Spread Urea or Not

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

So it's okay for slurry but not urea?
They are both the same forms of N

Yes and I’ve a question for u is it ok to leave slurry up through slats ???,slurry is more about p and k for me than n at this time of year .farmers seem to be loosing common sense when it comes to doing certain tasks and just follow the speil thrown out by certain journos .grass won’t grow when ground temps are under 6 and when ground is borderline too wet why go out and compact it .ive seen no data yet nor can I see with current weather how soil temps could be any higher .nothing only reckless spreading it ,ei

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes and I’ve a question for u is it ok to leave slurry up through slats ???,slurry is more about p and k for me than n at this time of year .farmers seem to be loosing common sense when it comes to doing certain tasks and just follow the speil thrown out by certain journos .grass won’t grow when ground temps are under 6 and when ground is borderline too wet why go out and compact it .ive seen no data yet nor can I see with current weather how soil temps could be any higher .nothing only reckless spreading it ,ei

Fair enough. I'm following research and I trust it more than someone who hasn't done the research. I'm also doing what has worked here for the last number of years since I started spreading early urea. It might not be working today but the days the soil temps are up my grass will be growing while yours is still in the bag.

I've a south facing farm and get good winter growth and got decent winter growth compared to most this year, grass has nothing left in it come this time of the year to keep going.

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm following research and I trust it more than someone who hasn't done the research. I'm also doing what has worked here for the last number of years since I started spreading early urea. It might not be working today but the days the soil temps are up my grass will be growing while yours is still in the bag.

I've a south facing farm and get good winter growth and got decent winter growth compared to most this year, grass has nothing left in it come this time of the year to keep going.

It's all farm specific, have 60 acres here that I haven't been able to get out on since the middle of September and will be lucky to get out on in march, 75% of ground farmed at the minute isn't travelable with a tractor, and I live at the foot of a mountain with temperatures below freezing the past 3 weeks at night, would the ole urea work for us in your expert opinion

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm following research and I trust it more than someone who hasn't done the research. I'm also doing what has worked here for the last number of years since I started spreading early urea. It might not be working today but the days the soil temps are up my grass will be growing while yours is still in the bag.

I've a south facing farm and get good winter growth and got decent winter growth compared to most this year, grass has nothing left in it come this time of the year to keep going.

I follow research but I also farm with a bit of common sense and respect for tbf environment and also my pocket ..I went with a bag of urea last janurary cause conditions and weather were favourable ,there anything but atm so I’m using common sense .did I read somewhere else a few weeks back u were dissapointed with winter growth ????,

charolais0153

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes and I’ve a question for u is it ok to leave slurry up through slats ???,slurry is more about p and k for me than n at this time of year .farmers seem to be loosing common sense when it comes to doing certain tasks and just follow the speil thrown out by certain journos .grass won’t grow when ground temps are under 6 and when ground is borderline too wet why go out and compact it .ive seen no data yet nor can I see with current weather how soil temps could be any higher .nothing only reckless spreading it ,ei

There is also an argument that you should have more slurry storage so that you dont have to pollute the environment

mahoney_j

charolais0153 wrote: »

There is also an argument that you should have more slurry storage so that you dont have to pollute the environment

Fully nitrate complient here as regards slurry storage

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

I follow research but I also farm with a bit of common sense and respect for tbf environment and also my pocket ..I went with a bag of urea last janurary cause conditions and weather were favourable ,there anything but atm so I’m using common sense .did I read somewhere else a few weeks back u were dissapointed with winter growth ????,

You did and my farm cover has increased an awful lot since then thankfully. A mixture of underestimating what was there at the time and January growth

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's all farm specific, have 60 acres here that I haven't been able to get out on since the middle of September and will be lucky to get out on in march, 75% of ground farmed at the minute isn't travelable with a tractor, and I live at the foot of a mountain with temperatures below freezing the past 3 weeks at night, would the ole urea work for us in your expert opinion

No I wouldn't be spreading in your scenario. I've 16% of the farm not spread here because it's too wet but every other acre got urea

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You did and my farm cover has increased an awful lot since then thankfully. A mixture of underestimating what was there at the time and January growth

Gr can’t of been much more than 3/5 per day since Jan 1 regardless of urea spread

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Gr can’t of been much more than 3/5 per day since Jan 1 regardless of urea spread

I underestimated my previous farm cover also

whelan2

Its only the thirteenth of February. Cant even walk the farm here never mind spread anything. Every farm is different. Som lads like to willy wave that they have cows out and stuff spread, let them work away. 8tonne of fertilizer sitting in my shed here since last September. It wont be going anywhere for a while. We all deal with the conditions we are dealt with. If the weather is still the same in a months time. Then I'll worry

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fully nitrate complient here as regards slurry storage

Only if you're spreading in perfect conditions

Keepgrowing

I'll be spreading early next week by the looks of the forecast. Ground conditions are good but I won't spread till soil temps are steady at 6 for a few days and rising.

Spread it, don't spread it who gives a shyte but accusing people of will waving for having cows out or using a thread to have a go at a journalist makes this place less pleasant.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I'll be spreading early next week by the looks of the forecast. Ground conditions are good but I won't spread till soil temps are steady at 6 for a few days and rising.

Spread it, don't spread it who gives a shyte but accusing people of will waving for having cows out or using a thread to have a go at a journalist makes this place less pleasant.

Said journo well able to handle himself dosnt like his methods questioned .nothing personal from me but I’ve a right to ask a question same as he has right to print an article .disregarded another leading dairy advisor with different views a while back not right either

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

Said journo well able to handle himself dosnt like his methods questioned .nothing personal from me but I’ve a right to ask a question same as he has right to print an article .disregarded another leading dairy advisor with different views a while back not right either

That other "consultant", failed farmer was peddling AI straws not too long ago. A lot of crap out of him too.

Say my name

A few pictures of what's happening on farm.

Picture 1 three quarters of a bag urea and diluted seawater.
Picture 2 across the wire half bag urea and 2ton dolerite per acre and not much or zero growth.

It's a crap old sod that's bad for spring growth. It will be reseeded this year.
But you can see the difference.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

That other "consultant", failed farmer was peddling AI straws not too long ago. A lot of crap out of him too.

We all spout crap from time to time ,in fairness to mr vb his views on spreading urea in current conditions make scientific sense whereas the opposite view is just spread which makes no scientific sense failed farmer bit harsh he has rebounded and reinvented himself ,had him here didn’t buy into all his ideas but def did on some and liked an alternative thought provoking view

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

We all spout crap from time to time ,in fairness to mr vb his views on spreading urea in current conditions make scientific sense whereas the opposite view is just spread which makes no scientific sense failed farmer bit harsh he has rebounded and reinvented himself ,had him here didn’t buy into all his ideas but def did on some and liked an alternative thought provoking view

I like reading his stuff but failed farmer is accurate. I'm always suspicious of consultants who haven't done it or can't do it.

Fully agree re Urea ATM

Say my name

A few more..

First pic a field across the ditch from previous post. In the foreground is the first paddock grazed this year with clear regrowth and the background cows in today's paddock.
The paddock in the foreground got dung in October. Closed up in start of November. Got 2t dolerite and diluted seawater and half bag urea at opening date.
The paddock where cows are grazing got all the above except the ds. The cows don't seem as happy on that paddock.
2nd pic same field across the laneway.
Got no dung but got dolerite and diluted seawater and urea and clear regrowth today.

Field reseeded 7 years ago.

Say my name

A few more...

Field closed off at end of Oct.
Got dung and dolerite and half bag urea at opening date.
Second pic across the ditch.
Closed a week later and got nothing. No growth.

Say my name

Same as above. Same field but different pictures and should have been included in the above post.

Conclusion I'm coming to urea works well with a bacteria/microbe source. Without it it's crap.
Also more attention should be paid to Electrical conductivity in the soil. We know electrical conductivity goes up and down with temperatures. But maybe instead of looking at temperature we should be looking at the baseline cut off point of electrical conductivity influencing growth. We can't influence the temperature but we can influence the electrical conductivity. And especially in a cold spring it's all the more pertinent.

Just a few thoughts!

einn32

charolais0153 wrote: »

There is also an argument that you should have more slurry storage so that you dont have to pollute the environment

You would want a tank the size of Europe this Spring to comply with the ban and then accommodate the weather.

Gawddawggonnit

.https://www.farmersjournal.ie/how-sustainable-are-irish-dairy-farms-343282


How much is accurate?

einn32

einn32 wrote: »

You would want a tank the size of Europe this Spring to comply with the ban and then accommodate the weather.

Actually I'm sure there is a joke in there somewhere

cute geoge

Wtf is dolerite(lime?}bacteria/microbe source(dung?)/electrical conductivity and this sea water ,how far away is this collected and then doluted with water??? I am lost completely .By the way what ever you are doing it seems to be working but what about the cost of the now invisible urea spread as well as cost of haulage of sea water and whatever else you have being up to

Timmaay

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

.https://www.farmersjournal.ie/how-sustainable-are-irish-dairy-farms-343282


How much is accurate?

Copy and paste the text someone please.

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

.https://www.farmersjournal.ie/how-sustainable-are-irish-dairy-farms-343282


How much is accurate?

P use is efficient because lots of people don't spread it.
Would love to see where they're getting nitrogen use efficiency of over 30% from. It doesn't stack up. Low 20's would be much more realistic.
Irish milk has the lowest carbon footprint in Europe because a lower % of our emissions are considered due to grassland soil carbon loss being ignored.

yosemitesam1

James Humphreys of Teagasc, Moorepark looks at how fertilisers can be used more efficiently on Irish farms.

Across the EU, and in most countries worldwide, the trend is towards indoor systems of dairy production, whereas there is a growing societal pressure, particularly in the EU, to reverse this.

There is a lot of evidence to show that cows prefer to be outside on pasture. Research shows that cows are less stressed and more comfortable when they are at pasture because they are freer from competition and bullying and likely to spend longer lying down when outside.

The sustainable image of Irish dairy products is underpinned at farm level by grazing cows in a clean environment.

Nutrient use efficiency

Pasture-based production on permanent grassland is a key contributor to the generally low nutrient contamination of Irish rivers and lakes.

Nevertheless, P use in particular can have a negative impact on water quality and efficient use of P is important because of diminishing global reserves and increasing cost.

High reliance on grazed grass and a low proportion of concentrate in the diet of dairy cows in Ireland is a key contributor to Irish dairy farms having the highest P use efficiency in the world, which is in sharp contrast to the situation in most other EU countries and even Northern Ireland, where concentrate inputs are higher.

There have been substantial improvements in slurry storage and slurry and dirty water management on Irish farms over the past decade.

Paradoxically, soil deficiencies of lime, P and potassium (K) have been identified as a key area for improvement because of their impact on grass growth and the economic performance of farms.

Nitrate losses to water tend to be low under permanent grassland particularly on the heavier textured soils and high rainfall conditions that predominate in Ireland.

Nevertheless, there is no room for complacency because the continuation of the nitrates derogation is conditional on improving water quality. Furthermore, nitrogen (N) fertilizer use on Irish dairy farms is higher than most other EU countries including the Netherlands, where there is greater reliance on maize.

This is a matter for concern because not only can fertilizer N impact on water quality it also contributes to greenhouse gas and ammonia emissions.

Nitrogen use efficiency of Irish dairy farms is typically <30%. Nitrogen use efficiency can be improved on farms by good N management practices such as responsible application of slurry, dirty water and fertilizer N in terms of rates and dates of application, applying slurry using trailing shoe, white clover and new fertilizer N formulations such as NBPT-protected urea.

It is clear that there remains a large potential for improvement in N use efficiency through better management practices and newly emerging technologies.

Carbon footprint of Irish dairy

It is well known that Irish milk has one of the lowest carbon footprints in the world and certainly one of the lowest in the EU.

It offers a unique selling proposition in that a food manufacturer aiming to lower the carbon footprint of its product is likely to favour Irish raw material over that produced on Dutch, French or German farms (particularly when the Irish product is also cost competitive) because over 70% of the carbon footprint of many dairy products is generated within the farm gate.

It can also be argued that – from a global perspective – it is better to produce milk on Irish farms rather than in counties with higher emission dairy systems.

Relatively low emissions on Irish dairy farms provide justification for expanding national milk output to meet growing international demand.

However, these considerations are not well aligned with current EU policy and international agreements on tackling climate change. In the first place greenhouse gas emissions are accounted for and emission reduction targets are imposed on a national basis. Secondly, Ireland has one of the highest per capita greenhouse emissions in the EU because of our huge reliance on livestock based agriculture and relatively low human population density. The challenge for policy makers is how to meet the growing global demand for high quality and safe food while transitioning to a low carbon economy

Timmaay wrote: »

Copy and paste the text someone please.

Say my name

cute geoge wrote: »

Wtf is dolerite(lime?}bacteria/microbe source(dung?)/electrical conductivity and this sea water ,how far away is this collected and then doluted with water??? I am lost completely .By the way what ever you are doing it seems to be working but what about the cost of the now invisible urea spread as well as cost of haulage of sea water and whatever else you have being up to

Now I have a bit of time!!

Dolerite is a basalt rock formed by a volcanic intrusion that doesn't quite reach the surface. You'll have the formation of schist rock above the intrusion from the heat of the lava. The dolerite that I used was a mafic rock that is the major elements were magnesium, iron and calcite. But it would have every known element on earth in varying proportions and you'd see quartz in it too but as I say every known element.
Basalt and granite are rocks high in paramagnetism.
Btw dolerite is the stone used as road chippings. Have a look at the grass on the roadside and see if it grows well.

Bacteria/microbe source could be dung, slurry or rock dust that had time to work.

Electrical conductivity is the term that is used to measure the ability of ions to move in a soil. It is influenced by organic matter, nutrients, salinity and temperature.

The seawater well I didn't go far I live in a coastal county. So car, trailer and 200 litre barrel and bucket. It might not be legal so I didn't do that. Then diluted with well water.
The seawater is not as far fetched as you think. Farmers in cork and Cornwall used sand from below the high tide mark on their fields centuries ago. Plus Dr Maynard Murray used it in the U.S. many moons ago.
But I'm not advocating using it but I used on a once off and diluted and we are in a high rainfall country.
By looking at another field it goes well with slurry. But obviously there's sodium available with fertilizer on the market or seaweed products or that physolith stuff.

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

Now I have a bit of time!!

Dolerite is a basalt rock formed by a volcanic intrusion that doesn't quite reach the surface. You'll have the formation of schist rock above the intrusion from the heat of the lava. The dolerite that I used was a mafic rock that is the major elements were magnesium, iron and calcite. But it would have every known element on earth in varying proportions and you'd see quartz in it too but as I say every known element.
Basalt and granite are rocks high in paramagnetism.
Btw dolerite is the stone used as road chippings. Have a look at the grass on the roadside and see if it grows well.

Bacteria/microbe source could be dung, slurry or rock dust that had time to work.

Electrical conductivity is the term that is used to measure the ability of ions to move in a soil. It is influenced by organic matter, nutrients, salinity and temperature.

The seawater well I didn't go far I live in a coastal county. So car, trailer and 200 litre barrel and bucket. It might not be legal so I didn't do that. Then diluted with well water.
The seawater is not as far fetched as you think. Farmers in cork and Cornwall used sand from below the high tide mark on their fields centuries ago. Plus Dr Maynard Murray used it in the U.S. many moons ago.
But I'm not advocating using it but I used on a once off and diluted and we are in a high rainfall country.
By looking at another field it goes well with slurry. But obviously there's sodium available with fertilizer on the market or seaweed products or that physolith stuff.

One of the kiwi's we had his brother does organic beef, uses seawater and seaweed regularly. Gave us the idea of trying to grow peas in a grass reseed too.