Ionity charging network

Water John

Ionnity at Cashel and Mayfield Junction 14 ye are saying? That should be enough on the Cork/Dublin Rd, unless the number of chargers is inadequate.

unkel

Water John wrote: »

unless the number of chargers is inadequate.

All Ionity charging stations have a minimum of 6 chargers that can all be used at the same time

Not just the one, like the ESB has :rolleyes:

Water John

I am aware of the bank of chargers in each location. Just as the battery supply is choking the production of EVs neither do I want the accessibility of chargers to be a limiting factor to the changeover.
With the size of the country, we are ideal to move rapidly to EVs.

unkel

Any country is ideal to move rapidly to EVs. Even China

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see (if this is published I suppose) the uptake on the €8 charging sessions in the Ionity chargers. I mean if I was going on that route I'd use it but if I pulled in and the ecars one was available I'd obviously charge there instead

unkel wrote: »

I was just thinking the same!

Just playing devils advocate.... You'd block up the 50kW ChaDeMo charger while 6 available 175kW CCS chargers are available across the car park?!

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Just playing devils advocate.... You'd block up the 50kW ChaDeMo charger while 6 available 175kW CCS chargers are available across the car park?!

I'd use the 50kW DC charger which is available to all users, yes.
Assuming it's cheaper for me to use (or free as it is now).

Would you expect me to pay €8 in case someone else needs to charge for free??

The ioniq only charges at 70kW on the 175kW so it's not a big difference 50kW - 70kW.

Zenith74

KCross wrote: »

You'd block up the 50kW ChaDeMo charger while 6 available 175kW CCS chargers are available across the car park?!

Hardly a question that needs answering, given how many chargers we already seeblocked by people who can just as easily charge at home. Fortunately as ESB are bringing in charging, this should be a short lived issue.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Just playing devils advocate.... You'd charge for free while 6 available 175kW CCS chargers are €8

FYP, and yes. I would.

Im all for fair and civil behaviour, like not abandoning for hours, not charging longer than you need to etc but I draw the line at coughing up €8 when there is a free charger right beside it.

Moot point most likely though, as eCars will probably be charging more for a fast charge anyway by the time Ionity are up and running.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd use the 50kW DC charger which is available to all users, yes.
Assuming it's cheaper for me to use (or free as it is now).

Would you expect me to pay €8 in case someone else needs to charge for free??

The ioniq only charges at 70kW on the 175kW so it's not a big difference 50kW - 70kW.

Its just a dirty dig at the two of you!

We get alot of complaints here, both of you included, about people clogging up rapids with PHEV's and local users etc and how we want charging for charging etc. What you suggested is much the same really. You'd deny a Leaf the opportunity to charge to get on with his/her journey eventhough you have a bank of available faster chargers right next to you dedicated to your CCS car..... its selfish, which is the root of the infrastructures current problems.

Would I do the same myself.... I might. Although I think the extra speed of the 175kW chargers (43kW vs 70kW) would be worth the €8 and if a Leaf pulled up I would move.... more out of embarassment than anything else tbh.

For instance unkel.... your recent, justifiable rant, about the 40kWh Leaf driver who stayed connected for 2hrs blocking you... they were selfish. If you block a ChaDeMo charger and force them to queue behind you how is it any different?

The only difference really is that you dont want to spend the €8... like the locals who dont want to use their home electricity... its not that much different.

In any case, by the time Ionity is up and running we will likely have charging for charging on the eCars network as well so it will probably be a moot point.

ELM327

It's like saying a Tesla owner can't use a chademo point because they have paid supercharging around the corner.
Currently as it stands there's no obligation to do that, and the ecars units are free so why wouldn't they - as a BEV that is capable of taking the max speed from the charger - use the public resource?

KCross

I am making the comments somewhat tongue in cheek so I wont draw it out and derail the thread.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

For instance unkel.... your recent, justifiable rant, about the 40kWh Leaf driver who stayed connected for 2hrs blocking you... they were selfish.

No they were not, you must have misunderstood me. I did not need a charge to get home, I just thought I might as well get one since I had to be there for a bit of time anyway

What didn't bother me was that I didn't get a charge. What did bother me was that this gobsh1te imbecile prick in his 181D36303 was charging for hours on end and was nowhere to be seen. Anyone in need of a charge (not me) would have been stuck. That bothered me!

As of your suggestion about Junction 14: I would charge at the free charger. But if a Leaf queued up behind me and approached me saying they were stuck / needed to go somewhere quickly, I would have no problem in cutting my charge short and letting him charge

Silent Running

unkel wrote: »

No they were not, you must have misunderstood me. I did not need a charge to get home, I just thought I might as well get one since I had to be there for a bit of time anyway

What didn't bother me was that I didn't get a charge. What did bother me was that this gobsh1te imbecile prick in his 181D36303 was charging for hours on end and was nowhere to be seen. Anyone in need of a charge (not me) would have been stuck. That bothered me!

As of your suggestion about Junction 14: I would charge at the free charger. But if a Leaf queued up behind me and approached me saying they were stuck / needed to go somewhere quickly, I would have no problem in cutting my charge short and letting him charge

With the speed the Ioniq charges, I don't see the need. You'd be clear of the charger in less than 30 minutes anyway. If you were going to be blocking it for hours, that would be a different matter.

liamog

Silent Running wrote: »

With the speed the Ioniq charges, I don't see the need. You'd be clear of the charger in less than 30 minutes anyway. If you were going to be blocking it for hours, that would be a different matter.

Maybe the example would be better away from J14, from there to Dublin is only around 60km, if I needed the charge it would be 10mins on the eCars, 7.2mins from Ionity. charger so def wouldn't bother with the pay €8 on the way home.

McGiver

Water John wrote: »

I am aware of the bank of chargers in each location. Just as the battery supply is choking the production of EVs neither do I want the accessibility of chargers to be a limiting factor to the changeover.
With the size of the country, we are ideal to move rapidly to EVs.

Size yes, absolutely. But I don't think the right mindset is there. That's more important than the size of the country - see Norway (and even the UK).

peposhi

Zenith74 wrote: »

Curious how you found this bit out, was it announced recently or something? Also curious if there's some deal that ESB will be putting in some at the same time as Ionity, or is this pure coincidence?

Cheers!

I was not aware of the ESB plans until recently when it was pointed out to me. I double checked with the relevant people and I was very happy to hear that yes it is planned to happen - 6 Ionity + 2 ESB FCPs...

KCross

Ioniq was at 37% and its taking 180A which is ~66kW.
I presume thats at the charger so maybe take 5% off that for heat loss.

Skip to 2:14

Only supporting CCS1 initially.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Ioniq was at 37% and its taking 180A which is ~66kW.
I presume thats at the charger so maybe take 5% off that for heat loss.

His point re CCS2.0 cables is interesting. Seems the liquid cooled >200A cables are basically unavailable at the moment.

KCross

Either unavailable or just too expensive and they see no point in putting them in right now since no car can utilise them.

They might just wait for the price to drop and install them when it makes sense.

ELM327

66kW is pretty close to max for 37% SOC. It reaches max speed of 70kW around 77% SOC.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Ioniq was at 37% and its taking 180A which is ~66kW.

20%-80% in 15 minutes

Looking forward to trying the first Ionity chargers in Ireland. Hopefully within the next few months.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

20%-80% in 15 minutes

Looking forward to trying the first Ionity chargers in Ireland. Hopefully within the next few months.

About 120km motorway range in 15 mins

Pretty impressive for a 25k car

Tesla Model 3 is supposedly going to be charging at 160kW when supercharger V3 comes out in the summer

With the same motorway efficiency of the Ioniq thats 300km motorway range in 15 mins

I don't think i would ever need more than that

DrPhilG

Mike9832 wrote: »

I don't think i would ever need more than that

But still there will be a long of people claiming that EVs are useless until they can add 500km in 3 minutes.

KCross

This initial lack of CCS2 support has got me thinking.... when eCars and Ionity talk about 150/175kW charging are they really only talking about each pair of chargers being able to charge at a rate of 150kW combined (i.e. 200A each)?

Basically, if Ionity is deploying CCS1 only, for now, it means the max you can get is about 80kW per charger. Its a welcome improvement but its not exactly the 350kW they keep advertising.

Have there been any examples of 175kW Ionity chargers actually delivering more than 80kW to a car or is this CCS1 only support going to be it for the first few years? Or was this Norway one just a bad example and not whats happening across the rest of the network?

Soarer

DrPhilG wrote: »

But still there will be a long of people claiming that EVs are useless until they can add 500km in 3 minutes.

Well, leave them off filling up at €80 a go.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

This initial lack of CCS2 support has got me thinking.... when eCars and Ionity talk about 150/175kW charging are they really only talking about each pair of chargers being able to charge at a rate of 150kW combined (i.e. 200A each)?

Basically, if Ionity is deploying CCS1 only, for now, it means the max you can get is about 80kW per charger. Its a welcome improvement but its not exactly the 350kW they keep advertising.

Have there been any examples of 175kW Ionity chargers actually delivering more than 80kW to a car or is this CCS1 only support going to be it for the first few years? Or was this Norway one just a bad example and not whats happening across the rest of the network?

Didn't Bjorn test it with the IPace and only got ~80kW
Seems like it's 80kW max for now.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Basically, if Ionity is deploying CCS1 only, for now, it means the max you can get is about 80kW per charger.

Depends on the car. In your video, you can see the spec of the charger. It delivers 200-920V. So limited to just 200A (CCS1):

Ioniq, with a 360V pack, it means a max of 72kW. i-Pace with a 390V pack it means 78kw. But a Taycan has a pack voltage of 800V, so can charge at 160kW

And the max the charger can do is 920 * 200 = 184kW with CCS1 and 920 * 500 = 460kW with CCS2 :cool:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Depends on the car. In your video, you can see the spec of the charger. It delivers 200-920V. So limited to just 200A (CCS1):

Ioniq, with a 360V pack, it means a max of 72kW. i-Pace with a 390V pack it means 78kw. But a Taycan has a pack voltage of 800V, so can charge at 160kW

And the max the charger can do is 920 * 200 = 184kW with CCS1 and 920 * 500 = 460kW with CCS2 :cool:

True. So, when they talk about 175kW they are really only referring to a Taycan as thats the only car that has an 800V pack.

The reality is that 99.999% of people will "only" be able to access less than half that.

Hopefully the 800V platform in the Taycan will filter down into the rest of the VAG machines over the coming years. I presume the VW MEB platform is 400V only so 80kW is where its going to be at for some time.
i.e. They cant just pump more current into a 400V pack, the heat loss would be too high and too expensive to engineer in.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I presume the VW MEB platform is 400V only so 80kW is where its going to be at for some time.

A quick google didn't show me the pack voltage, but on a VW site it did state MEB can charge at 125kW

KCross

unkel wrote: »

A quick google didn't show me the pack voltage, but on a VW site it did state MEB can charge at 125kW

Must be more than 400V so.

I think for the larger packs, like iPace, they are closer to 450V than 400V so maybe a combination of higher nominal voltages and higher current with beefed up active cooling would get it to 125kW.

800V is where it needs to go for the real high speeds though.

It would be interesting to see where Tesla take it. They are stuck on 120kW for a while now and Musk seems to have quietened down about 350kW.... talking about <200kW for the future.


I suppose, realistically, the majority dont need more than 125kW. Its only high end, high consumption super cars really need it because they will be burning through it.