trans, if you are a decent sort you would be my friend as much as a cis person would be.

Annasopra

professore wrote: »

I think if they are worried about stuff like this then their issue is something other than being trans. Discrimination I can understand - but demands to relabel everything and actual separate bathrooms? What happens if I as a cis male use one of these bathrooms? Will I be publicly shamed?

Do we need separate ones for M2F and F2M? Ones for asexuals and furries? Whee does it end?

This is silly nonsense. The toilets in UCD are open to all.

professore

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

These bathrooms are singles. No issue.

So they are like a disabled toilet? No communal area to wash hands, put on makeup etc? Why not use the disabled toilet then?

professore

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Probably not. If I was trans I wouldnt come near this thread at all given the amount of ignorance and transphobia littered throughout it.

Maybe you know trans people personally but I don't - hence the question. I'm ignorant of the habits of aboriginal Bush people too for the same reason. If they put 200 spear holders in UCD for said Bush people does it make me ignorant to ask why they are needed and for feedback from someone directly affected rather than some well meaning social justice warriors?

professore

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This is silly nonsense. The toilets in UCD are open to all.

Can I as a middle aged cis male go into the ladies toilets wearing Speedos without fear of repercussions?

freshpopcorn

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

These bathrooms are singles. No issue.

I think peoples issues is with having to shared sinks etc.

WinnyThePoo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think peoples issues is with having to shared sinks etc.

Yep. I know. Just like when I have to use the toilet in the local library. A toilet used by woman, men and children. Disgusting.

Anyway I haven't read anything about communal sinks.

Annasopra

professore wrote: »

Can I as a middle aged cis male go into the ladies toilets wearing Speedos without fear of repercussions?

Did you actually have a genuine point in that question?

Annasopra

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think peoples issues is with having to shared sinks etc.

What about sinks?

freshpopcorn

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Yep. I know. Just like when I have to use the toilet in the local library. A toilet used by woman, men and children. Disgusting.

Anyway I haven't read anything about communal sinks.

There's a toilet in my local Tesco. It's a stand alone toilet. You go in lock the door and do you business. It's private nobody has an issue with this.
People have issues with going into a block of toilets and having both genders using area where the sinks and mirrors are for example. Just in my experience.

WinnyThePoo

freshpopcorn wrote: »

There's a toilet in my local Tesco. It's a stand alone toilet. You go in lock the door and do you business. It's private nobody has an issue with this.
People have issues with going into a block of toilets and having both genders using area where the sinks and mirrors are for example. Just in my experience.

What experience. Have you been in a unisex toilet before?

freshpopcorn

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

What experience. Have you been in a unisex toilet before?

I've being told by womsn they don't like it. I have being on them in the past I'd also prefer single sex toilets.

Bob24

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have being on them in the past I'd also prefer single sex toilets.

I’d say most people do.

Firstly unisex toilets make urinals a no go as a majority of men and women alike obviously wouldn’t want urinal used in a unisex area.

Secondly because besides urinals there are a few other things which are different in men and women toilets (do most men want to bin full of tampons next to them while they do their thing in a cubicle ... I think not, so this is out as well, and I am sure there are other things).

Thirdly it is just a human thing. If a vast majority of cultures and societies on this planet all came up with a concept of separate male/female public toilets there must be a reason. Most human beings just like it better that way.

Now of course this is a bit different for small individual toilets whereby the acceptance for unisex toilets will be higher as not all my previous points apply. But I very much doubt unisex cubicles in large toilets could become a norm as there are just too many reasons people would feel uncomfortable about them.