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Stakeknife Arrested.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    The 'nutting' squad.

    Dare I ask what was their modus operandi?

    Good god. I've met some serious criminals and violent people in my life, but never came across the idea of a nutting squad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    " One in four in IRA members were informers Smithwick Tribunal told"

    Well if that's true, which I very much doubt, you've got to wonder why the PIRA could do anything at all never mind shoot two high-ranking RUC men, kill 14 British Soldiers in the same year, kill 11 the following year, kill four UDR in 1990, bomb the London Stock Exchange and so on.

    This was written in the early 1990's when the PIRA started to focus on Britain including mortaring Downing Street, wrecking city centres and financial districts with enormous bombs:

    440358.png

    Lessons from the Northern Ireland Peace Process, p135.

    Also, shouldn't Unionists be furious with Special Branch and British intelligence for letting the PIRA carry out all these attacks and killings well into the 1990's?

    It doesn't add up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well if that's true, which I very much doubt, you've got to wonder why the PIRA could do anything at all never mind shoot two high-ranking RUC men, kill 14 British Soldiers in the same year, kill 11 the following year, kill four UDR in 1990, bomb the London Stock Exchange and so on.

    This was written in the early 1990's when the PIRA started to focus on Britain including mortaring Downing Street, wrecking city centres and financial districts with enormous bombs:

    440358.png

    Lessons from the Northern Ireland Peace Process, p135.

    Also, shouldn't Unionists be furious with Special Branch and British intelligence for letting the PIRA carry out all these attacks and killings well into the 1990's?

    It doesn't add up.
    Like some here, victims didn't matter if Unionists thought they were winning.
    But ultimately the British state will be losers as this nefarious meddling comes out.
    They are emerging as the major players in destabilizing the statlet for their own selfish motives and ends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,627 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    myshirt wrote: »
    The 'nutting' squad.

    Dare I ask what was their modus operandi?

    Good god. I've met some serious criminals and violent people in my life, but never came across the idea of a nutting squad.

    Something akin to internal affairs for the Ra.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    They are emerging as the major players in destabilizing the statlet for their own selfish motives and ends.

    They wanted to defeat the PIRA comprehensively and Unionists are fooling themselves if they think they too weren't used as pawns in the dirty war between the Provos and the British.

    If a quarter of the 25 man PIRA team that planned and carried out the assassination of the two high-ranking RUC officers were informers then it's probable that people high up the British intelligence chain-of-command allowed it to happen.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They wanted to defeat the PIRA comprehensively and Unionists are fooling themselves if they think they too weren't used as pawns in the dirty war between the Provos and the British.

    If a quarter of the 25 man PIRA team that planned and carried out the assassination of the two high-ranking RUC officers were informers then it's probable that people high up the British intelligence chain-of-command allowed it to happen.

    Lots of hard questions. Did they even turn a blind eye to the Thatcher attempt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    A read of A Secret History of the IRA by Ed Moloney is worthy of anyone’s time. You can form your own narrative as a result, but there’s insights in the book that cannot be ignored.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    They are emerging as the major players in destabilizing the statlet for their own selfish motives and ends.
    Actually I am surprised you did not know it was the Republican goal to destabilize, which they did by the "armed struggle" and associated infamous bombing campaign.
    It was not in the British governments interest to have a destabilized N.I. or Britain, it paid a huge financial, human and political cost. It was not in Irelands interest to have the troubles, with attacks on our Gardai, army etc. No country likes to be attacked by terrorists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    If a quarter of the 25 man PIRA team that planned and carried out the assassination of the two high-ranking RUC officers were informers then it's probable that people high up the British intelligence chain-of-command allowed it to happen.
    Not all of them would have known what PIRA cells were plotting / doing, or may may reported it in time due to concerns about their own safety.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Did they even turn a blind eye to the Thatcher attempt.

    I doubt it personally. The British were in the business of containing the Troubles in Ireland. I've often wondered why the Provos didn't concentrate on Britain much sooner where one bomb was worth 10,000 in the north, literally.

    440361.png


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    Actually I am surprised you did not know it was the Republican goal to destabilize, which they did by the "armed struggle" and associated infamous bombing campaign.
    It was not in the British governments interest to have a destabilized N.I. or Britain, it paid a huge financial, human and political cost. It was not in Irelands interest to have the troubles, with attacks on our Gardai, army etc. No country likes to be attacked by terrorists.

    If the state was a player then the conflict/war had no chance of ending until they stopped.
    We need to know what they did.

    What the victims and their families here cycle, are they of lesser importance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    Not all of them would have known what PIRA cells were plotting / doing, or may may reported it in time due to concerns about their own safety.

    So they were double-agents? Cool story.

    Anything to keep that whacky Cowboys-and-Indians understanding of the conflict in your own head as it is.

    As you were.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    If the state was a player..

    It was not a game, not when the armed struggle comprised of thousands of bombs / gun attacks on civilians as well as the government itself and its employees. Hence why they wanted to stop it. It was an embarrassment if nothing else.
    What the victims and their families here cycle, are they of lesser importance?
    What victims and families? 60% of those killed were killed by Republicans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    It was not a game, not when the armed struggle comprised of thousands of bombs / gun attacks on civilians as well as the government itself and its employees. Hence why they wanted to stop it. It was an embarrassment if nothing else.


    What victims and families? 60% of those killed were killed by Republicans.

    The victims that the British turned a blind eye to and allowed them to be killed.

    Do their families deserve to know why?
    Are they way down in your pecking order? Because you batted them away earlier as having been justifiably expendable in pursuit of ending a conflict/war.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    The victims that the British turned a blind eye to and allowed them to be killed.

    Do you mean all the Protestants that were killed by subsequent PIRA and INLA attacks when the British allowed so many Republicans to escape from prison in the early eighties?

    Or innocent people like Jean McColville?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    Do you mean all the Protestants that were killed by subsequent PIRA and INLA attacks when the British allowed so many Republicans to escape from prison in the early eighties?

    Alright, you are just gonna deflect.

    Perhaps one day your conscience might convince you that the only way all victims get equality is when all the players sit around a table and admit what it was they did.

    I have been calling for that consistently since beginning to post here. You still cannot bring yourself to look the truth square in the face.

    Good night.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    we all know the Provos had/have many skeletons in the cupboard, in the attic, under the floorboards, & in a bog, but hey SURPRISE! SURPRISE! the mother of parliaments aka the UK Govt. it now seems has just as many skeletons too!

    I guess HM Govt. were hoping, as with so many other sectarian mass-murderers on the payroll, some of his erstwhile comrades would have caught up with Scapatticci by now and "tidied-up" matters.

    how embarrassing Jeeves?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    Perhaps one day your conscience might convince you that the only way all victims get equality is when all the players sit around a table and admit what it was they did.

    "all victims"? Many victims are in graves, or in wheelchairs as a result of bomb attacks.

    "all players"? When you know who will not even admit he was in the IRA?

    "My conscience" is fine thanks, I never supported or condoned either of the paramilitaries in N. Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    "My conscience" is fine thanks, I never supported or condoned either of the paramilitaries in N. Ireland.

    But you support he actions of the so-called security forces unreservedly despite the fact that there was systemic collusion with unionist murder gangs who killed many hundreds of innocent Catholic people.

    As you were.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    But you support he actions of the so-called security forces unreservedly
    Not unreservedly, no. Some of the actions by a small minority of the hundreds of thousands who served there are condemned.

    And far more Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the security forces.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,300 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    The British/RUC will never admit that they were up to their necks in blood, along with their informers, most of which happened to be that of innocent Catholic people.
    I think the IRA apologized for killing innocents back in 2002, but the brits have no strategic reason to admit to it now. If anything, it'd drive more young people into against them.

    TBH, I'm of the opinion that Steaknife was captured a while back, info was given, watchers put in place near suspected arms caches, and they're releasing this info to see if anyone is still alive that knows the exact locations will scurry to said caches with an intention of moving them.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/unionist-anger-as-mcdonald-commemorates-ira-bomber-36540187.html
    The Sinn Féin president-elect was present at a wreath-laying ceremony in Castlewellan, Co Down, for IRA member Peter McNulty, who died when the device he was planting at the town's police station exploded prematurely.
    SF newest leader lays a wreath that celebrates a terrorist who bombs police stations. This was a very clear "fcuk you" to the brits, so releasing the capture of Steaknife could be someones idea of subtly saying "careful now".

    =-=

    I don't see the cat and mouse game between SF and the brits ending anytime soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    Not unreservedly, no. Some of the actions by a small minority of the hundreds of thousands who served there are condemned.

    Small minority my hole. The dogs in the street knew so people who joined and served in the RUC/UDR didn't? You must think people are very stupid.
    And far more Catholics were killed by Republicans than by the security forces.

    Only if you fool yourself into believing the 'security' forces weren't up to their necks in collusion that there's plenty of evidence for.

    Consider this fraternity of serial murderers, known as the Glenanne Gang.

    John Oliver Weir - RUC.

    William "Billy" McCaughey- RUC.

    Billy Hanna - UDR.

    Robin "The Jackal" Jackson - UDR member and an alleged RUC Special Branch agent

    Robert McConnell - UVF and 2nd Battalion UDR corporal.

    Laurence McClure - UVF volunteer and RUC SPG

    James Mitchell - an RUC Reserve.

    Robert John "R.J". Kerr - UDA commander.

    Harris Boyle - UDR soldier and UVF volunteer.

    Wesley Somerville - UDR soldier and a UVF lieutenant.

    Gary Armstrong - RUC sergeant.

    Captain John Irwin - UDR intelligence officer

    Thomas Raymond Crozier - UDR, and UVF.

    James Roderick McDowell - UDR, and UVF

    John James Somerville - UDR

    Norman Greenlee - UDR soldier and UVF volunteer.

    Gordon Liggett - (UDA).

    William Ashton Wright - UDR soldier.

    Joey Lutton - UDR.

    Laurence Tate - UDR

    William Thomas Leonard - UDR

    Ian Mitchell - RUC

    David Wilson - RUC

    The Glenanne Gang murdered 119 innocent Catholics and one Republican. Sectarian mass murder via collusion with, and participation of, the 'security' forces.

    Run along now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    And the above list which you copy and paste so often is debatable, but the fact that well over 100,000 security forces served in N. Ireland and yet there were relatively few murders out of the total tells us that the vast majority of people were law abiding. Same as our own security services too ( Gardai etc), although the Smithwick tribunal did find collusion in the Gardai with republicans too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    the_syco wrote: »
    the brits have no strategic reason to admit to it now.

    They'll never admit the role they played in the dirty war, ever. Too many reputations to protect and the Great Britain 'good guy' James Bond-esque bullshit branding of their state.
    I don't see the cat and mouse game between SF and the brits ending anytime soon.

    Yeah, I'd say you're probably onto something there, the conflict is over but there's still a information war. Arlene Foster is being brought before the courts to explain herself for cutting funding into investigating 'legacy issues' (a euphemism for truth recovery), funding which would also have included investigating what was known about the Kingsmill massacre of Protestant people she claims to represent.

    This shit goes deep.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    the_syco wrote: »
    TBH, I'm of the opinion that Steaknife was captured a while back, info was given, watchers put in place near suspected arms caches, .
    Thought they were all decommissioned?
    They'll never admit the role they played in the dirty war, ever. Too many reputations to protect

    And indeed some of them high up Republican,it has been speculated.
    More important to protect the peace now, I suppose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    And the above list which you copy and paste so often is debatable, but the fact that well over 100,000 security forces served in N. Ireland

    All the people in that list are RUC/UDR.

    I deliberately didn't mention the British Army grunts sent here from Britain who made up the vast majority of security forces in that 100k. I actually feel sorry for most of them who were themselves used as pawns.

    A lot of the British soldiers knew exactly what the RUC were like and hated going out on patrols with them.

    440364.png

    PETER - CHESHIRE REGIMENT (Brits Speak Out)

    cain.ulst.ac.uk

    You're losing the information war. Get used to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭cycle4fun


    And "Peter" was one of the well over 100k (some would say 300,000 ) British troops who served at one time or another in N. Ireland during Operation Banner. Do not both trying to find quotes from the other 299,999. You missed the point, most security services were law abiding. Otherwise the statistics would have been a lot worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    And "Peter" was one of the well over 100k (some would say 300,000 ) British troops who served at one time or another in N. Ireland during Operation Banner. Do not both trying to find quotes from the other 299,999. You missed the point, most security services were law abiding. Otherwise the statistics would have been a lot worse.

    Liam%20Yawning.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,759 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I doubt Freddie is that bothered about being arrested.
    I don't think his pal Gordon Kerr will have any trouble sleeping tonight either.
    It will be a whitewash.
    Any findings that are made will be kept in house for reasons of national security. There won't be any prosecutions arising out of this.
    The real question we should be asking is who within the IRA and Sinn Fein was aiding the deputy head of the nutting squad to get away with his deception for so long.

    It would not surprise me if 2 or 3 members of the IRA'S army council were informers. A tell tale sign, someone is an informer, is charges suddenly being dropped because they are not in the public interest...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,300 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    cycle4fun wrote: »
    Thought they were all decommissioned?
    Look at those who joined splinter groups and gangs; not everyone played ball, and walked away. And thus some may have decided to play the long game, and hid a nice cache "just in case".


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