FEDERER v NADAL V DJOKOVIC (etc) - MOD NOTE 1ST POST

josip

@eagle eye Have you played tennis or done athletics?

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103897#Comment_121103897

I didn't say speed isn't important in tennis, just not as important as it is in sprinting.

In technical sports like tennis lack of athleticism as you get older can be compensated for by having better technique.That doesn't apply anywhere near to the same extent in sprinting where raw athleticism is far more important.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103969#Comment_121103969

Both but at amateur level. Completely different to being an elite athlete. I played Rugby at a high enough level, completely different and it's a team sport where you can get away with things when you are older because you have young teammates with speed, reactions and stamina that you can only dream about when you go past thirty no matter how hard you try.

Even look at soccer, Cristiano Ronaldo was so fast when he was younger and that speed started to wane as he turned thirty. He was still a great player after that but it was because he had teammates picking up the slack and allowing him to stay forward and not work as hard. By 33 he was no longer wanted at Real Madrid and moved to Juventus in Italy, a lesser league, and did well there. He still scored lots of goals but at that stage he was already depending on his teammates to do the work he couldn't do anymore. He then went to United for a year and was unwanted there after a short spell because he couldn't do the work and ended up on the bench and he wasn't happy about that. He works hard on his fitness and he's still going but he's been nowhere near the player he was at 30 but he's made it work.

In an individual sport there is no place to hide, you have nobody that can do the work for you. This is why I mentioned sprinting and athletics in general. Longer distance runners, 5k and 10k track runners move up to marathons when they get older because there is less speed and you don't have to react quickly to a move. All you need for that is a consistent stride pattern, reasonbable speed and stamina.

You want to talk technical events where speed is not required as much, the triple jump is a very technical event. The oldest winner of that in the last five Olympics was 28. The high jump is another technical event, oldest winner of that in the last five olympics was 30. These events don't require the speed and reaction times a tennis player needs.

Can you explain to me how such a dominant player hasn't won the Olympic singles? Would it having anything to do with the amount of testing thats done in advance and during the event? Or are you just going to tell me it's unimportant for him?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104680#Comment_121104680

At the Tokyo Olympics, the general consensus is that Djokovic tried to do too much by playing in both the singles and mixed doubles. In the humidity of Tokyo, it was too much strain on his body and he couldn't recover in time. He still managed to get to the semi-finals in both disciplines, so I don't think it's an anomaly.

You mentioned stamina in your post above. That's a recognised trait of Djokovic's and one of the reasons he's harder to beat at GSs. He's a lot more beatable at the 3-setters nowadays and only enters them in order to prep for a GS. Which tallies with the point you're making about him not being quite as fast around the court as 6 years ago.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104772#Comment_121104772

You mention one Olympics, how about all the other ones?

Andy Murray won it twice, same age as Djokovic. And he hasn't been the same player since he turned 30. His last grand slam final was at 29.

josip

Now that I think about it, you might have something. That he never won an Olympic medal, let alone an Olympic title, does indicate something suspicious. Federer would also be under the same cloud then. Would his bronze mean anything? But Nadal and Murray are in the clear by virtue of their golds. And Murray's decline was because he turned 30, not because he broke his body trying to get to #1.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121105807#Comment_121105807

I always loved Federer but like you say no Olympic title but even more than that he won one title in 2010 and another in 2012 and then out of nowhere five years later he wins three in twelve months.

Girly Gal

The main reason Djokovic is still dominating in the slams, is that the level of competition has dropped to possibly an all time low over the last 4/5 years. Djokovic's level has also fallen in that time, but, it's still high enough to generally win in the slams, with the exception of Alcaraz, no new worthy contenders emerged in the last decade or more. If Nadal and Federer were able to stay fit, they would still probably be Djokovic's main threats. Alcaraz still has to find consistency at slam level, this will come probably in the next year or so, but he is the only serious threat to Djokovic at this stage.

The reality is Covid and disqualification have cost Djokovic more slams than any opponents in the last 3/4 years, that's a sad indictment of the state of men's tennis. That's not Djokovic's fault, he can only play what's in front of him.

walshb

Nole is, and has been slowing down. What do folks expect? You get to 31 and suddenly you’re fit for the scrap heap?

Simple: Nole today and recently is not as good/fast/intense as he was 5-6 years ago. If folks can’t see this (with silly comments) like he’s not slowed down (when he clearly has), and then accusing him of doping to explain this silly analysis, well

Nole at 34/35 and 36 is still good enough to be number 1. And if it was Nole from 2014/2015/2016, he’d be winning with one leg and one arm.

and can we stop this nonsense sprinting-triple jumping/tennis comparison. Speed is vital in sprinting/triple jump. Speed is important in tennis, but unlike sprinting, tennis has far more to consider. Huge and varied skill base!

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109690#Comment_121109690

It's fairly obvious to anyone with eyes that Djokovic is not as good as he was, that's to be expected as he ages, happens to everyone. What's really ridiculous is when commentators who should know better insist that he is playing as well if not better than ever, it's all an attempt to keep hyping the "product" in this case tennis. They did this with Federer before him and Nadal when he won the AO last year. The standard right now is at a low ebb, to be expected really following on from the peak of the big 3's sustained excellence for well over a decade. It's obvious to anyone with even a passing interest in tennis, that the standard has fallen significantly, but, the media and tennis World in general do not want to admit it, as it will damage their "product ".