Ionity charging network

unkel wrote: »

Ah hour? I was thinking 5 minutes max

My modest 2016 model Ioniq would need only 15 minutes before the end of this year on the first Ionity charger to charge up from 20-80%. Surely there will be plenty of progress on this over the next 20 years...

I know you have high hopes for the 5 min charge time and I'm sure it will happen but when is anybody's guess really. Solid state batteries hold the most hope and should be with us in the next few years (Dyson being one that has invested heavily in solid state and says 2020 for their EV although I think they have rolled back on their first EV being solid state.... they will be using Li-ion I think they said now). What charge rates will solid state accept? I dont know.

Your 15 min charge time for the Ioniq isn't a good example though in the context of an urban rapid. If you have 100% EV adoption and you need a weekly charge (because you dont have a home charger) you wont be adding a measly 25kWh's (i.e. your Ioniq). You will probably be adding 50-100kWh's. Try getting that into a battery in 5mins without requiring a cable that takes a forklift to pick it up!

I know we have 350kW chargers coming but they will be load shared like Tesla so you might not get 350kW when you plug in. With full access to 350kW it would give you 88kWh's in 15 mins. If its load shared you are looking at 30mins. And thats assuming you have a car that can take 350kW's in the first place.... that will be for Porsche's and €100k cars for a LONG time yet.

Do you think/expect in 20yrs time that a <€30k EV will be able to charge at 350kW? Maybe it will. I'm thinking not unless solid state batteries (or some other tech) really over delivers on its promise.

So, maybe I'm a bit high at 1hr but I think you are a bit low at 5 mins!
It is of course a YMMV situation as alot of cars wont need even 30kWh, not to mind double that each week.

samih wrote: »

The charger spaces are the car park, right. You would be able to fit plenty of them at a typical MSA. No need to vent fumes or worry about fuel spills.

I think you missed the context of my comment. The MSA's will be fine. Plenty space there and of course there will be plenty ultra speed chargers installed there as they will make financial sense and it enables long journeys (which is the core idea of an ultra charger).

Its the "urban chargers" that my comments refer to.

Zenith74 wrote: »

It’s interesting to think about how it may be in 20 years alright, particularly in the Irish context where you can only drive so far anyway.

If battery capacities keep going up and prices going down, you could see a time where ‘regular’ cars come with a 150kwh battery, at which point you’d presumably see the vast majority of charging done at home and the need for en-route chargers dropping away. Or maybe the demand for destination chargers would drop away.

Or alternatively if battery capacities keep going will you find that cars come with various sized batteries and you pay a premium for the bigger ones, kinda like you do for a bigger engine or more horsepower. So will there be a Leaf with a 50kwh and 100kwh option, meaning en-route chargers are still required.

Hard to say if destination or fast chargers en-route will win out, but doesn’t seem like both are going to be needed in the much longer term?

Absolutely this.
The battery is one of the more expensive parts of an EV and its unlikely to keep reducing in cost every year for the next 20 years.... there is only so much cost reduction you can achieve in this case, it will plateau.

That will force the manufacturers to offer different capacities, as you said... 1L petrol for tootling around town and a 2.0D for the motorway runs.... same concept.

The final picture will have to be a mixture of solutions.....
- various capacity batteries for each model
- combination of home charging, destination charging, charging parks, MSA's

Zenith74 wrote: »

Yeah I think that’s the most likely.

Destination charging I still wonder about though. At the moment you have the ESB/Tesla paying for the chargers and there’s a bit of a gimmick factor that is encouraging the likes of Lidl to put them in and give the electricity free. But longer term, assuming batteries do plateau in around the 50-60kwh for your average car, and fast charging tops out somewhere around 300-500kw, is there going to be enough demand for people to install destination chargers, when they’re no longer ‘special and interesting’? In the same way Lidl wouldn’t stick a petrol pump outside their stores today for the one in a thousand person who might use it. Seems destination charging has a questionable enough future to me, in the long term?

The only reason for restaurants/shopping malls/cinema's etc to have a rapid is to attract customers. Long term probably not going to be "a thing" as you say.

liamog wrote: »

It's not unusual to see a supermarket with a petrol station, where a fuel discount is granted when spending over x in store.

I could see why a Tesco would want to install a bank of DC chargers in their car park and provide the charge at almost cost price.
It gives you a strong incentive to attend their store.

I can see why they they will charge us for charging and turn that into a new profit line.

Any updates on planning permissions?
Has any work actually started?

They probably won't be fast chargers, but for people tracking the expanding EV charging network, you might be interested to know that Super Valu signed a contract yesterday to install EV chargers!

I wonder will they have them open (on a paid basis?) when the shop is closed over night.

That would be a great addition to the national network!

BigAl81 wrote: »

...you might be interested to know that Super Valu signed a contract yesterday to install EV chargers!

I wonder will they have them open (on a paid basis?) when the shop is closed over night.

That would be a great addition to the national network!

Have you any links on that? Is that nationwide? Is it slow or fast chargers etc?

Some of the stores are franchise owned so I'm interested in what the approach from head office is, as they cant really force the owners hands.


I've poked Musgrave's a few times to encourage charge points in their shops and they deferrred to their sustainability team and it died there.

I poked them again a few weeks ago when Lidl announced their charge point deployment plans and told them they were falling behind their competition. Maybe they're listening!

KCross wrote: »

Have you any links on that? Is that nationwide? Is it slow or fast chargers etc?

Some of the stores are franchise owned so I'm interested in what the approach from head office is, as they cant really force the owners hands.


I've poked Musgrave's a few times to encourage charge points in their shops and they deferrred to their sustainability team and it died there.

I poked them again a few weeks ago when Lidl announced their charge point deployment plans and told them they were falling behind their competition. Maybe they're listening!

I know both Supervalu in Fermoy and Kinsale already have charging stations operated by the ESB/Ecars so maybe they are expanding out to other branches!

BigAl81 wrote: »

Hi, no link or more info I'm afraid, I just happened to be talking to a car charger install complay and they mentioned they had just won a contract with Super Valu just the day before.

ok, thats probably just one SuperValu then rather than a full store nationwide rollout.

unkel wrote: »

It looks like several new Ionity chargers a week have been opening for the last month or so in the likes of Germany, Austria and France. Let them come here soon!

Any news of updates on planning permission or any site activities spotted of Irish Ionity chargers, please share it here!

Junction14 planning approved. 6 stalls going in + 2 ESB FCPs.
Truck parking extension was meant to start end of this month. I guess they might start working on the chargers soon. Will update you once I know more.

eCars did say this in their last newsletter..
Not sure if that is the same as what peposhi is referring to or if there are two additional ones.