Spread Urea or Not

cacs

I measured grass last week and i have an average farm cover of 1798. Last year i went out with 1/2 of bag of urea per acre and i had very high covers of grass.
In fact some of them got so strong that i could not graze them out, there was too much stem in them and i never got them back for the rest of the year. I let cattle out on the first of April last year. This year i am planning on letting lighter cattle out as soon as stops bloody raining or else i will have to life jackets on them. The only thing was last April the weather came very hard and there was no growth for the month as it was hard and dry. Its a hard call. The covers are not lush grass, its last back ends grass. So i guess my question is Urea or graze

GrasstoMilk

cathal irwin wrote: »

I measured grass last week and i have an average farm cover of 1798. Last year i went out with 1/2 of bag of urea per acre and i had very high covers of grass.
In fact some of them got so strong that i could not graze them out, there was too much stem in them and i never got them back for the rest of the year. I let cattle out on the first of April last year. This year i am planning on letting lighter cattle out as soon as stops bloody raining or else i will have to life jackets on them. The only thing was last April the weather came very hard and there was no growth for the month as it was hard and dry. Its a hard call. The covers are not lush grass, its last back ends grass. So i guess my question is Urea or graze

How have you so much grass? Those covers must be growing a long time and are surely nearly rotting?
Are you measuring in total figures or available?
Definitely get grazing if you can, you will have grass back by April

Who2

If your ground can’t take cattle then your wasting it. I’ve cows with calves out around a fortnight now cleaning down fields for slurry and a small batch of Weanlings moving around cleaning off other bits. There’s no point putting out fertilizer if you can’t utilize it.

cacs

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How have you so much grass? Those covers must be growing a long time and are surely nearly rotting?
Are you measuring in total figures or available?
Definitely get grazing if you can, you will have grass back by April

Thanks for that. I had them left since last November when conditions what to pot.
I housed rather poaching. I have good grass covers now, the quality of the grass is not great definitely and i figure if i don't clean them out they will be there as butt of sward effecting any regrowth. Like everyone the weather is so bad here. I am in the west and level of rain has been at an all time high.

Mooooo

If you can travel to get urea out you should be able to get stock out, start with weanlings and strip graze if the ground can take it, move em to a new patch everyday

cacs

Mooooo wrote: »

If you can travel to get urea out you should be able to get stock out, start with weanlings and strip graze if the ground can take it, move em to a new patch everyday

Thanks for that. Would it not be better to get them to clean out the paddocks before Urea or will it take too long to recover. I was planning on strip grazing ground conditions are shocking on some of the farm. Dry hills are fine.

Mooooo

If the covers are as high as you say try graze them first, paddocks that have been cleaned off will grow much faster than stuff that hasn't . Follow the stock then with the spinner. I saw this thing you can stick into a big bag of fert that allows you to take a certain amount and close it again, if you won't have enough ground for the full bag. It's the early grazing and giving it the extra time to recover will allow you to have grass again in march/ april

cacs

Mooooo wrote: »

If the covers are as high as you say try graze them first, paddocks that have been cleaned off will grow much faster than stuff that hasn't . Follow the stock then with the spinner. I saw this thing you can stick into a big bag of fert that allows you to take a certain amount and close it again, if you won't have enough ground for the full bag. It's the early grazing and giving it the extra time to recover will allow you to have grass again in march/ april

Thanks for that Moo. I don't have to worry about half or tone bags of fertilizer. Its 50kg bags here, we only have a small farm. I was surprised at the readings when i done the grass cover. I just bought a digital plate meter last November. Some of the paddocks that are set aside for Silage had covers around 1250 kg/dm honestly they looked as bare as bones. The fields that hand 2400 had around 10-12 cms of grass in them all be it old grass. The Fields with 2400 need to be grazed as they are silage fields and i could not spread slurry on them or it would destroy the grass

Mooooo

Check the make of the meter and the readings, some of the lads here would know better than me, the readings may include the residual which would make it look higher the the way it's done here. Grasstomilk above may know
Also don't start them on the very strongest stuff, start in paddocks that will be used for grazing .maybe and then when they are used to being back grazing head for the heavier stuff then. What I try to do is go thru grazing ground first and then do the silage ground and the first paddocks grazed should be fit for grazing then once it's all done

alps

cathal irwin wrote: »

Thanks for that Moo. I don't have to worry about half or tone bags of fertilizer. Its 50kg bags here, we only have a small farm. I was surprised at the readings when i done the grass cover. I just bought a digital plate meter last November. Some of the paddocks that are set aside for Silage had covers around 1250 kg/dm honestly they looked as bare as bones. The fields that hand 2400 had around 10-12 cms of grass in them all be it old grass. The Fields with 2400 need to be grazed as they are silage fields and i could not spread slurry on them or it would destroy the grass

If a field looked bare, and you gotta reading of 1250, your meter is measuring total covers...

This is normal, but to get an available cover you probably need to subtract 1500 or so from the meter figure..

If you give the make of the plate meter, I'm sure someone here will help with instructions...

cacs

Mooooo wrote: »

Check the make of the meter and the readings, some of the lads here would know better than me, the readings may include the residual which would make it look higher the the way it's done here. Grasstomilk above may know
Also don't start them on the very strongest stuff, start in paddocks that will be used for grazing .maybe and then when they are used to being back grazing head for the heavier stuff then. What I try to do is go thru grazing ground first and then do the silage ground and the first paddocks grazed should be fit for grazing then once it's all done

Thanks for that now i have figured out what is wrong. The measurements i am taking includes the residual. Does Pasture base take it away. Your right because i was looking at some of the fields think there not a huge amount of grass in them and it did not seem like a lot of grass on the ground. Teagasc was recommending around 1600 kg of dm / hectare

GrasstoMilk

cathal irwin wrote: »

Thanks for that Moo. I don't have to worry about half or tone bags of fertilizer. Its 50kg bags here, we only have a small farm. I was surprised at the readings when i done the grass cover. I just bought a digital plate meter last November. Some of the paddocks that are set aside for Silage had covers around 1250 kg/dm honestly they looked as bare as bones. The fields that hand 2400 had around 10-12 cms of grass in them all be it old grass. The Fields with 2400 need to be grazed as they are silage fields and i could not spread slurry on them or it would destroy the grass

Ahhhh I was thinking so.
Your plate meter is most likely giving you total cover as apposed to cover available. NZ system use 1500 as residual but it's added into what's available, so your paddocks with a cover of 2400 have a cover of 900 in the Irish system.
What make is the plate meter?
It would be unlikely that ground closed up in November would have 2400 kgs of dry matter
Your farm cover is more likely closer to 400, which would mean the farm is fairly bare.

If this is the case. Get urea out if you can travel and start grazing with the youngstock.
For grass to grow it needs to be eaten off to stimulate it.
Try ration out what grass you until to 10-15 th if April. This will set your farm up for the year and you will be able to start a proper rotation then.
Farm cover ideally needs to be c 500kg DM/ha at the start of the second round, you're below that already but i would still start grazing if possible to get grass to grow again.

Hope this helps

cacs

alps wrote: »

If a field looked bare, and you gotta reading of 1250, your meter is measuring total covers...

This is normal, but to get an available cover you probably need to subtract 1500 or so from the meter figure..

If you give the make of the plate meter, I'm sure someone here will help with instructions...

I am only new to this grass measuring
I knew i was going wrong, i could not have that much grass.
Should i take 1500 off the reading before i enter it into Pasturebase.

The plate meter i bought is the one sold by Ag hub F200 – Standard Plate Meter
http://agrisupplyservices.co.uk/platemeter-for-grass.htm

cacs

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Ahhhh I was thinking so.
Your plate meter is most likely giving you total cover as apposed to cover available. NZ system use 1500 as residual but it's added into what's available, so your paddocks with a cover of 2400 have a cover of 900 in the Irish system.
What make is the plate meter?
It would be unlikely that ground closed up in November would have 2400 kgs of dry matter
Your farm cover is more likely closer to 400, which would mean the farm is fairly bare.

If this is the case. Get urea out if you can travel and start grazing with the youngstock.
For grass to grow it needs to be eaten off to stimulate it.
Try ration out what grass you until to 10-15 th if April. This will set your farm up for the year and you will be able to start a proper rotation then.
Farm cover ideally needs to be c 500kg DM/ha at the start of the second round, you're below that already but i would still start grazing if possible to get grass to grow again.



Hope this helps

Thanks a million for that, I knew i was wrong. I contacted the company i bought it from, I contacted my Teagasc rep about measuring grass, Pasturebase and no one could me answer. I knew i was wrong by eye balling what was on the ground. I think the silage ground is too strong and needs to cleaned out before i put slurry out on it. But you are 100% right the rest looks like there is very little grass on it and it needs Urea.

Should i Take off 1500 from my figures before entering it into Pasturebase

einn32

cathal irwin wrote: »

Thanks a million for that, I knew i was wrong. I contacted the company i bought it from, I contacted my Teagasc rep about measuring grass, Pasturebase and no one could me answer. I knew i was wrong by eye balling what was on the ground. I think the silage ground is too strong and needs to cleaned out before i put slurry out on it. But you are 100% right the rest looks like there is very little grass on it and it needs Urea.

Should i Take off 1500 from my figures before entering it into Pasturebase

Maybe use a square to clip and weigh so then you will know for sure what's the figure on each paddock.

Keepgrowing

einn32 wrote: »

Maybe use a square to clip and weigh so then you will know for sure what's the figure on each paddock.

Really the only accurate system of measuring. Gets ones eye in. If you cut and weigh you'll move to "eyeballing" quickly and your plate meter will be redundant.

RobinBanks

Cathal,

I also have an F200 and funnily enough I am in the west aswell.

To clarify for you. One of your paddocks read 2400. The figure of 2400 is the total cover including what’s below 4.5 centimetres.

When using a shears you are likely to be cutting at a height of 4.5 centimetres (equivalent to 1500 kg DM) above the base of the soil.

The figure of 2400 (total) equates to 900kg DM (available cover). 2400 less 1500 (equivalent to what’s below 4.5 centimetres)

PM if you don't mind. Would like to talk to you a bit more about it.

Timmaay

Most yous still waiting to go out with urea? Sitting in the yard here, ground conditions very good the second, hopefully this band tonight and wed won't be too bad, prb go out later in the week across the full farm.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Most yous still waiting to go out with urea? Sitting in the yard here, ground conditions very good the second, hopefully this band tonight and wed won't be too bad, prb go out later in the week across the full farm.

Still in the bag and not looking like leaving it for next week .ground conditions just about ok but weather and ground are too cold ,so ansoutely no point spreading

Mooooo

Will spread urea on 40% of ground and slurry on the rest. Prob next week at the earliest given the weeks weather. Supposed to get a bit warmer at the end of the week but stay changeable. Ground soft yet, had to put a cow in the field the other day the loader nearly stayed with her

GrasstoMilk

Enough said!!!

Mooooo

Temps not the problem its wet ground. If temps had been the way they have been but less rain I'd have spread 2 weeks ago

GrasstoMilk

Mooooo wrote: »

Temps not the problem its wet ground. If temps had been the way they have been but less rain I'd have spread 2 weeks ago

Fully agree with you on that mooo. But the lads that are out with slurry should be well able to get urea out.
Too wet for urea but it's okay to fire out the slurry. It's the same form of nitrogen in both

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Fully agree with you on that mooo. But the lads that are out with slurry should be well able to get urea out.
Too wet for urea but it's okay to fire out the slurry. It's the same form of nitrogen in both

Temps nowhere near 8degrees here ,last Friday 3 fields done none over 5.4! Degrees .pointless wasting time putting out urea in such conditions

Gawddawggonnit

I’ll just leave this here...

http://e360.yale.edu/features/can-the-world-find-solutions-to-the-nitrogen-pollution-crisis

adam14

Absolute waste of time spreading fert in this weather and I'm in the south east.

mahoney_j

adam14 wrote: »

Absolute waste of time spreading fert in this weather and I'm in the south east.

But sure your man in the journal said tis ok so it must be ,grsisce consulting on twitter makes perfect sense on this topic .pure pointless spreading atm .

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

But sure your man in the journal said tis ok so it must be ,grsisce consulting on twitter makes perfect sense on this topic .pure pointless spreading atm .

If the easterly front mt cranium is talking about sets in, lads would be better spending the money on feed, looking like a very late spring, a mountain of feed is already being moved around here too

alps

I've never seen ground so wet here in Spring...the paddocks that were grazed out at the end of last rotation mid November, look like they were grazed yesterday...no winter repair, no winter growth. They'll be hard pressed to have a grazing on them by the start of April...

mahoney_j

jaymla627 wrote: »

If the easterly front mt cranium is talking about sets in, lads would be better spending the money on feed, looking like a very late spring, a mountain of feed is already being moved around here too

I’m keeping an eye on weather forum and you would have to be worried looking at it .this is the latest I ever remember having no urea out and this is an early farm .cows are out and slurry just about going out but ground temps still just over 5

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

I’m keeping an eye on weather forum and you would have to be worried looking at it .this is the latest I ever remember having no urea out and this is an early farm .cows are out and slurry just about going out but ground temps still just over 5

So it's okay for slurry but not urea?
They are both the same forms of N

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

So it's okay for slurry but not urea?
They are both the same forms of N

Yes and I’ve a question for u is it ok to leave slurry up through slats ???,slurry is more about p and k for me than n at this time of year .farmers seem to be loosing common sense when it comes to doing certain tasks and just follow the speil thrown out by certain journos .grass won’t grow when ground temps are under 6 and when ground is borderline too wet why go out and compact it .ive seen no data yet nor can I see with current weather how soil temps could be any higher .nothing only reckless spreading it ,ei

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes and I’ve a question for u is it ok to leave slurry up through slats ???,slurry is more about p and k for me than n at this time of year .farmers seem to be loosing common sense when it comes to doing certain tasks and just follow the speil thrown out by certain journos .grass won’t grow when ground temps are under 6 and when ground is borderline too wet why go out and compact it .ive seen no data yet nor can I see with current weather how soil temps could be any higher .nothing only reckless spreading it ,ei

Fair enough. I'm following research and I trust it more than someone who hasn't done the research. I'm also doing what has worked here for the last number of years since I started spreading early urea. It might not be working today but the days the soil temps are up my grass will be growing while yours is still in the bag.

I've a south facing farm and get good winter growth and got decent winter growth compared to most this year, grass has nothing left in it come this time of the year to keep going.

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm following research and I trust it more than someone who hasn't done the research. I'm also doing what has worked here for the last number of years since I started spreading early urea. It might not be working today but the days the soil temps are up my grass will be growing while yours is still in the bag.

I've a south facing farm and get good winter growth and got decent winter growth compared to most this year, grass has nothing left in it come this time of the year to keep going.

It's all farm specific, have 60 acres here that I haven't been able to get out on since the middle of September and will be lucky to get out on in march, 75% of ground farmed at the minute isn't travelable with a tractor, and I live at the foot of a mountain with temperatures below freezing the past 3 weeks at night, would the ole urea work for us in your expert opinion

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm following research and I trust it more than someone who hasn't done the research. I'm also doing what has worked here for the last number of years since I started spreading early urea. It might not be working today but the days the soil temps are up my grass will be growing while yours is still in the bag.

I've a south facing farm and get good winter growth and got decent winter growth compared to most this year, grass has nothing left in it come this time of the year to keep going.

I follow research but I also farm with a bit of common sense and respect for tbf environment and also my pocket ..I went with a bag of urea last janurary cause conditions and weather were favourable ,there anything but atm so I’m using common sense .did I read somewhere else a few weeks back u were dissapointed with winter growth ????,

charolais0153

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yes and I’ve a question for u is it ok to leave slurry up through slats ???,slurry is more about p and k for me than n at this time of year .farmers seem to be loosing common sense when it comes to doing certain tasks and just follow the speil thrown out by certain journos .grass won’t grow when ground temps are under 6 and when ground is borderline too wet why go out and compact it .ive seen no data yet nor can I see with current weather how soil temps could be any higher .nothing only reckless spreading it ,ei

There is also an argument that you should have more slurry storage so that you dont have to pollute the environment

mahoney_j

charolais0153 wrote: »

There is also an argument that you should have more slurry storage so that you dont have to pollute the environment

Fully nitrate complient here as regards slurry storage

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

I follow research but I also farm with a bit of common sense and respect for tbf environment and also my pocket ..I went with a bag of urea last janurary cause conditions and weather were favourable ,there anything but atm so I’m using common sense .did I read somewhere else a few weeks back u were dissapointed with winter growth ????,

You did and my farm cover has increased an awful lot since then thankfully. A mixture of underestimating what was there at the time and January growth

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's all farm specific, have 60 acres here that I haven't been able to get out on since the middle of September and will be lucky to get out on in march, 75% of ground farmed at the minute isn't travelable with a tractor, and I live at the foot of a mountain with temperatures below freezing the past 3 weeks at night, would the ole urea work for us in your expert opinion

No I wouldn't be spreading in your scenario. I've 16% of the farm not spread here because it's too wet but every other acre got urea

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You did and my farm cover has increased an awful lot since then thankfully. A mixture of underestimating what was there at the time and January growth

Gr can’t of been much more than 3/5 per day since Jan 1 regardless of urea spread

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Gr can’t of been much more than 3/5 per day since Jan 1 regardless of urea spread

I underestimated my previous farm cover also

whelan2

Its only the thirteenth of February. Cant even walk the farm here never mind spread anything. Every farm is different. Som lads like to willy wave that they have cows out and stuff spread, let them work away. 8tonne of fertilizer sitting in my shed here since last September. It wont be going anywhere for a while. We all deal with the conditions we are dealt with. If the weather is still the same in a months time. Then I'll worry

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fully nitrate complient here as regards slurry storage

Only if you're spreading in perfect conditions

Keepgrowing

I'll be spreading early next week by the looks of the forecast. Ground conditions are good but I won't spread till soil temps are steady at 6 for a few days and rising.

Spread it, don't spread it who gives a shyte but accusing people of will waving for having cows out or using a thread to have a go at a journalist makes this place less pleasant.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I'll be spreading early next week by the looks of the forecast. Ground conditions are good but I won't spread till soil temps are steady at 6 for a few days and rising.

Spread it, don't spread it who gives a shyte but accusing people of will waving for having cows out or using a thread to have a go at a journalist makes this place less pleasant.

Said journo well able to handle himself dosnt like his methods questioned .nothing personal from me but I’ve a right to ask a question same as he has right to print an article .disregarded another leading dairy advisor with different views a while back not right either

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

Said journo well able to handle himself dosnt like his methods questioned .nothing personal from me but I’ve a right to ask a question same as he has right to print an article .disregarded another leading dairy advisor with different views a while back not right either

That other "consultant", failed farmer was peddling AI straws not too long ago. A lot of crap out of him too.

Say my name

A few pictures of what's happening on farm.

Picture 1 three quarters of a bag urea and diluted seawater.
Picture 2 across the wire half bag urea and 2ton dolerite per acre and not much or zero growth.

It's a crap old sod that's bad for spring growth. It will be reseeded this year.
But you can see the difference.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

That other "consultant", failed farmer was peddling AI straws not too long ago. A lot of crap out of him too.

We all spout crap from time to time ,in fairness to mr vb his views on spreading urea in current conditions make scientific sense whereas the opposite view is just spread which makes no scientific sense failed farmer bit harsh he has rebounded and reinvented himself ,had him here didn’t buy into all his ideas but def did on some and liked an alternative thought provoking view

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

We all spout crap from time to time ,in fairness to mr vb his views on spreading urea in current conditions make scientific sense whereas the opposite view is just spread which makes no scientific sense failed farmer bit harsh he has rebounded and reinvented himself ,had him here didn’t buy into all his ideas but def did on some and liked an alternative thought provoking view

I like reading his stuff but failed farmer is accurate. I'm always suspicious of consultants who haven't done it or can't do it.

Fully agree re Urea ATM

Say my name

A few more..

First pic a field across the ditch from previous post. In the foreground is the first paddock grazed this year with clear regrowth and the background cows in today's paddock.
The paddock in the foreground got dung in October. Closed up in start of November. Got 2t dolerite and diluted seawater and half bag urea at opening date.
The paddock where cows are grazing got all the above except the ds. The cows don't seem as happy on that paddock.
2nd pic same field across the laneway.
Got no dung but got dolerite and diluted seawater and urea and clear regrowth today.

Field reseeded 7 years ago.

Say my name

A few more...

Field closed off at end of Oct.
Got dung and dolerite and half bag urea at opening date.
Second pic across the ditch.
Closed a week later and got nothing. No growth.