Off Topic Thread 4.0

prawnsambo

Zzippy wrote: »

A lot of farmers have been encouraged, and indeed funded, to expand their operations beyond what is sustainable - deregulation of milk quotas, government policy to intensify production, etc. A lot of dairy farmers especially now have herds that can barely be sustained by the land in a good year. We already had one fodder crisis this year, there will be another one soon as many farms won't get a second cut of hay/silage with the weather. They are right to be worried, but in all honesty, many have only themselves to blame.

I don't think it would have mattered if you were overstocked or not this year. Massively long winter followed by a drought starting within a few weeks of the heavy rain/snow stopping.

swiwi_

Farms are tiny in Europe. Historically helped by subsidies. Part of the problem I think, although no expert on the matter.

Zzippy

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think it would have mattered if you were overstocked or not this year. Massively long winter followed by a drought starting within a few weeks of the heavy rain/snow stopping.

Plenty of farmers who didn't intensify in recent years and have enough fodder set aside to keep them going. The father-in-law actually sells a shed load of hay every year and still has enough for his own stock. Stocking density is too often based on optimistic predictions of growth - if you can't weather the odd bad year you have too much stock.

irishbucsfan

UTFL

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

Farmers getting very, very worried about the ongoing weather.

I'm no expert and reading models at all but from reading the weather forum earlier there seems to be a possible breakdown of the settled weather on the way next weekend...maybe...

I never thought Id say it but I'd love a rainy day...just one...and then back to the sun.

mfceiling

irishbucsfan wrote: »

UTFL

Hon tyrone

DGRulz

It may be the sun has finally gotten to me but a thought occurred to me this evening. There's new borns born in Ireland the last few weeks that have never experienced a rainy day.

Elvisjuice

swiwi_ wrote: »

Farms are tiny in Europe. Historically helped by subsidies. Part of the problem I think, although no expert on the matter.

what does's size matter ? you are talking scutter by the way , farmers are putting out silage they would normally do in October.

Zzippy

Elvisjuice wrote: »

what does's size matter ? you are talking scutter by the way , farmers are putting out silage they would normally do in October.

Mod: No need to be so rude. Please try to post in a more civil manner in future please.

Dubinusa

God! Hope Belgium and Croatia win. A brand new WC Champion would be great.

Elvisjuice

Zzippy wrote: »

Mod: No need to be so rude. Please try to post in a more civil manner in future please.

my apologies stayed in beer garden too long yesterday .

OldRio

Zzippy wrote: »

A lot of farmers have been encouraged, and indeed funded, to expand their operations beyond what is sustainable - deregulation of milk quotas, government policy to intensify production, etc. A lot of dairy farmers especially now have herds that can barely be sustained by the land in a good year. We already had one fodder crisis this year, there will be another one soon as many farms won't get a second cut of hay/silage with the weather. They are right to be worried, but in all honesty, many have only themselves to blame.

As a farmer all I can say is ..... Well I can't say what I want without a ban.
Ah feck it anyway. You have not a notion of what you are talking about. The last time we had weather like this was 1976. I remember it well. 42 years ago.
Feck it. You're an idiot.

OldRio

William Dunlop tragically killed yesterday. Yet another one of that family killed doing the sport they love.
RIP.

Zzippy

OldRio wrote: »

As a farmer all I can say is ..... Well I can't say what I want without a ban.
Ah feck it anyway. You have not a notion of what you are talking about. The last time we had weather like this was 1976. I remember it well. 42 years ago.
Feck it. You're an idiot.

My in-laws are farmers. Farming, hurling and football is the only talk in their house. The father-in-law and brother-in-law both farm beef cattle. They also rent land that they cut for silage and hay, but don't put cattle on. Consequently they have enough feed set aside for a bad couple of years, as well as having some to sell. They could keep a lot more cattle on the land they farm, but then they wouldn't have enough feed every year to set some aside. Too many farmers increased stock to that level where they are vulnerable to a feed shortage. You can blame that on the farmers for doing so, the department and Teagasc for encouraging it, and the government for their drive to increase production.

Either way, I see the results in my work in declining water quality caused by excess nitrates, and increased runoff caused by improved drainage; increasing production to these levels is not sustainable without damage to the environment and vulnerability to weather like this, which is increasingly likely due to climate change.

Personally, farmers vulnerability to climate is really none of my concern, but when the environment is being damaged by increased farming activity, I do have cause for concern, and to be perfectly honest, I don't give a damn if you think I'm an idiot - I'd rather see you actually address points raised than just dish out abuse.

OldRio

The point is this 1976 was the last time we had weather like this. 42 years ago. Let that sink in. 42 years ago.
Should we put feed away for a once in 42 year's event?
But from reading your last post your real issue is with Farmers. Therefore you take this crisis to further your own anti farmers view.
Climate change you say, environmental damage you say. Nitrates you say. Deary me, the green lobby never missed an opportunity. What's next Cows farting?

Zzippy

OldRio wrote: »

The point is this 1976 was the last time we had weather like this. 42 years ago. Let that sink in. 42 years ago.
Should we put feed away for a once in 42 year's event?
But from reading your last post your real issue is with Farmers. Therefore you take this crisis to further your own anti farmers view.
Climate change you say, environmental damage you say. Nitrates you say. Deary me, the green lobby never missed an opportunity. What's next Cows farting?

You know you're losing an argument when you resort to throwing mud and hoping some of it sticks. I have nothing against farmers, I have family who are farmers. I have a bee in my bonnet about a government pushing an agenda to increase agricultural production and claiming it is "sustainable intensification" when it is not good for the environment and exposes individual farmers to risk such as the current drought.
If you could actually debate the points raised re intensification, we might have an actual conversation, but if you're just going to resort to childish insults, well it's clear that you can't defend that policy.

By the way, 1976 was the last time we had temps of 32C, but we had a similar episode in 1995, and almost the same temperatures in 2013. Climate change means "freak" events like the storms of last winter, the long cold spring and droughts will become more frequent. If you can't plan ahead for these eventualities, you won't be in business for long.

OldRio

' Lost the argument' ? Deary me. OK you win the internet.
You have family that are farmers you say. My son works in precision engineering. Doesn't make me an engineer.

Climate change? Have a read of the thread on the weather forum about that. Eye opening. Con job for tax purposes is my take on it. An industry in itself,
1976 was the last bad drought. That's is why their is a crisis.
As for throwing mud. You mentioned Climate change first. You mentioned Nitrates, not me.
As for intensification? If you have no grass to cut you can't feed one animal never mind hundreds Therefore that argument is bull and void.

irishbucsfan

OldRio wrote: »

Climate change? Have a read of the thread on the weather forum about that. Eye opening. Con job for tax purposes is my take on it. An industry in itself,

Incredible that people can be convinced of this so easily.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

Squidgy Black

OldRio wrote: »

' Lost the argument' ? Deary me. OK you win the internet.
You have family that are farmers you say. My son works in precision engineering. Doesn't make me an engineer.

Climate change? Have a read of the thread on the weather forum about that. Eye opening. Con job for tax purposes is my take on it. An industry in itself,
1976 was the last bad drought. That's is why their is a crisis.
As for throwing mud. You mentioned Climate change first. You mentioned Nitrates, not me.
As for intensification? If you have no grass to cut you can't feed one animal never mind hundreds Therefore that argument is bull and void.

There's also a conspiracy theories forum, but I'd say you've already had a good read through that as well if you think climate change is a "con job for tax purposes" :rolleyes:

OldRio

OldRio wrote: »

' Lost the argument' ? Deary me. OK you win the internet.
You have family that are farmers you say. My son works in precision engineering. Doesn't make me an engineer.

Climate change? Have a read of the thread on the weather forum about that. Eye opening. Con job for tax purposes is my take on it. An industry in itself,
1976 was the last bad drought. That's is why their is a crisis.
As for throwing mud. You mentioned Climate change first. You mentioned Nitrates, not me.
As for intensification? If you have no grass to cut you can't feed one animal never mind hundreds Therefore that argument is bull and void.

In my industry if I ignore trends or changes I lose money and competitiveness in the future.

As someone whose industry is reliant on climate your comments are baffling. Climate change is not a hoax and it will impact you sooner than it will most people on this forum yet you bury your head in the sand.

The irony of you calling others idiots.

Zzippy

OldRio wrote: »

' Lost the argument' ? Deary me. OK you win the internet.
You have family that are farmers you say. My son works in precision engineering. Doesn't make me an engineer.

Climate change? Have a read of the thread on the weather forum about that. Eye opening. Con job for tax purposes is my take on it. An industry in itself,
1976 was the last bad drought. That's is why their is a crisis.
As for throwing mud. You mentioned Climate change first. You mentioned Nitrates, not me.
As for intensification? If you have no grass to cut you can't feed one animal never mind hundreds Therefore that argument is bull and void.

I mentioned facts. Climate change is a fact. Nitrate pollution is a fact. One is a factor in farming, the other is caused by farming. Instead of debating these points you just pooh pooh them as if they are conspiracies. You completely ignore the point about intensification, which is another fact.

I'm out. This is like playing chess with a pigeon. Pointless.

Bazzo

Apparently there's going to be a bit of rain this week without the temperatures dropping too much. I can live with that.

OldRio

Squidgy Black wrote: »

There's also a conspiracy theories forum, but I'd say you've already had a good read through that as well if you think climate change is a "con job for tax purposes" :rolleyes:

Well I didn't know about the conspiracy forum and yet you did. Says it all.

OldRio

OldRio wrote: »

Well I didn't know about the conspiracy forum and yet you did. Says it all.

Why do you not believe in man made climate change do you mind me asking, I'm genuinely curious.

OldRio

Zzippy wrote: »

I mentioned facts. Climate change is a fact. Nitrate pollution is a fact. One is a factor in farming, the other is caused by farming. Instead of debating these points you just pooh pooh them as if they are conspiracies. You completely ignore the point about intensification, which is another fact.

I'm out. This is like playing chess with a pigeon. Pointless.

I have mentioned intensification. How anyone can blame farmers for this drought I know not. Therefore I too are out.

OldRio

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you not believe in man made climate change do you mind me asking, I'm genuinely curious.

Fair enough. Climate change is obviously happening and has happened all through the Earth's history. I remember a time when it was called Greenhouse effect, global warming and now climate change.
The effect of this change by man IMHO is exaggerated.
Have read of the thread on the Weather forum. Some interesting evidence on both sides of the argument.
I also think Governments are using Climate Change as a excuse to tax.
Just my take. I'm a cynical old bollox anyway.

stephen_n

OldRio wrote: »

Fair enough. Climate change is obviously happening and has happened all through the Earth's history. I remember a time when it was called Greenhouse effect, global warming and now climate change.
The effect of this change by man IMHO is exaggerated.
Have read of the thread on the Weather forum. Some interesting evidence on both sides of the argument.
I also think Governments are using Climate Change as a excuse to tax.
Just my take. I'm a cynical old bollox anyway.

Climate change has never happened in anywhere near the proportions it has in the last 150 years. That is a complete fallacy thrown out by conspiracy theororists. Yes the climate of the earth has changed through out its history. Bar global events such as a massive meteor hitting the earth and causing an ice age. Those changes happen over tens of thousands of years, not 150 years. Man made global warming is a unique phenomenon in the earths history and that is based on scientific data. It is linked to 2 things, industrialization and mainly the explosion in human population in the last 100 years.

There are undoubtedly people profiting from climate change, but it is still a very real and undeniable thing.

irishbucsfan

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

People just don't believe in it because it suits them better for it to be a hoax. It's entirely selfish and self-serving.

OldRio

OldRio wrote: »

Fair enough. Climate change is obviously happening and has happened all through the Earth's history. I remember a time when it was called Greenhouse effect, global warming and now climate change.
The effect of this change by man IMHO is exaggerated.
Have read of the thread on the Weather forum. Some interesting evidence on both sides of the argument.
I also think Governments are using Climate Change as a excuse to tax.
Just my take. I'm a cynical old bollox anyway.

The earliest biological life on this planet converted the atmosphere from carbon dioxide based into primarily oxygen, contributing to the creation of high altitude ozone (O3) and allowing for life to exist outside of the oceans. That at least should tell you that life alone can hugely influence the entire planet.

The greenhouse effect was man made and was tackled aggressively by man. Global warming and climate change are two names for the same thing. We stopped calling it global warming specifically because people reacted to cold weather as a 'see.. what global warming' but ultimately the gradual warming of the planet will result in more and more extreme weather.

I'll be honest with you Oldrio, you might think this is someone reaching into your pocket and that's fair enough. Everyone is sceptical. But friends of mine who are smarter than me and well versed in the science behind climate are genuinely concerned about the next 150 years and these would be the last types of people to get alarmed.

We've seen a lot of extreme weather this year and that is going to get worse. I really hope we don't have to wait for this to be 100% completely obvious before we take real action because by then it will be too late.

thomond2006

Relying on an energy source that burns and creates heat probably isn't the best idea. It's best to adapt now than before we are forced to.