Joking has escalated - Read Mod warning in post 1

Dylann

Hi, im a quiet person who in the office keeps to myself and trys to stay out of most things. On Friday when talking to my supervisor another employee who is the mouth of the office walked past me and said " hurry up baldy, I want to talk to him" about 5 other people heard this and there was a giggle or two and my response was I may be bald but you will always be ugly. The woman I said this to then walked away almost crying, I walked away too, I was so annoyed and I was annoyed with myself for reacting. My supervisor later came over to my desk and told me to apologise for what I said and that there will have to be a meeting on Monday about my reaction . I feel hard done by here, this wouldn't of happened if it wasn't for the other employee trying to make a show of me. What should I do next? I've never been in trouble in work before and im dreading Monday now.

Mod:

The next person(s) trying to turn this into a thread about feminism will get a permanent forum ban. Help the OP or don't bother to post.

ForestFire

Dylann wrote: »

Hi, im a quiet person who in the office keeps to myself and trys to stay out of most things. On Friday when talking to my supervisor another employee who is the mouth of the office walked past me and said " hurry up baldy, I want to talk to him" about 5 other people heard this and there was a giggle or two and my response was I may be bald but you will always be ugly. The woman I said this to then walked away almost crying, I walked away too, I was so annoyed and I was annoyed with myself for reacting. My supervisor later came over to my desk and told me to apologise for what I said and that there will have to be a meeting on Monday about my reaction . I feel hard done by here, this wouldn't of happened if it wasn't for the other employee trying to make a show of me. What should I do next? I've never been in trouble in work before and im dreading Monday now.

I hope youbwill get some good advice before Monday, all I can say is you need to make it crystal clear that

she was the first to insult you and it was about a physical condition about your body.

While you probable should not have retaliated, your insult was about your perception of her looks and not a physical condition.

Also you say this has escalated, have previous insults been from both sides or is this the first time you retaliated.

Note down as many of the previous insults as you can.

Dev84

ForestFire wrote: »

I hope youbwill get some good advice before Monday, all I can say is you need to make it crystal clear that

she was the first to insult you and it was about a physical condition about your body.

While you probable should not have retaliated, your insult was about your perception of her looks and not a physical condition.

Plus one on this. Fight fire with fire. She shouldnt give it if she cant take it.

pauliebdub

You shouldn't have retaliated, I would have reported her initial comment to your manager and left it at that. You're now on the back foot because of the retaliation, it's a lesson learned, she was probably trying to bait you.

randomgar

A right bloody dose.

Push for the physical condition and you are very sensitive about it.

Bald is a physical thing while "ugly" is subjective too.

the_pen_turner

hope you have reported her
how about taking a few days off for stress leave

Tell me how

Do what ForestFire suggested.

Especially, if you can, get advice from a person with HR knowledge.
Document all related events you can remember in a chronological list.
Keep a file of that and any future communications relating to this including meetings such as that on. Monday.
Try to read the employee handbook relating to disciplinary proceedings if it's available to you.

Be ready to answer if you are asked to apologize. You may be willing to or you'll do so if she apologizes for her role in the matter or you might not want to at all.

On Monday, try not to be overly defensive or aggressive, but be clear about your position. Do not discuss it with anyone in the workplace before the meeting if you can avoid it. Make sure you are told if it is a disciplinary matter and if any reference to this will be added to your personal file.

I think you'll be fine, you were provoked somewhat and reacted, it wasn't premeditated. I would hope Monday will be a clear the air from both sides with the ask that ye both put it in the past and carry on doing your duties.

kerrylad1

the_pen_turner wrote: »

hope you have reported her
how about taking a few days off for stress leave

You took her bait.lesson learnt

Doctors room ghost

Get yourself down the jokeshop tomorrow and get a huge big afro wig.wear it into the meeting on Monday and claim you haven’t a clue what’s going on.when they discuss what happened deny everything.
Say why would she call me baldy when I have this huge head of curls going.throw a bit of Jamaican accent in just to throw them a bit.then hit on the bird saying she is gorgeous.they will be so confused they will be apologizing to you for wasting your time.and trust me I’m a doctor.

khaldrogo

This is just another example of the PC culture coupled with 5th wave feminism.

jimmycrackcorm

Just stick to the narrative that you only reacted to her insulting comment. You weren't the instigator of this and felt compelled to defend yourself because of her attack on your physical appearance. This wouldn't have happened if you hadn't been mocked in front of your colleagues.

Insist that it was a purely defensive comment and ask why are management allowing a situation where employees have to defend themselves from offensive comments. If they want to find some punishment then it should be much harsher for the instigator.

Atlantic Dawn

People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones, you did perfect in your response to her, precise measured response to her starting it, fair play.

pilly

You were extremely childish in the workplace. If you want to keep the job own up to that and apologise profusely.

If you don't care about the job then obviously just do what you want.

Dave147

Farmer Tom wrote: »

The guards may get involved so no lies anyway.

How could the Guards possibly get involved in this?

Agree with OP, you were antagonised and you reacted, I see nothing wrong with what you did, some people are very sensitive to baldness, looks are subjective.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

You were extremely childish in the workplace. If you want to keep the job own up to that and apologise profusely.

If you don't care about the job then obviously just do what you want.

I presume this is sarcasm?

I would in my hole apologise. You did no wrong at all. Follow this advice:

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Just stick to the narrative that you only reacted to her insulting comment. You weren't the instigator of this and felt compelled to defend yourself because of her attack on your physical appearance. This wouldn't have happened if you hadn't been mocked in front of your colleagues.

Insist that it was a purely defensive comment and ask why are management allowing a situation where employees have to defend themselves from offensive comments. If they want to find some punishment then it should be much harsher for the instigator.

And don't deviate from it. It's workplace bullying on the instigator's end of things, don't let them re-frame the picture.

gallifreya

Is there any prior history with this person that could be relevant?

From the details it seems that the OP did the wrong thing by reacting in that way – now the actual instigator looking at victim status and the supervisor may or may not be showing bias.

OP might focus on the fact that his part only involves - as the supervisor stated – his ‘reaction’. The reaction can be defended but only to the point that it now ascribes equal blame to the initial injured party (him) who would have held the higher ground, if not for his response. A derogatory personal remark was made in front of an audience which was returned directly in kind. While the initial remark was provocative, both behaviours were unprofessional and the employer should condone neither the initial remark nor the retaliation it provoked. It seems that both the 'foul' and the 'retaliation' are balanced.

I am assuming this meeting is informal and not disciplinary in nature and that no representation has been suggested. Check this beforehand with the supervisor.

No idea how long the OP is in the job or what the governing HR policies are, but on the information presented, I’d suggest that the OP gives an unreserved apology tomorrow but only for his ‘reaction’ but that apology is conditional on a reciprocal apology from the instigator - then leave it at that if that’s going to be the end of it informally, with no notes on personnel file etc.

None of this can be classed as bullying imo at this juncture, as it seems to be centred on a one off exchange (although the use of the word ‘escalated’ needs clarification) and a meeting to try and resolve the issue. See how the meeting goes. From my experience, the less said at these meetings the better for any defence further down the line.

Rubberchikken

If she couldnt handle your comment she shouldnt have been so free with that comment to you.

And tbh what a pathetic thing then to do - start crying.
Personally i wouldnt apologise. Shes really going to have to grow up.

pilly

Deleted User wrote:

I presume this is sarcasm?

No sarcasm at all.

Ash.J.Williams

Weak enough comeback

Heckler

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Weak enough comeback

**** off ya cow would have been a whole lot better.

Comments on personal looks in a negative way have no place at work. While his come back may not have been the most original he was well within his rights to say so. **** apologising. She should be apologising to him.

Heckler

pilly wrote: »

You were extremely childish in the workplace. If you want to keep the job own up to that and apologise profusely.

If you don't care about the job then obviously just do what you want.

You gotta be kidding. You wanna bend over and take **** like that at your workplace ? No job is worth your dignity.

Del2005

the_pen_turner wrote: »

hope you have reported her
how about taking a few days off for stress leave

The OP was talking to their boss they shouldn't have to report her.

Dylann wrote: »

Hi, im a quiet person who in the office keeps to myself and trys to stay out of most things. On Friday when talking to my supervisor another employee who is the mouth of the office walked past me and said " hurry up baldy, I want to talk to him" about 5 other people heard this and there was a giggle or two and my response was I may be bald but you will always be ugly. The woman I said this to then walked away almost crying, I walked away too, I was so annoyed and I was annoyed with myself for reacting. My supervisor later came over to my desk and told me to apologise for what I said and that there will have to be a meeting on Monday about my reaction . I feel hard done by here, this wouldn't of happened if it wasn't for the other employee trying to make a show of me. What should I do next? I've never been in trouble in work before and im dreading Monday now.

If it becomes disciplinary I'd be making sure that the other person is also brought up for her comments. And I'd be asking insisting for her to apologize first as she insulted you first.

Heckler

I work in a warehouse environment with about 30 or so fellas so it doesn't lend it self to being sensitive. That said any "insult" is taken and given back in force. All in good nature. If there was any bullying or hardship caused to any one fella it would be quickly sorted without management ever knowing about it. Nobody I work with will put up with that.

qwerty13

It’s all very well saying that she started it, but it is, rightly or wrongly, relatively socially acceptable to call someone baldy. It’s not socially acceptable to call someone ugly though, and I think this is going to be a problem for you - that people giggled a bit at what she said, but people seemed shocked by what you said.

TG1

the_pen_turner wrote: »

hope you have reported her
how about taking a few days off for stress leave

There is no such thing as stress leave. It's sick leave with stress as a cause. For legitimate cases where people cannot be in work because their symptoms of stress prevent it. That attitude right there is why legitimate cases of stress are managed so harshly by a lot of companies. Because it's impossible to distinguish legitimate cases from the people that just use it as an excuse for a few days off.

OP, you made a comment about her physical appearance. There is no place for that in any workplace. She reported you, so there will be an investigation. I would be taking the higher road if I were you, don't resort to mud slinging or the likes, put your hands up, admit you did it, explain it was a reaction to the previous comment but that you realise you were wrong to say it. You'd be surprised by how much your own behaviour in the investigation will count...

Eire Go Brach

This is a bit mental. It’s you who should get the apology. If the meeting gets messy. I’d demand it. As you don’t nothing wrong apart from slagged back.

I’d also suggest buying her s gift. Maybe some makeup. (o:

RobAMerc

TG1 wrote: »

OP, you made a comment about her physical appearance. There is no place for that in any workplace. She reported you, so there will be an investigation. I would be taking the higher road if I were you, don't resort to mud slinging or the likes, put your hands up, admit you did it, explain it was a reaction to the previous comment but that you realise you were wrong to say it. You'd be surprised by how much your own behaviour in the investigation will count...

Absolutely true, but she did the mud slinging first and her comments can be graded no less grievous than the OP's.

Her crying does not indicate she was the more injured party or that his crime was the greater. It's only indicative of her maturity.

He should apologise as soon as she does and no sooner.

On another matter, the supervisor should be tearing her a new one for thinking it OK to start hurling abuse at an employee while he was involved in a conversation with their manager. It shows absolute disrespect for them both and the position held by the manager.

TG1

RobAMerc wrote: »

Absolutely true, but she did the mud slinging first and her comments can be graded no less grievous than the OP's.

Her crying does not indicate she was the more injured party or that his crime was the greater. It's only indicative of her maturity.

He should apologise as soon as she does and no sooner.

On another matter, the supervisor should be tearing her a new one for thinking it OK to start hurling abuse at an employee while he was involved in a conversation with their manager. It shows absolute disrespect for them both and the position held by the manager.

I agree in principle she shouldn't have said it either, however in terms of escaping relatively unscathed from a workplace investigation, demanding an apology and refusing to apologise first is not the way to go.

Explaining clearly and concisely what happened, admitting that they were wrong to say what they said and explaining that they have learned from this and it will not happen again is the way to go for the op.

At the time the op didn't take issue with the comment, doing so now will look like a defensive ploy to get out of the firing range and won't be looked on kindly.

In investigations where it is he said she said stuff, presenting yourself as a mature adult who is willing to apologise to keep the peace will reflect better on the op in the long run than throwing around blame.

RobAMerc

Agreed, apologising unreservedly is the way to go - ( my previous comment was written while my temper was a bit flared having read the initial post )

However, there is still neither comment more grievous than the other and it doesnt take from the fact she started abusing him while he was in conversation with the manager.

The only way her act could be considered even slightly less abusive is if his name ( or known nickname ) was in fact "baldy"

BTW - the manager should be having a think about their management "style" where this girl thought it was OK to do this.

Thestones

I feel angry on your behalf op, I'm a woman and I'd never think it's ok to refer to someone as baldy.
I think you should approach the meeting like this, apologise for what you said but be very clear that it was a reaction on your part that she insulted you, others laughed, you felt embarrassed and it was a response to that and you are angry with yourself that you responded that way. However you need to keep bringing it back the fact that had she not insulted you that you would not even be sitting there having a meeting, it's not ok for a man to insult a woman and it's equally not ok for a woman to insult a man. Everyone has sensitivities, you simply reacted in a split second because someone mocked you. Perhaps the meeting will be to bring up her behaviour also but if it's very much aimed at you I would be standing firm that she did insult you first and she should also be reprimanded equally as you. You should both apologise and move on.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

razorblunt

First reply on this thread says it all really. Follow that course of action.

backspin.

I would say you are very sensitive about your bald head and was extremely embarrassed when she made the comment. But that yes you are willing to apologize but you'd like an apology from her too.

She started with the insults but I suspect you are about to get a taste of how protected women are in the workplace. If you had called her baldy and she called you ugly in return. You'd still be the one called in on Monday morning. Hopefully your boss is fair minded though. I don't see what you said as too serious.

December2012

You post about joking escalating. Has there been any joking?

What has gone on in the past?

Wanderer2010

pilly wrote: »

You were extremely childish in the workplace. If you want to keep the job own up to that and apologise profusely.

If you don't care about the job then obviously just do what you want.

Why should he apologize for standing up for himself?

This wagon created the situation by calling the OP a very offensive name in front of others. Do you really think the best response to that is to just lie back and meekly accept it, all the while letting the resentment stew in the background.

She is a childish bully and best she be called out on it- if she cant take it she shouldn't dish it out.

splinter65

Dylann wrote: »

Hi, im a quiet person who in the office keeps to myself and trys to stay out of most things. On Friday when talking to my supervisor another employee who is the mouth of the office walked past me and said " hurry up baldy, I want to talk to him" about 5 other people heard this and there was a giggle or two and my response was I may be bald but you will always be ugly. The woman I said this to then walked away almost crying, I walked away too, I was so annoyed and I was annoyed with myself for reacting. My supervisor later came over to my desk and told me to apologise for what I said and that there will have to be a meeting on Monday about my reaction . I feel hard done by here, this wouldn't of happened if it wasn't for the other employee trying to make a show of me. What should I do next? I've never been in trouble in work before and im dreading Monday now.

My reaction would have been the same as yours so I can’t really help you.

splinter65

pilly wrote: »

You were extremely childish in the workplace. If you want to keep the job own up to that and apologise profusely.

If you don't care about the job then obviously just do what you want.

Do you think the woman who used the insult “baldy” was childish too, or in your opinion was she “only joking”?

decky1

pilly wrote: »

You were extremely childish in the workplace. If you want to keep the job own up to that and apologise profusely.

If you don't care about the job then obviously just do what you want.

what sort of response is this 'Childish' and she walks away with nothing said to her 'No Sir' he's well within his rights to reply to her the same as she said to him , if that all the company have to meet about they must be fairly busy. I think the superviser must be doing some over time with this lady.
Man you may be bald but at least you can wear a hat everyday she only has one night a year to hide her face 'Halloween':cool:

soiseztomabel

I have a shaved head since my mid 20's and the "baldy" thing seems to be the go to insult of an individual who lacks any creativity. Sadly the time we are living in will not the reaction you gave. Say sorry and next time a person talks to you like that you should shut them down immediately by asking them "do you think that's appropriate" and then if they proceed then you rip them a new arsehole and make them cry

Best of luck with the meeting

splinter65

soiseztomabel wrote: »

I have a shaved head since my mid 20's and the "baldy" thing seems to be the go to insult of an individual who lacks any creativity. Sadly the time we are living in will not the reaction you gave. Say sorry and next time a person talks to you like that you should shut them down immediately by asking them "do you think that's appropriate" and then if they proceed then you rip them a new arsehole and make them cry

Best of luck with the meeting

This is probably correct, sadly, for the times we are living in.
It kinda sums up modern feminism to me though, a woman can insult a man but if he returns the compliment she can cry and demand an apology .
All I know is, it’ll all come to a head pretty soon.

everlast75

If the OP is a genuine one, I think that reaction is more like the build up of previous encounters.

That reaction sounds like OP snapping to me.

Just a thought

decky1

I opened a door for a feminist yesterday,---- my case comes up in court next week.

Ann22

Is she unfortunate in her appearance? If I was her I'd feel worse at my boss being so defensive lol! If she's a good looking girl it was clearly a joke. I would have laughed and said something like 'hey...harsh!!!'

Nody

Mod:

The next person(s) trying to turn this into a thread about feminism will get a permanent forum ban. Help the OP or don't bother to post.

Max Prophet

It's funny how uggos try to dish it out but can't take it.

belfe

Apology, but mention indirectly her insult.

"I'm truly sorry for what I said. I lost my temper when you insulted me by calling me baldly, but I realize that it is not a justification and my conduct was completely unacceptable".

If this happens again, you can just say "you know my opinion", or directly report her to HR.

OU812

Don't apologise first, whatever you do. Tell them you will apologise to her publically once you receive a public apology from her (it happened publically, so the apology should be public also).

If they threaten disciplinary action on you, say that you are being bullied by a co-worker with management knowledge) and it's a toxic work environment (that'll put the ****s up them). Then get off to your doctor, get signed out on certified sick leave & start doing some interviews.

Jimbob1977

If you have a union representative, maybe speak to them.

Although you might share the same union rep.

Apologising first will put you in the weaker spot. It's like an admission of guilt.

belfe

OU812 wrote: »

Don't apologise first, whatever you do. Tell them you will apologise to her publically once you receive a public apology from her (it happened publically, so the apology should be public also).

If they threaten disciplinary action on you, say that you are being bullied by a co-worker with management knowledge) and it's a toxic work environment (that'll put the ****s up them). Then get off to your doctor, get signed out on certified sick leave & start doing some interviews.

I wouldn't recommend this.

With HR, starting with the argument "but she started" won't work. The best way to handle this is apologize first and then demand the apologies from the other part. If she still doesn't apology, then you can use the bullying argument, but is a path with only one possible end (you out of the company as soon as your sick leave ends).

kurtainsider

Clarify with your boss before the meeting whether it is a disciplinary meeting or an informal meeting to discuss the incident. If it's the former have a little homework done beforehand. Insist on bringing in a witness with you and take copious notes (take notes anyway).

Send out the message that you are clued up and not prepared to be railroaded.

If it's informal be ready to object to any attempt to make you the guilty party. If that tone persists end the meeting and ask that it be put on a formal basis.

Having said that I would suggest that you don't wheel out the big guns unless you have to. Least said soonest mended and all that.....

Professor Moriarty

kurtainsider wrote: »

Clarify with your boss before the meeting whether it is a disciplinary meeting or an informal meeting to discuss the incident. If it's the former have a little homework done beforehand. Insist on bringing in a witness with you and take copious notes (take notes anyway).

Send out the message that you are clued up and not prepared to be railroaded.

If it's informal be ready to object to any attempt to make you the guilty party. If that tone persists end the meeting and ask that it be put on a formal basis.

Having said that I would suggest that you don't wheel out the big guns unless you have to. Least said soonest mended and all that.....

This ^^^^ entirely and especially the piece in bold.