Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

barneyrub

Ya must only be for new cars.
ours is second hand

barneyrub

Ya must only be for new cars.
ours is second hand

Himselfe

I'll be bringing my newly purchased Leaf (30kw with 6.6kw charger) back from the UK tomorrow and was thinking I might be able to purchase a charger to install at home on the way (well, I'll get a sparky to install it obviously). Anyone know of any reputable sellers I could pay a visit to? I'll be driving from Milton Keynes to Holyhead, so anywhere in between would be ideal. Just on the off chance someone might know a place.
Thanks!

Ush1

Hi lads,

I'm collecting a 2013 leaf with 24kwh and 3.3kw charging on Saturday.

I'm interested in electric Ireland's offer for 750 installation. Would only be 150 quid on top of the grant.

They said its a Single Phase ABL eMH1 model. We are supplying it as untethered so it comes with a Type 2 socket rather than a cable and its a 3.6kw charge point.

No clue what any of that means but am I getting the right yoke and is there a cheaper way?

denismc

Ush1 wrote: »

Hi lads,

I'm collecting a 2013 leaf with 24kwh and 3.3kw charging on Saturday.

I'm interested in electric Ireland's offer for 750 installation. Would only be 150 quid on top of the grant.

They said its a Single Phase ABL eMH1 model. We are supplying it as untethered so it comes with a Type 2 socket rather than a cable and its a 3.6kw charge point.

No clue what any of that means but am I getting the right yoke and is there a cheaper way?

Nothing wrong with that charger but If you ever upgrade to something with a bigger battery that charger may seem a bit slow, if you charge overnight then it's fine.
I am getting a 7kw charger installed for 850 euro so there is probably better value out there.

Ush1

denismc wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that charger but If you ever upgrade to something with a bigger battery that charger may seem a bit slow, if you charge overnight then it's fine.
I am getting a 7kw charger installed for 850 euro so there is probably better value out there.

Can I ask where you got that quote?

unkel

Ush1 wrote: »

Can I ask where you got that quote?

A 7.2kW Zappi is probably one of the most desirable chargers out there. Costs about €550 incl VAT for the charger itself. The materials for a basic install (cable, RCBO, ducting) come to well under €100 incl VAT and it is about 1-2 hours work

So even a basic install with a high end charger should come in under €850 unless the installer is ripping you off

If you buy a cheaper (but still new) 7kW charger yourself, the install should come in under €600, so basically completely free after the subsidy

Ush1

unkel wrote: »

A 7.2kW Zappi is probably one of the most desirable chargers out there. Costs about €550 incl VAT for the charger itself. The materials for a basic install (cable, RCBO, ducting) come to well under €100 incl VAT and it is about 1-2 hours work

So even a basic install with a high end charger should come in under €850 unless the installer is ripping you off

If you buy a cheaper (but still new) 7kW charger yourself, the install should come in under €600, so basically completely free after the subsidy

Can you post a link where to get it at that price and an installer?

unkel

Zappi can be had from electricautos.ie

Any registered electrician can get all the other parts and do the install. It is pretty much exactly the same as installing an outside socket - a very basic job

DesperateDan

Are Zappis only very useful if you are installing solar panels?

DrPhilG

I've had a quote from a spark to replace my Rolec with the Zappi.

Getting the Zappi from Electric Autos for €585, spark quoted €180 to fit it. That's kinda expensive given that the wiring is already in place but he'll test and certify it so I'll qualify for the grant.

So the upgrade will cost me about €165, not bad since I'll be getting a new tethered zappi charger in place of an untethered 3.5 year old Rolec.

The Rolec will go up for sale which should recover a fair bit of that outlay.

unkel

DesperateDan wrote: »

Are Zappis only very useful if you are installing solar panels?

Yes. But seeing as the Zappi charger only costs marginally more then another charger, you might as well go for one to start with. Especially when it is almost fully paid for by a subsidy

If you don't have solar panels now, it is quite likely that you will in future. These also attract very generous subsidies since last month BTW

ted1

unkel wrote: »

Yes. But seeing as the Zappi charger only costs marginally more then another charger, you might as well go for one to start with. Especially when it is almost fully paid for by a subsidy

If you don't have solar panels now, it is quite likely that you will in future. These also attract very generous subsidies since last month BTW

But realistically does it make a difference? How many people will charge the car during day light hours as opposed to over night.

I think Zappi are fixing a problem that doesn’t exist.
Also if you have so much energy to spare during the day does it not indicate an incorrectly sized PV system?

unkel

Both good points, ted1.

It won't make a difference if you don't have PV or if you do, but don't have the car at your house much during the day. I for one do have my car at the house quite often during the day

Also I presume Zappi is smart so it can already (or can be easily modified to) work with multiple electricity rates and smart home meters. Dumb chargers can't. And about incorrectly sized PV system (I presume you mean a system that is too big), I don't really think you can have a solar PV system that is too big. We will use more and more electricity (and less other fuels) in the house. And I expect battery storage to become a lot cheaper over time. Zappi can work with home batteries too. And again presumably it will be able to cater for V2H / V2G. Big subsidies at the moment for PV (and battery) installs too. If you are going for a subsidised install, the best value is a system with as big an array and as small a battery as possible. The PV array will be maintenance free and easily last 25-30 years. I also expect the tax / VAT / excise / environmental charges on electricity to increase. And no one can charge you for electricity you produce yourself :cool:

Or in a summary: if you can have a basic EVSE installed for free or a Zappi for €200, I think you would be nuts to not go with the Zappi

denismc

The Zappi is handy for me as I work shift, I do most of my charging at work but I will do the odd charge at home during the day when I am sleeping.
I already have PV panels installed so it makes sense for me. And all PV systems will produce a surplus no matter how you size them.
And as others have pointed out you can buy the unit yourself and get the local electrician to install, the net cost to me will be about 2-250 euro

KCross

DesperateDan wrote: »

Are Zappis only very useful if you are installing solar panels?

ted1 wrote: »

But realistically does it make a difference? How many people will charge the car during day light hours as opposed to over night.

I think Zappi are fixing a problem that doesn’t exist.

There is more to the Zappi than just SolarPV integration although the SolarPV piece is the feature they use most to market it... i guess they are playing the green angle.

It also does load balancing and load limiting which is very important if you plan to have 2 EV's in the house at some point in the future or if you have other power hungry devices in the house like an electric shower where you need to ensure fuses are not tripping.

I would rate those 2 features above SolarPV but the point is, the Zappi has them all, by default.

Most of the other dumb EVSE's have none of that and are not that much cheaper.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Most of the other dumb EVSE's have none of that and are not that much cheaper.

My point exactly.

Do you know if a Zappi can work with smart metering / variable rates? Or can be programmed to be? Or needs needs new firmware for when this comes into play?

I do plan to replace my ABL charger with a Zappi at some point as it is a straight swap for what I have and I can sell on the ABL, so I would only be looking at say €550 for the Zappi minus say €300 for my untethered 32A ABL (is this too optmistic?)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Do you know if a Zappi can work with smart metering / variable rates? Or can be programmed to be? Or needs needs new firmware for when this comes into play?

Not sure exactly what the question is. It has timers so you can of course charge on cheaper rates but I dont think thats what you are asking?

The whole smart metering and associated tariffs thing is not rolled out yet in Ireland or the UK and in any case it doesnt look like it will be realtime pricing so not sure what the Zappi could do better other than timers based around the multiple tariff times.

unkel wrote: »

I do plan to replace my ABL charger with a Zappi at some point as it is a straight swap for what I have and I can sell on the ABL, so I would only be looking at say €550 for the Zappi minus say €300 for my untethered 32A ABL (is this too optmistic?)

I think thats optimistic.
Would you buy a used one for €300 or a new one with 2yr warranty for €100 or so more? No way I'd give someone €300 for a used one, just for warranty reasons alone.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

not sure what the Zappi could do better other than timers based around the multiple tariff times.

It might be programmable - a bit more than just using a dumb timer? In the way you suggested how IOT enabled hardware could work with variable rates (published via an API)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

It might be programmable - a bit more than just using a dumb timer? In the way you suggested how IOT enabled hardware could work with variable rates (published via an API)

I'm sure that will come in time but it doesnt do that right now. The main stumbling block there would be that the energy providers would need to devise and agree an API/standard that devices could then adhere to. I havent seen any of that happening and clearly it wouldnt make sense for Zappi to do it on an ad-hoc basis for each provider. It would need to be a published standard to make it viable to programme and release it in their device.

For now, its just dumb timers.

DrPhilG

I'm hoping it can be programmed.

One downside of the i3 is that it's a bit of a pain in the arse to override the timer when using a public slow charger.

In the Leaf you just press the timer override button and off you go. In the i3 you have to go into the menu and change from "off peak charging" to "charge immediately". Then change back afterwards.

If the Zappi can restrict my home charging to night rate then I can just leave the timer in the car off.

unkel

And the timer override button just works for the one charge then? That's a better system.

DrPhilG wrote: »

In the i3 you have to go into the menu and change from "off peak charging" to "charge immediately". Then change back afterwards.

Same in Ioniq. And you do get caught out with your car home charging at the expensive day rate if you didn't remember to switch it back

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

And the timer override button just works for the one charge then? That's a better system.

Same in Ioniq. And you do get caught out with your car home charging at the expensive day rate if you didn't remember to switch it back

Yeah it's far better.


Just press that button after (or immediately before) you plug in and it will charge straight away, and it's a one time instruction.

Same applies if you use the app, it will change to immediate charge but as a one off instruction.

With the i3 whether you go via the car menu or the app it will change permanently and you need to manually change back.

DrPhilG

Not that I'm having buyers regret of course. I3 GOM told me the other day that I had 116 miles on battery and another 82 on REx. I was only at 88% too!

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

And the timer override button just works for the one charge then? That's a better system.



Same in Ioniq. And you do get caught out with your car home charging at the expensive day rate if you didn't remember to switch it back

Ioniq override button works for just the one charge too though.
No risk of being caught out if you leave it to default charge only at night rate time and use the override button for individual charges.

DrPhilG

Quick question, the eligibility criteria for the grant says that the "charger must be connected back to the fuse board on the home of the applicant".

What does that mean exactly? My charger is in the garage and is connected to a fuse board in the garage. Does that count as separate to the main fuse board in the house itself?

denismc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Quick question, the eligibility criteria for the grant says that the "charger must be connected back to the fuse board on the home of the applicant".

What does that mean exactly? My charger is in the garage and is connected to a fuse board in the garage. Does that count as separate to the main fuse board in the house itself?

I would think once its connected to you main meter somehow that its ok.
I think the grant is associated with your houses MPRN, I guess this is to keep people from availing of the grant multiple times.

denismc

unkel wrote: »

My point exactly.

Do you know if a Zappi can work with smart metering / variable rates? Or can be programmed to be? Or needs needs new firmware for when this comes into play?

I do plan to replace my ABL charger with a Zappi at some point as it is a straight swap for what I have and I can sell on the ABL, so I would only be looking at say €550 for the Zappi minus say €300 for my untethered 32A ABL (is this too optmistic?)

I fired off an email to Myenergi as I was curious about this also, their response:

"Thanks for getting in touch. The eSense function needs a physical wired connection from an economy tariff source, into the eSense connection within the zappi. That wiring then automatically becomes live during the economy tariff times and initiates a charge.


Its also possible to set timers within the esense menu to control when you want to charge but this still needs the wiring connection putting to the esense terminals.


We say to customers that if you have a dual tariff meter fitted, then you can set boost timers to coincide with your economy times and therefore there's no need to put any additional wiring to the zappi."

To be fair to these guys they are always quick to respond.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Quick question, the eligibility criteria for the grant says that the "charger must be connected back to the fuse board on the home of the applicant".

What does that mean exactly? My charger is in the garage and is connected to a fuse board in the garage. Does that count as separate to the main fuse board in the house itself?

They just mean that its not connected to some independent supply. As long as the power going to the car is coming from your house meter they will be happy with that. You provide your MPRN and thats the box ticked for them.

denismc wrote: »

I would think once its connected to you main meter somehow that its ok.
I think the grant is associated with your houses MPRN, I guess this is to keep people from availing of the grant multiple times.

+1

denismc wrote: »

I fired off an email to Myenergi as I was curious about this also, their response:

"Thanks for getting in touch. The eSense function needs a physical wired connection from an economy tariff source, into the eSense connection within the zappi. That wiring then automatically becomes live during the economy tariff times and initiates a charge.


Its also possible to set timers within the esense menu to control when you want to charge but this still needs the wiring connection putting to the esense terminals.


We say to customers that if you have a dual tariff meter fitted, then you can set boost timers to coincide with your economy times and therefore there's no need to put any additional wiring to the zappi."

To be fair to these guys they are always quick to respond.

This is really just two things...

- Delay timer so that you can avail of night rate electricity... nothing new there.
- The eSense thing doesnt work in Ireland, AFAIK. You need a specific meter or install where additional economy tariffs can be sensed by Zappi and then it fires up the car charger. Its not applicable to Ireland as we have fixed time based tariffs and I dont think it will apply when we get SmartMeters either.

tldr; Its not really integrated with SmartMeter's in any direct way or availing of market rate electricity etc.

If market based pricing does come out I'm sure Zappi will be the first to implement it. They are onto a winner already with that they have so they will want to maintain that advantage.

DesperateDan

I'm going to try and find someone to install a Zappi based on what I'm hearing here on boards it's worth it even without a solar right now.

None of the other chargers seem to have this load balancing so paying a bit more is worth it. An extra priority switch install seems to be a good €100. Can anyone recommend any Zappi installers?