Ionity charging network

JohnnyJohnJohns

patsryan wrote: »

Application lodged for J14 M7 also.


http://webgeo.kildarecoco.ie/public/planningsearch/171#

I can understand that junction 14 serves both Cork and Limerick to Dublin but it seems like a terrible location for one of these. Ohh well, can't see myself ever using it!

Shefwedfan

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I'd like to think that people wouldn't hang around unnecessarily just to get their money's worth from an €8 connection charge, but one thing I've learned as an EV owner is to never underestimate the stinginess of other EV owners...

Remember this is VW, BMW etc drivers....


Not those riff raff that drive Leaf's and stay plugged in all day trying to get every last watts in :P:P:P:P:P:P

unkel

ei9go wrote: »

With no Leafs, it will be fine for years.

Exactly. No probems at all until other CCS cars are going to sell in big numbers. We're talking 2021 here or later.

And the good thing about Ionity here is that they are not necessarily trying to make the most money out of this network. Maybe they will in 10 years time, but for now we're good. The supercheap introductory price is an indication of this.

Charging a 64kWh Kona up at Fastned (Netherlands), costs the guts of EUR40. Ionity could have easily charged that here.

ewj1978

So where have the applied for so far?
Cashel, J14, Meath.
Any on the M1?

As for the €8, Imagine you show up with 50%. Pay €8, Feck off after 30 minutes. Happy days for ionnity.
These chargers are exactly whats needed.
The €8 charge will stop the local yokels coming over from 2 miles away and hogging them.

unkel

ewj1978 wrote: »

As for the €8, Imagine you show up with 50%. Pay €8, Feck off after 30 minutes. Happy days for ionnity.

50%-90% in Ioniq on Ionity takes a bit over 10 minutes
20%-80% takes less than 15 minutes

See posts #202 and #204 for the other locations that have applied for planning permission.

ewj1978

Oops, thought the Meath application was for M3. (geography, DOH!)

Take for example, If I(When I ) drive to Belfast from east Cork in a 64kw Kona. Its 247km from mine to that Ionnity at city North. I'd arrive with probably 30% battery left. Sit there for 20mins to get above 80% and bugger off.

Quids in for Ionnity. Smart buggers.

McGiver

unkel wrote:

50%-90% in Ioniq on Ionity takes a bit over 10 minutes 20%-80% takes less than 15 minutes

How come? What kW input does the car cap the charging at?

ELM327

McGiver wrote: »

How come? What kW input does the car cap the charging at?

70kW on the Ioniq is the limit.
Same as for Kona but the Kona has much more aggressive tapering.
The Ioniq is still charging at ~70kW at 77-80% SOC.

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

70kW on the Ioniq is the limit.
Same as for Kona but the Kona has much more aggressive tapering.
The Ioniq is still charging at ~70kW at 77-80% SOC.

Bjorn has shown that the Niro charges higher for longer, but I think it was only a 50kw charger he was at. Stayed at 44kw up to near 75% whereas the Kona slowed down before 70%.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

70kW on the Ioniq is the limit.

That was from Nyland's video on slightly outdated 100kW chargers almost 2 years ago

I've seen 70kW as average all the way to the cut off point at 94% on the new ABB 175kW/350kW chargers that Fastned have :cool:

24.79kWh delivered / (21:16/60:00) = 70kW



Possibly about 80% average up to 80%

I believe Ionity is installing the same chargers?

liamog

Can't wait for these to be installed so I can log some actually data!

unkel

I'm thinking of driving to Cashel and back (>300km round trip) just to test it out

KCross

unkel wrote: »

That was from Nyland's video on slightly outdated 100kW chargers almost 2 years ago

I've seen 70kW as average all the way to the cut off point at 94% on the new ABB 175kW/350kW chargers that Fastned have :cool:

24.79kWh delivered / (21:16/60:00) = 70kW



Possibly about 80% average up to 80%

I believe Ionity is installing the same chargers?

I'm generally suspicious of screenshots of the rapid screen as we know that some of them read BS and you also dont know if the kWh "delivered" is what the car is getting or what the charger is pulling from the grid (i.e. before/after efficiency losses).

Bjorn's time lapse video showing the car SOC is what you need (it showed the Ioniq averaging 62kW's I think and peaked at 69kW) or some way of knowing/validating that the rapid readout is accurate.

I very much doubt the Ioniq can/would exceed its own spec of 70kW max which is what you are suggesting it is doing if it averaged 70kW upto 94%

unkel

Agreed, we'll have to see. We all know the midway charging our Ioniqs at 68kW doesn't seem to be true and I experienced my local FCP reporting 54kW, with its fans louder than ever before. It was hot, the high figure was just a representation of inefficient charging (with no more going into my car than at the 51-52kW the Efacec chargers normally report)

And tbh I don't really care if the car does 20-80% in 14 or 16 minutes

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I'm generally suspicious of screenshots of the rapid screen as we know that some of them read BS and you also dont know if the kWh "delivered" is what the car is getting or what the charger is pulling from the grid (i.e. before/after efficiency losses).

Bjorn's time lapse video showing the car SOC is what you need (it showed the Ioniq averaging 62kW's I think and peaked at 69kW) or some way of knowing/validating that the rapid readout is accurate.

Agreed. We've all seen the impact of the Midway, Naas etc chargers here reading wrongly.

KCross wrote: »

I very much doubt the Ioniq can/would exceed its own spec of 70kW max which is what you are suggesting it is doing if it averaged 70kW upto 94%

I've theorised for a while, based in part on Bjorn's assumption and timelapse videos that the Ioniq could charge at 70kW for longer than just peaking at 70kW around 77% SOC, as it was limited by the amps provided by the charger as well as the car's limit and the battery voltage at different points of the charge spectrum. I know that each different charger (even between the same model of efacec at different locations running different software) gives a different curve in Ireland as it is now.



The true answer is we don't know if it can sustain 70kW average unless we can test it at one of the newer Ionity stations

Orebro

unkel wrote: »

50%-90% in Ioniq on Ionity takes a bit over 10 minutes
20%-80% takes less than 15 minutes

See posts #202 and #204 for the other locations that have applied for planning permission.

Seriously? Man I'm beginning to feel last century in my L24 :-) Thankfully I do all my charging at home, but keeping all this in mind when the ICE in the house needs to be changed.

bp_me

patsryan wrote: »

Meath planning application at Circle K City North, Gormanstown has been lodged.

http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/AA180979/0

No drawings or documents yet!

patsryan wrote: »

Application lodged for J14 M7 also.


http://webgeo.kildarecoco.ie/public/planningsearch/171#

Planning file number 181055. Also no documents yet.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

I've theorised for a while, based in part on Bjorn's assumption and timelapse videos that the Ioniq could charge at 70kW for longer than just peaking at 70kW around 77% SOC, as it was limited by the amps provided by the charger as well as the car's limit and the battery voltage at different points of the charge spectrum. I know that each different charger (even between the same model of efacec at different locations running different software) gives a different curve in Ireland as it is now.



The true answer is we don't know if it can sustain 70kW average unless we can test it at one of the newer Ionity stations

Ultimately its the car that decides what it wants to receive. The variables are the pack voltage at that point in the charge (max ~400V on Ioniq, I believe?) and the max current Hyundai have programmed into their BMS.... which I believe is about 175A.

As long as the rapid is capable of providing in excess of 175A it doesn't matter if its a 100kW charger or a 350kW charger all you are going to get is the 175A that the car is programmed to max out at hence why you only get 70kW towards the end and not from the very start.

Fastned did a test on the Ioniq on their 175kW chargers and got similar results to Bjorn's test (on 100kW charger) where it slowly creeped upto 70kW as the pack voltage increased and then dramatically drops. Still impressive relative to Leaf!

EDIT: Fastned report: https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/223715447

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Ultimately its the car that decides what it wants to receive. The variables are the pack voltage at that point in the charge (max ~400V on Ioniq, I believe?) and the max current Hyundai have programmed into their BMS.... which I believe is about 175A.

As long as the rapid is capable of providing in excess of 175A it doesn't matter if its a 100kW charger or a 350kW charger all you are going to get is the 175A that the car is programmed to max out at hence why you only get 70kW towards the end and not from the very start.

Fastned did a test on the Ioniq on their 175kW chargers and got similar results to Bjorn's test (on 100kW charger) where it slowly creeped upto 70kW as the pack voltage increased and then dramatically drops. Still impressive relative to Leaf!

It is impressive in terms of C rates for sure. So we are therefore theorising that the photo provided by unkle earlier is wrong, similar to Naas/midway efacec chargers? (I understand the car limits to 175a and the battery voltage, so 175a*Xv gives kW)

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It is impressive in terms of C rates for sure. So we are therefore theorising that the photo provided by unkle earlier is wrong, similar to Naas/midway efacec chargers? (I understand the car limits to 175a and the battery voltage, so 175a*Xv gives kW)

Seems likely to me.

I think Bjorn's time lapse, Fastned's report and Hyundai's published spec's are more believable than a still screenshot of a rapid.

We are only talking a few kW in the difference anyway so it doesn't really matter. I think its generally accepted the Ioniq can charge upto 70kW.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Seems likely to me.

I think Bjorn's time lapse, Fastned's report and Hyundai's published spec's are more believable than a still screenshot of a rapid.

We are only talking a few kW in the difference anyway so it doesn't really matter. I think its generally accepted the Ioniq can charge upto 70kW.

The nomenclature for chargers needs to change. I'm much prefer Fortum's method of listing volts and amps. A "standard" CCS charger is listed as 500V 125A instead of 62.5kW.



I'm not interested in the charger being capable of 62.5kW, I'm interested in it being capable of 125A. That way I know I'll get approx 50kW when charging an Ioniq.

Dardania

liamog wrote: »

KCross wrote: »

Seems likely to me.

I think Bjorn's time lapse, Fastned's report and Hyundai's published spec's are more believable than a still screenshot of a rapid.

We are only talking a few kW in the difference anyway so it doesn't really matter. I think its generally accepted the Ioniq can charge upto 70kW.

The nomenclature for chargers needs to change. I'm much prefer Fortum's method of listing volts and amps. A "standard" CCS charger is listed as 500V 125A instead of 62.5kW.



I'm not interested in the charger being capable of 62.5kW, I'm interested in it being capable of 125A. That way I know I'll get approx 50kW when charging an Ioniq.

I think you're proposing a workaround to a problem - the actual solution is to standardise the voltage (and so, continue using kW nomenclature) - kW makes more sense to people as they can convert into kWh and compare against their battery capacity, and calculate costs.

The average punter isn't going to know that P = V * I .  And so, you would just confuse them by this talk of Amperage

liamog

Dardania wrote: »

I think you're proposing a workaround to a problem - the actual solution is to standardise the voltage (and so, continue using kW nomenclature) - kW makes more sense to people as they can convert into kWh and compare against their battery capacity, and calculate costs.

The average punter isn't going to know that P = V * I . And so, you would just confuse them by this talk of Amperage

The average punter is just going to plug in and charge for however long there car needs and not think about. An educated person will choose the correct charger for the job. No point hiding information, many people put €30 of petrol in their car, they don't really pay attention to how many litres that is.

DrPhilG

Bjorn Nyland just posted pictures of the Niro charging on a 200kw charger in Korea, still limits to 70kw.

Comments online suggest that this is a limitation of the CCS 1 chargers.

This going to be the same on the Ionity chargers?

His pictures shows a 54m estimate from 3% to 80%.

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

Bjorn Nyland just posted pictures of the Niro charging on a 200kw charger in Korea, still limits to 70kw.

Comments online suggest that this is a limitation of the CCS 1 chargers.

This going to be the same on the Ionity chargers?

His pictures shows a 54m estimate from 3% to 80%.

CCS1 - is that CCS standard 1 or CCS type 1?
There is no limitation on either CCS1 to 70kW anyway, so I would doubt the knowledge of those espousing otherwise.

Orebro

DrPhilG wrote: »

Bjorn Nyland just posted pictures of the Niro charging on a 200kw charger in Korea, still limits to 70kw.

Comments online suggest that this is a limitation of the CCS 1 chargers.

This going to be the same on the Ionity chargers?

His pictures shows a 54m estimate from 3% to 80%.

These new high capacity EVs are going to cause murderous queues on the public system as long as they are free to use.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

CCS1 - is that CCS standard 1 or CCS type 1?
There is no limitation on either CCS1 to 70kW anyway, so I would doubt the knowledge of those espousing otherwise.

The uncooled CCS connector is limited to 200A. If the battery voltage is 400V then the limit is 80kW.

Here's some info from Pheonix Contact who make the CCS connectors.
The actively cooled connectors are capable of up to 500A 1000V, whilst being fully compatible with CCS.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

The uncooled CCS connector is limited to 200A. If the battery voltage is 400V then the limit is 80kW.

Here's some info from Pheonix Contact who make the CCS connectors.
The actively cooled connectors are capable of up to 500A 1000V, whilst being fully compatible with CCS.

The car is going to be the limiting factor for a while yet.

I think VAG (Porsche in particular) are the only ones using 800V and you cant simply up the amperage to the car and stay on 400V... more amps means more heat, heavier cables, less efficiency etc.... thats why Porsche have gone with 800V to keep the amps down.

I presume Porsche will pass its 800V tech to Audi and then VW ID in the medium term.

Dont expect to rock up to an Ionity charger in the short term and get 150kW from it unless you've won the lotto!

unkel

liamog wrote: »

The uncooled CCS connector is limited to 200A. If the battery voltage is 400V then the limit is 80kW.

Here's some info from Pheonix Contact who make the CCS connectors.
The actively cooled connectors are capable of up to 500A 1000V, whilst being fully compatible with CCS.

500kW CCS :cool:

Dardania

A bit OT but: Some of this tech to deliver such high power densities over cables, where weight is a factor, will be great to adapt to the aviation industry as they turn to electric power.
Although, to be fair, long haul jets are up and around ~100MW for an engine so it may be a while yet before they can be electric!