School Shooting in Parkland, Florida

muppetshow1451

Chrongen wrote: »

Missed it completely, didn't you.

You missed the jab or got knocked out?

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

You realise in your first question that you are dumping absolutely every single form of mental health issue together? You are equating someone with dyslexia or agoraphobia with someone who is a raving psychotic. You can have a mental impairment which Social Security may feel will affect your ability to control your finances, and not be in any way a threat to public safety, which is precisely why the various disability advocacy and civil rights groups opposed the implementation of the rule and supported the repeal.

That is a separate question to the third. I, too, would be curious to see what proposal Trump or the Republicans come up with to address the issue of mental health in general, and firearms safety with mental health specifically.

I did not equate every single form of mental health issue together. Trump did in his response which was my point. You want to argue that Obama's legislation had issues then that is fair enough but don't give me any bull**** that Trump reversed it because it was too broad brush. Trump replaced it with nothing. Trump did not differentiate when he put all the blame for this incident on mental health issues. That is my point. That the reasons you gave for Trump reversing Obama's policies are inconsistent with Trump's own statements.

If Trump had replaced it with a more appropriate piece of legislation he would not he getting this flak. If Trump believed those reasons for getting rid of Obama's rules why did he not replace it with something more appropriate and why did he use such a wide brush when putting the blame on mental health issues?

(Answer: gun lobby wanted it gone so he did it and it reversed a piece of Obama legislation. The pinning all blame on mental health issues was to put the blame somewhere that was not guns)

I agree that not all mental health issues are the same. Off hand I can't think of any I would trust with a gun but not their own finances but I am open to the legislation being too broad as I do not know enough about the full spectrum of mental health issues.

I would not hold my breath on the Republicans piece of legislation. I expect nothing but thoughts and prayers from them.

BattleCorp

Obama wanted tighter gun control. Under Obama gun sales went through the roof.

Trump wants looser gun control. Under Trump gun sales have dropped.

Vote gun supporter Trump if you want less guns.

Strange but true.

El_Duderino 09

Manic Moran wrote: »

However, they are not in the US, they don't have the US's societal problems leading to our own levels of criminal behaviour, and they don't already have some 300mil firearms in circulation which cannot be simply legislated into non-existence.

Solving the societal problems would be incredibly unpopular. Assuming crime results from lack of education, poverty and lack of prospects, lack of safe places for young people to burn off steam (sports clubs, parks etc.) and culture if violence and crime.

Solving the first few issues of education and social mobility would be expensive and would only work over the medium term. Safe places for young people to urn off steam could be achieved more quickly and at lower cost. But the culture of gangs and violence would take generations to tackle.

Given the neo-liberal attitude in the US I can’t see them standing for spending large amounts of tax dollars on poor schools with expected results in the Medium term future.

Social mobility is at an all time low in the US so I don’t think wealthy people would be happy with encouraging greater social mobility. After all social means clever, hard working poor people will tend to be one richer, but stupid, lazy rich people would become poorer.

I don’t see the US being capable of tackling either guns or the reasons for shootings. So Imagine what will happen is exactly what has happened up to now: one side calls for thoughts and prayers, the other side calls for gun control and nothing changes.

pitifulgod

BattleCorp wrote: »

Obama wanted tighter gun control. Under Obama gun sales went through the roof.

Trump wants looser gun control. Under Trump gun sales have dropped.

Vote gun supporter Trump if you want less guns.

Strange but true.

That's because the nra and individuals like Alex Jones ran scare mongering campaigns against gun control whenever action was attempted...

Herb Powell

The response to this seems to be different than usual.

I'm happy to see lots of people, especially young people, starting to say enough is enough and calling out the NRA bull****. There's a nationwide school walkout being organised.

Fair play, and hopefully they continue to push for change.

Akrasia

BattleCorp wrote: »

Obama wanted tighter gun control. Under Obama gun sales went through the roof.

Trump wants looser gun control. Under Trump gun sales have dropped.

Vote gun supporter Trump if you want less guns.

Strange but true.

Yeah, all these 'law abiding citizens' who rush out to buy guns in case they will be made illegal later on.
The kind of people who rush out to buy an AR15 the day after a school shooting are exactly the type of people who shouldn't be allowed within a country mile of a firearm.
America where you have a 'right' to own a gun, but not a right to healthcare

Where you can be shot in a public school and then your family gets bankrupted by the medical bills as you try to piece your body and life back together

Every single gun in america should have to be legally registered, legally tracked and anyone caught in posession of an unregistered or falsely registered firearm should have the gun confiscated and destroyed, and they should get a hefty fine and prison for multiple repeat offenses.

Nobody should have to endure 'open carry' culture where you can't walk down your own public street without being intimidated by arseholes parading their military grade weapons to compensate for their tiny penis and smaller brain.

El_Duderino 09

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

He looks Spanish - Eastern European to me.

He was adopted. Cruz is his adopted name.

Billy86

Herb Powell wrote: »

The response to this seems to be different than usual.

I'm happy to see lots of people, especially young people, starting to say enough is enough and calling out the NRA bull****. There's a nationwide school walkout being organised.

Fair play, and hopefully they continue to push for change.

They won't. This is exactly what we can expect pretty much all 'round. It's a complete copy-and-paste response from them at this point.

No quote from Sandy Hook in that clip, which he accused Obama of trying to use as a 'distraction'.

Bottom line: they really, genuinely, do not seem like they could care any less.

Billy86

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He was adopted. Cruz is his adopted name.

Complete guess since it's hard to tell, but I'd reckon he may be partly Hispanic - I think someone mentioned the boxer Canelo Alvarez earlier who is Mexican:

BattleCorp

Akrasia wrote: »

Yeah, all these 'law abiding citizens' who rush out to buy guns in case they will be made illegal later on.
The kind of people who rush out to buy an AR15 the day after a school shooting are exactly the type of people who shouldn't be allowed within a country mile of a firearm.
America where you have a 'right' to own a gun, but not a right to healthcare

How do you know that someone who buys an AR15 the day after a school shooting is the type of person who shouldn't be allowed within a country mile of a firearm? What evidence are you basing that on?

I've 7 firearms, all licenced, all used for totally legal purposes (target shooting), and if I thought a certain type of gun I was thinking of getting was going to be banned, then I'd go out and get one before the ban. That doesn't make me a school shooter or a nut job or someone who shouldn't be allowed near firearms.

Americans should have a right to healthcare but that's absolutely nothing to do with the right to own a gun.

YFlyer

Billy86 wrote: »

Complete guess since it's hard to tell, but I'd reckon he may be partly Hispanic - I think someone mentioned the boxer Canelo Alvarez earlier who is Mexican:

That was me. He learnt alot from Mayweather fight. If that is relevant?

Akrasia

BattleCorp wrote: »

How do you know that someone who buys an AR15 the day after a school shooting is the type of person who shouldn't be allowed within a country mile of a firearm? What evidence are you basing that on?

I've 7 firearms, all licenced, all used for totally legal purposes (target shooting), and if I thought a certain type of gun I was thinking of getting was going to be banned, then I'd go out and get one before the ban. That doesn't make me a school shooter or a nut job or someone who shouldn't be allowed near firearms.

Americans should have a right to healthcare but that's absolutely nothing to do with the right to own a gun.

Would you hand back those guns after they are no longer legal?

BattleCorp

Akrasia wrote: »

Would you hand back those guns after they are no longer legal?

They don't make them illegal. They stop issuing new licences. It's called grandfathering. They did it here in Ireland with centrefire pistols in 2009. If you already had one, you could keep it but no new licences were given out.

Here in Ireland, yes I would give them back if they were made illegal. I would also expect compensation from the Government for the loss of my sporting equipment.

But we aren't talking about Ireland. There is no right to any kind of firearm here. If I was in America I probably wouldn't give up my firearms because I'd be giving up my right to have them.

suicide_circus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiK-D9beD8Q

Akrasia

BattleCorp wrote: »

They don't make them illegal. They stop issuing new licences. It's called grandfathering. They did it here in Ireland with centrefire pistols in 2009. If you already had one, you could keep it but no new licences were given out.

Here in Ireland, yes I would give them back if they were made illegal. I would also expect compensation from the Government for the loss of my sporting equipment.

But we aren't talking about Ireland. There is no right to any kind of firearm here. If I was in America I probably wouldn't give up my firearms because I'd be giving up my right to have them.

That's one way of doing it, another way is a ban and compulsory buyback. Grandfathering wont work when there ate already massive stockpiles of these weapons floating around

If you would refuse to give up illegal firearms you can hardly call yourself law abiding then

BattleCorp

Akrasia wrote: »

That's one way of doing it, another way is a ban and compulsory buyback. Grandfathering wont work when there ate already massive stockpiles of these weapons floating around

If you would refuse to give up illegal firearms you can hardly call yourself law abiding then

A buyback wouldn't work for the same reason that grandfathering won't work. + 300,000,000 firearms already in circulation and the Government haven't a clue who has most of them.

We have rights here in Ireland. I'd say most Irish people would be up in arms (no pun intended) if any of them were taken away. I know I don't want any of my Constitutional rights taken away. Most Americans wouldn't be in favour of giving up any of their rights either. The right to own a gun is one of those rights that they don't want to give up.

And as the law stands, that's their right.

degsie

Funny to think that irish people are critical of american gun use when this very state was born out of violence.

pitifulgod

degsie wrote: »

Funny to think that irish people are critical of american gun use when this very state was born out of violence.

It wasn't born out of teenagers going on spree killings... So it's a pretty poor contrast.

wakka12

degsie wrote: »

Funny to think that irish people are critical of american gun use when this very state was born out of violence.

and this is relevant how
Most of us on here didn't take part in the rebellion I don't think

Christy42

BattleCorp wrote: »

A buyback wouldn't work for the same reason that grandfathering won't work. + 300,000,000 firearms already in circulation and the Government haven't a clue who has most of them.

We have rights here in Ireland. I'd say most Irish people would be up in arms (no pun intended) if any of them were taken away. I know I don't want any of my Constitutional rights taken away. Most Americans wouldn't be in favour of giving up any of their rights either. The right to own a gun is one of those rights that they don't want to give up.

And as the law stands, that's their right.

Even if tightening restrictions on guns would lead to less kids getting shot? Rights are added and removed, it happens. The important thing is to remember why people have those rights and if they are important or harmful to society.

The right to bear arms is a bit of an odd one that no longer makes sense as written. I hear plenty about the people needing to protect themselves from a tyrannical government but an ar15 is insufficient. The military have the CIA, they have far superior training, they have big items like tanks/apache helicopters which are out of reach of a common militia (ridiculous to think they exist in a first world country but anyway).

namloc1980

degsie wrote: »

Funny to think that irish people are critical of american gun use when this very state was born out of violence.

What a bizarre attempt at an analogy.

Akrasia

BattleCorp wrote: »

A buyback wouldn't work for the same reason that grandfathering won't work. + 300,000,000 firearms already in circulation and the Government haven't a clue who has most of them.

We have rights here in Ireland. I'd say most Irish people would be up in arms (no pun intended) if any of them were taken away. I know I don't want any of my Constitutional rights taken away. Most Americans wouldn't be in favour of giving up any of their rights either. The right to own a gun is one of those rights that they don't want to give up.

And as the law stands, that's their right.

Dozens of innocent children slaughtered every year. A ban on military grade weapons and a register of all firearms would be a very reasonable facilitation to allow sports shooting and personal protection while reducing the risk of lone nutters with high capacity weapons of war

BattleCorp

Akrasia wrote: »

Dozens of innocent children slaughtered every year. A ban on military grade weapons and a register of all firearms would be a very reasonable facilitation to allow sports shooting and personal protection while reducing the risk of lone nutters with high capacity weapons of war

An AR15 isn't a military grade firearm. It really isn't.

I've no problem with guns being registered and I've no problems with background checks either. But I'm not in America nor am I an American.

If Americans are allowed guns to protect themselves against a tyrannical government, then it makes sense that the government shouldn't know where the guns are. I don't agree with that but some people do.

Richard Hillman

BattleCorp wrote: »

A buyback wouldn't work for the same reason that grandfathering won't work. + 300,000,000 firearms already in circulation and the Government haven't a clue who has most of them.

We have rights here in Ireland. I'd say most Irish people would be up in arms (no pun intended) if any of them were taken away. I know I don't want any of my Constitutional rights taken away. Most Americans wouldn't be in favour of giving up any of their rights either. The right to own a gun is one of those rights that they don't want to give up.

And as the law stands, that's their right.

The Mexican cartels would be very very happy pandas if they stopped issuing licenses. All that wonga slipping over the border for something the sniffer dogs can't get a whift of.

Akrasia

BattleCorp wrote: »

An AR15 isn't a military grade firearm. It really isn't.

I've no problem with guns being registered and I've no problems with background checks either. But I'm not in America nor am I an American.

If Americans are allowed guns to protect themselves against a tyrannical government, then it makes sense that the government shouldn't know where the guns are. I don't agree with that but some people do.

But you are prepared to pander to a small number of extremists half of whom think the Holocaust never happened or that it did happen but was a good idea

Chrongen

3 mass shootings in the US since Wednesday.

One on Oklahoma, one in Kansas and one in Tennesee.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

Manic Moran

Chrongen wrote: »

3 mass shootings in the US since Wednesday.

One on Oklahoma, one in Kansas and one in Tennesee.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

According to the mass shooting tracker. (Unsurprisingly, there is one)

Oklahoma, 1 Killed, three injured. Known gang member conducted a home invasion, shot four in the house. Killed the 66-year old.

Tennessee . Five injured. Incident outside of nightclub, no further info.

Kansas. One dead, seven injured. Two gangs had a disagreement.

Can’t argue the nightclub thing, but the other two were very blatantly criminal actions, not spree shootings.

BattleCorp

Akrasia wrote: »

But you are prepared to pander to a small number of extremists half of whom think the Holocaust never happened or that it did happen but was a good idea

Where are you getting that idea from? I'm not pandering to anyone, much less a bunch of loons. I certainly didn't say that in my post as I said I am in favour of background checks etc.

By the way, background checks don't always work as many shooters acquire their firearms illegally. Adam Lanza stole his mother's gun I believe.

smurgen

Manic Moran wrote: »

Chrongen wrote: »

3 mass shootings in the US since Wednesday.

One on Oklahoma, one in Kansas and one in Tennesee.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.

According to the mass shooting tracker. (Unsurprisingly, there is one)

Oklahoma, 1 Killed, three injured. Known gang member conducted a home invasion, shot four in the house. Killed the 66-year old.

Tennessee . Five injured. Incident outside of nightclub, no further info.

Kansas. One dead, seven injured. Two gangs had a disagreement.

Can’t argue the nightclub thing, but the other two were very blatantly criminal actions, not spree shootings.

That's grand.sure gangs are known for using softer,non life threatening bullets and only shooting other gang members.no threat to normal citizens.