Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

KCross

Maddic_Irl wrote: »

Some excellent points there, thank you! I see the points you are making but I am looking at it from another point of view, not just ROI but also opportunity cost. As you have pointed out PV would do little to reduce my main cost contributor, smart meter with night rates might and if not, any investment I make would be targeted at that for a quicker ROI. I appreciate your comments, gave me more variables to consider including the possibility of FiT which I would need to consider in any ROI assessment.

Apologies that this has gone off topic somewhat, valuable info there for me at least.

Are you not already on a day/night meter? With a HP and an EV you should have a day/night meter already and that’s free to get. You don’t need a smart meter for that.

As I understand it, the smart meter will add a 3rd time period to the current two time periods. I think initially the idea is to add a 5-7pm tariff. If they go with that you can change your HP an EV timers to avoid that time period. You don’t need to wait for smart meters though. You should be on a day/night meter right now and Solar PV is a separate decision.

There is also the possibility that current Solar grants will get reduced when they bring in FiT so waiting might not help there either. Have a look at the Renewable Energy forum to get an idea of costs and generation figures etc.

Good luck either way.

Maddic_Irl

KCross wrote: »

Are you not already on a day/night meter? With a HP and an EV you should have a day/night meter already and that’s free to get.

I have just one of the old analog meter, house was built 2003.

I didn't know that, thank you. I was only aware of the older day/night system with two analog meters, I must look into it, cheers!

Badger242

cruisey1987 wrote: »

EO Mini with the ALM module should cover your needs. Make sure your friend is reci certified, you might need to provide a test cert to claim the grant money

Thanks for reply. He is certified. So no need for the Pro model? Also, any one able to purchase an EO mini online and how much? Asked for a quote from the EO website and they will only give one as long as one of their registered electricians lined up to install.

slave1

Maddic_Irl wrote: »

.... have ordered a Zappi just in case of PV or similar further down the road.

Run at least two Cat 5 cables from Consumer Unit to your Zappi, you’ll need this if you ever get PV so simple and inexpensive to do so now while running the power cable

zg3409

Maddic_Irl wrote: »

I have just one of the old analog meter, house was built 2003.

I didn't know that, thank you. I was only aware of the older day/night system with two analog meters, I must look into it, cheers!

Beware smart meters.
There are 3 basic meter types

1) with one mechanical or digital dial, only one rate 24 hours
2) A night rate with 2 displays mechanical or digital, fixed night hours
3) Recently installed smart metres. At present these CANNOT do night rate, or any rate except normal 24 hour rate. In the future they may have fancy options or rates, but none are actually available yet.

For EV a night Meter is best, but beware unless you are doing a fair commute it might not make sense as the day cost is slightly higher. It cab save a good bit if you have a long commute. After first year you can calculate the savings and switch back to 24 hour plan without changing the Meter.

You can't get a smart meter if you are on night rate now, as they can't do night rate. So all my neighbours got a smart meter, but I was not offered one and would have refused it anyway.

403 Forbidden

zg3409 wrote: »

Beware smart meters.
There are 3 basic meter types

1) with one mechanical or digital dial, only one rate 24 hours
2) A night rate with 2 displays mechanical or digital, fixed night hours
3) Recently installed smart metres. At present these CANNOT do night rate, or any rate except normal 24 hour rate. In the future they may have fancy options or rates, but none are actually available yet.

For EV a night Meter is best, but beware unless you are doing a fair commute it might not make sense as the day cost is slightly higher. It cab save a good bit if you have a long commute. After first year you can calculate the savings and switch back to 24 hour plan without changing the Meter.

You can't get a smart meter if you are on night rate now, as they can't do night rate. So all my neighbours got a smart meter, but I was not offered one and would have refused it anyway.

I hope its possible to change soon! I've got a smart meter (new build) and will be keen to switch to day/night as ill have the EV and running a heatpump.

ffocused

Has anyone got any experience with AmonEV in Naas?
They are the only company who have come back to me with a quote for a charger install.

rx8

ffocused wrote: »

Has anyone got any experience with AmonEV in Naas?
They are the only company who have come back to me with a quote for a charger install.

I've sent you a pm about the installer that did mine. They mostly do zappi's, but will also do Rolec and Garo ones.

podge3

cruisey1987 wrote: »

By meter board you mean the ESB meter?


Short answer, yes, but with complications


You can't connect it directly into the meter, you'd need to add another board beside the meter box with 2 connections, one for the EV charger and one for your house


The house fuse board then becomes a sub board of the fuse board outside

Probably a stupid question but can the new board not be connected in parallel to the existing?

DM1983

Hi All,

Purchased this charge point in error about 3 weeks ago.

https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wall-mounted-chargers/products/wallpod-ev-multi-mode-j1772-type-1-tethered-cable-5m?variant=40494191300

Type 1 tethered 32A Rolec with a separate 3 pin plug so would suit Nissan Leaf or Mitsubishi Outlander

Very handy if you have an electric lawnmower or similar!

I can send it back for a refund but will offer it here for €480 if anyone is interested. It's still in the box unopened.

Collection from Greystones only.

Edit: should have been clear I paid €509.

the_amazing_raisin

podge3 wrote: »

Probably a stupid question but can the new board not be connected in parallel to the existing?

No, I don't think this is allowed, since your ESB meter contains an 80A fuse for circuit protection. You fuse board will have a 64A fuse as well which should blow first if there's a fault.

If you connected a second board in parallel with say a 32A fuse then the whole setup could draw 96A and blow the fuse in the meter

darrenheaphy

KCross wrote: »

Are you not already on a day/night meter? With a HP and an EV you should have a day/night meter already and that’s free to get. You don’t need a smart meter for that.

As I understand it, the smart meter will add a 3rd time period to the current two time periods. I think initially the idea is to add a 5-7pm tariff. If they go with that you can change your HP an EV timers to avoid that time period. You don’t need to wait for smart meters though. You should be on a day/night meter right now and Solar PV is a separate decision.

There is also the possibility that current Solar grants will get reduced when they bring in FiT so waiting might not help there either. Have a look at the Renewable Energy forum to get an idea of costs and generation figures etc.

Good luck either way.

Same set up as you both, am getting the Zappi installed via Nigel Daly to future proof. Methinks though that in the longer term switching from a ground sourced heat pump to an air-to-water might be more economical that supplementing with solar but it's a while away yet in any event

podge3

cruisey1987 wrote: »

No, I don't think this is allowed, since your ESB meter contains an 80A fuse for circuit protection. You fuse board will have a 64A fuse as well which should blow first if there's a fault.

If you connected a second board in parallel with say a 32A fuse then the whole setup could draw 96A and blow the fuse in the meter

Yeah, that makes sense.

mfceiling

Newbie question guys.

The missus is looking at a Porsche Cayenne and possibly a second full electric car for me.

What are we doing?

Can you buy a charger from a bricks and mortar shop?

What's the best brand?

Is there a list of registered electricians for the install?

Is the grant still available?

Sorry for the questions but we are complete and utter newbies into this world.

Thanks!!

the_amazing_raisin

mfceiling wrote: »

Newbie question guys.

The missus is looking at a Porsche Cayenne and possibly a second full electric car for me.

What are we doing?

Can you buy a charger from a bricks and mortar shop?

What's the best brand?

Is there a list of registered electricians for the install?

Is the grant still available?

Sorry for the questions but we are complete and utter newbies into this world.

Thanks!!

Answers inline

What are we doing?
Can't really tell you, boards is probably not the best place to ask that one

Can you buy a charger from a bricks and mortar shop?
Not that I know of, but I think screwfix might have started selling them. A lot of folks seem to buy them online or through the installer

What's the best brand?
Depends on what you need, there's everything from budget models to fancy expensive ones

Is there a list of registered electricians for the install?
Any RECI electrician can do it, check safeelectric.ie

Is the grant still available?
Yes, check seai.ie

KCross

mfceiling wrote: »

Newbie question guys.

The missus is looking at a Porsche Cayenne and possibly a second full electric car for me.

What are we doing?

I dont know.... buying two cars?!

mfceiling wrote: »

Can you buy a charger from a bricks and mortar shop?

Most electrical stores wont have them. Most people buy online or get it provided by whoever is installing it.

mfceiling wrote: »

What's the best brand?

Thats very subjective and it really depends on what you want/need.

Considerations.... e.g. cheap and cheerful, bells and whistles, aestethics etc.

Do you have any requirements? Budget, app support, looks, Solar integration etc?

mfceiling wrote: »

Is there a list of registered electricians for the install?

Any electrician can do it.
If you want to draw the €600 grant from SEAI you have to use a SafeElectric registered electrician and provide a cert for the job.

mfceiling wrote: »

Is the grant still available?

Yes
https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

mfceiling

Thanks lads.

Obviously we would like a "good" branded one. Not averse to spending money on this as I'd rather fork out on something decent and reliable if we're going down the EV route.

This forum is great for questions/answers etc!!

Aph2016

Zappi seems to be one of the best, have watched videos and they say to avoid Rolec. Still looking myself, don't want one with any fancy apps, just plug in and charge and thats it. Reliability is the most important.

phill106

Related question... have the zappi outside for the 330e, going great. Is there a way to tap off it for an outdoor 3 pin socket?
Or an adapter that allows same?
Assuming no, is there anything i should be way of in getting some local electrician to do so, ie stay the hell away from the feed to the zappi?

Gael23

barrymanilow wrote: »

Thanks,

If they were availing of the grant should they go more expensive , is that what you mean? Or can you only get the grant if you go via certain installers?

That sounds like a great price . They are simple folk , they just want to plug the car into the wall and charge it like a phone.

I believe the basic ESB unit is €499 after the grant

Felexicon

mfceiling wrote: »

Thanks lads.

Obviously we would like a "good" branded one. Not averse to spending money on this as I'd rather fork out on something decent and reliable if we're going down the EV route.

This forum is great for questions/answers etc!!

Most electrical wholesalers stock them.at this stage if you want to buy direct.
Usually it's a Garo unit. They are very basic and build quality is a bit flimsy but internal components are good.

Stay clear of the Rolec wallpod. By far the most problematic brand/model I've come across.

Then the main brands you will be looking at are
Wallbox
Zappi
EO

All 3 have various options available depending on your requirements.

You mentioned the possib6of 2 EVs.
Are you thinking 9f getting 2 chargers?
Even if this is only something to be considered down the line you will want to check the model you pick can use load management on a cluster of chargers.

the_amazing_raisin

phill106 wrote: »

Related question... have the zappi outside for the 330e, going great. Is there a way to tap off it for an outdoor 3 pin socket?
Or an adapter that allows same?
Assuming no, is there anything i should be way of in getting some local electrician to do so, ie stay the hell away from the feed to the zappi?

I'm planning on doing something similar and got some feedback from the support guys at Zappi

You can do it, but you'll need to add a CT clamp to the circuit, I think it needs to be between the socket and the fuse board (or Zappi depending on which order they're wired)

You'll need to connect that CT clamp to the Zappi and set a group limit based on that CT input.

Presumably the cable is rated for 32A, so you'll be setting a 32A group limit. If the socket is drawing 10A the Zappi will adjust it's charging current to 22A (or whatever the next lowest setting is) to prevent overloading the circuit

mfceiling

Felexicon wrote: »

Most electrical wholesalers stock them.at this stage if you want to buy direct.
Usually it's a Garo unit. They are very basic and build quality is a bit flimsy but internal components are good.

Stay clear of the Rolec wallpod. By far the most problematic brand/model I've come across.

Then the main brands you will be looking at are
Wallbox
Zappi
EO

All 3 have various options available depending on your requirements.

You mentioned the possib6of 2 EVs.
Are you thinking 9f getting 2 chargers?
Even if this is only something to be considered down the line you will want to check the model you pick can use load management on a cluster of chargers.

Thank you!!

Only going with one charger as the wife is considering a hybrid model and the other car will be a full EV.

the_amazing_raisin

mfceiling wrote: »

Thank you!!

Only going with one charger as the wife is considering a hybrid model and the other car will be a full EV.

Can I recommend she looks at a PHEV? If her daily commute is less than around 30km then she could drive electric only and save a nice bit of money on fuel

mfceiling

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Can I recommend she looks at a PHEV? If her daily commute is less than around 30km then she could drive electric only and save a nice bit of money on fuel

Hi...yeah she's looking at a porsche cayenne which appears to be able to run on electric only. Her commute (if it ever comes back to that) is around 20 miles round trip so it should almost cover that on electric only!!

liamog

mfceiling wrote: »

Hi...yeah she's looking at a porsche cayenne which appears to be able to run on electric only. Her commute (if it ever comes back to that) is around 20 miles round trip so it should almost cover that on electric only!!

One thing to be wary of, PHEV's need to be charged more often than a BEV. To obtain the benefit she'll need to be plugging in every day, whereas with two BEV's she'd need to charge much less often. This isn't an argument against getting the PHEV, it's a suggestion that you are more likely to need two charge points if one of them is a PHEV.

mfceiling

liamog wrote: »

One thing to be wary of, PHEV's need to be charged more often than a BEV. To obtain the benefit she'll need to be plugging in every day, whereas with two BEV's she'd need to charge much less often. This isn't an argument against getting the PHEV, it's a suggestion that you are more likely to need two charge points if one of them is a PHEV.

Thanks Liam....food for thought!!

Cyrus

liamog wrote: »

One thing to be wary of, PHEV's need to be charged more often than a BEV. To obtain the benefit she'll need to be plugging in every day, whereas with two BEV's she'd need to charge much less often. This isn't an argument against getting the PHEV, it's a suggestion that you are more likely to need two charge points if one of them is a PHEV.

the other side is that PHEV dont tend to charge that much faster on a proper charger, so if there was an available outdoor plug it would service that fine id have thought.

the_amazing_raisin

Cyrus wrote: »

the other side is that PHEV dont tend to charge that much faster on a proper charger, so if there was an available outdoor plug it would service that fine id have thought.

Looks like the Cayenne PHEV is unusual in that it's got an (optional) 7kW AC charger. Takes about 2 hours from an EV charger and 6 hours from the plug. So charging overnight from an outdoor socket is still feasible. Puts the battery at around 14-15kWh



If going down the route of 2 chargers, you'll want to get ones that have load management capability. The EO Mini can do this with the added ALM module, you'll need to budget for a Cat5 cable from the ALM to the chargers as well in this case


The Zappi can also do load management between 2 Zappis without any extra cabling. If you want an outdoor socket on the same circuit you'll need an extra CT clamp wired to 1 of the Zappis. You'd also want to wire a CT clamp to the ESB meter (or use a Harvi module) to prevent the house being overloaded



This will bring the price up quite a bit, but you can put in the cabling for a second charger now if you want and decide later whether to buy a second charger. The cabling is the expensive bit, wiring the charger to existing cables is easy enough

Gael23

Is the Zappi the only one that reduces the power to your charger during high loads on the house rather than shuts off completely?