Star Trek Discovery 1x13 – "What's Past Is Prologue" [** SPOILERS **]

noodler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would you stop. The Mirror is based on violent take overs and she had lost her entire support base. The crew was sworn to Lorca (did not know he was dead yaet) and it was his original troops coming in the door.

She had no fecking chance of making it out of the room, never mind reasserting power

Yeah, they did dress up the plot device by having all her crew apparently change allegiance in a second.

Its all very ham-fisted.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

Yeah, they did dress up the plot device by having all her crew apparently change allegiance in a second.

Its all very ham-fisted.

Want us to point out several of the hundreds of real world examples of this happen.

The only thing ham fisted is you attempts to deny the logic in such a power transition. We get it, you don't like the show but ignoring facts to bend the story to your dislike is transparent.
Your arguments that this type of ruler doesn't fall hard and fast is extremely weak and already been countered several times in thread

AMKC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In the first ep of the Mirror Universe didn't they specifically say that Discovery took the place of the MU Discovery (which is why there were not two Discovery's flying about).

I assume this meant that the MU Discovery swapped in the other direction - rather than simply that ship disintegrated/everyone died as 'our' discovery tooks its place in space-time.

In the first ep of the Mirror Universe didn't they specifically say that Discovery took the place of the MU Discovery (which is why there were not two Discovery's flying about).

Yes that was there theory but that does not mean it happened or had to happen like that. As other have noted and said the ISS Discovery did not have a spore drive. The ISS Discovery could have still been in its own universe or maybe it did go to the other prime Universe and maybe fight with the Klingons.

muckwarrior wrote: »

That's a good point. If there are infinite universes then not only can every possible combination of events happen, but they must happen.

Great Quote.

seamus wrote: »

"My neck is exposed", as she said.
A semi-successful coup where the leader flees with their life is basically the end of their reign. Someone who leads with force and fear loses all of their power when they run.

She'll be an interesting addition given their current situation. In the "normal" circumstances Starfleet would have no option except to imprison her for public safety, but she might serve as a tactical resource in leading a rebellion against the Klingons.

Yes that's what I was thinking too.

pah wrote: »

I reckon the Klingons got their hands on ISS Discovery which turned the odds in their favour. On top of never receiving the cloaking data from USS discovery

Or the ISS Discovery decided to fight with the Klingons.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s plenty of human histories where once powerful people lose power in an instant because people don’t fear them anymore. Watch ceausescu’s last speech.

The emperor had lost power because Lorca killed all her loyal followers. The Terran empire seems to do succession by violence, not relationship, and she lost, even if Lorca didn’t eventually win. The woman who was with Lorca will probably become emperor.

Cammonder Landry.

Goodshape wrote: »

You sure about that? Michelle Yeoh is a pretty incredible martial artists. Not saying there wasn't a bit of movie-magic going on but I wouldn't discount her moves as CGI without evidence.

http://kungfukingdom.com/top-10-michelle-yeoh-movie-fight-scenes/


Interesting that some people took against this episode. Differing expectations, I suppose. What really sold it for me were the action scenes – and I'm usually against too much action in Star Trek!

But in this episode, the action was fantastic. The hallway fight looked like I'd dream a Star Trek hallway fight would look like – with phasers, shields, personal transporters. All the technology was there and they made it actually work. It reminded me of a Star Trek novel I read recently (as much of this series does – remind me of a novel rather than a traditional Trek series) and was leaps and bounds better than any Star Trek phaser fight we've ever seen on screen.

Similarly with the thrown-room fight. Partially because Michelle Yeoh kicking ass is just a kick-ass thing to see! But I loved how they managed to do it all so well and still include a few Star Trek tropes with double-fisted punches and the like. Maybe it's just fan service but... I'm a fan.. I was happy.

And Saru commanding the attack on the palace ship (forget the name!), and the bridge crew working together – quickly! – was exactly how you'd want that to look.


Honestly, taking all that into account, I was more than willing to excuse a few shortcomings. And while the story might not be going 100% the way I'd have chosen it to go, if they keep up this level of quality then I'm fine with not getting my way entirely.

Overall I found the episode ok but there was nothing really new or surprising in it well until the end anyway. It was good to see some more of the bridge get to say some lines. Captain Saru is cool as well he is really growing in to the roll. The end of the episode was really good. I look forward to seeing what they do in the next few episodes. I knew straight away that if they had gone 9 months ahead that the Federation had to have lost the war.
I think Lorca being gone is a pity but once he became just the one dimensional villain he became boring anyway. You can see now in the Prime Universe that he was using the war with the klingons as a way to get back to his own Universe and Discovery was the what he needed and used to do that. He did not care about the outcome of the war or who won as it was not his problem.
I think they are going to need to do something big to keep a lot of fans that were there just watching it for Lorca interested.

noodler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Want us to point out several of the hundreds of real world examples of this happen.

The only thing ham fisted is you attempts to deny the logic in such a power transition. We get it, you don't like the show but ignoring facts to bend the story to your dislike is transparent.
Your arguments that this type of ruler doesn't fall hard and fast is extremely weak and already been countered several times in thread

Ease up there buddy.

There are no facts here.

Only subjective interpretations of 80 mins of TV.

Some of which some posters will justify with tenuous links to history.

No facts though.

AtomicHorror

noodler wrote: »

Yeah, they did dress up the plot device by having all her crew apparently change allegiance in a second.

Its all very ham-fisted.

Ah now, I'm really not sure you're a credible critic noodler. Or maybe you're just having a little fun with us.

noodler

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Ah now, I'm really not sure you're a credible critic noodler. Or maybe you're just having a little fun with us.

No no, I just think people are reading a bit more into a convenient plot device, on of the many!, than there is.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

AtomicHorror

noodler wrote: »

No no, I just think people are reading a bit more into a convenient plot device, on of the many!, than there is.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Again though, the succession thing was demonstrated and referenced several times in the previous 4 episodes. That's not a plot device, or at least it is not a convenient or arbitrary device. It is a functioning part of the fictional world, functioning exactly as it did previously. No external references needed.

You seem to have missed a few plot points in this episode which is why some of the others aren't too quick to accept your take. It's a bit of a bold take, in that context.

Evade

AMKC wrote: »

Or the ISS Discovery decided to fight with the Klingons.

I don't see two groups of fighty xenophobes working together.

pixelburp

Only got to see the episode properly last night; I kinda enjoyed it but genetically it felt most in common with those first two episodes - for good and bad - arguably making it one of the weaker instalments since the 'proper' pilot of Episode 3. If not the weakest. The plotting was excessively hurried and muddled, focusing perhaps a bit too much on the action instead of the characters. Even so, the action itself was engaging so there's that, and like Goodshape mentioned earlier was the first time we saw a Trek phaser fight in a corridor and it look legitimately exciting and dangerous. Also, alongside the sound engineering of Star Wars, there's something iconic about that classic 'photon torpedo' sound - and it was fantastic to hear it in all its glory during that episode; previous uses felt remixed and altered in comparison.

Equally on the plus side, all the scenes with Captain Saru were great, his speech in engineering feeling like an open call to arms that this ship didn't have the Federation in its heart; the script very intentionally gave everyone something to do - even the smaller characters such as that previously discussed android/augment Airiam got a lot of dialogue - and was probably the episode that felt most in line with previous Trek bridges. It's still a shame to see Lorca gone though: the twist kinda retroactively undermined and cheapened what could have been one of the most complex and overtly different Trek Captains even on TV, yet in the end an escape hatch was installed, that he really wasn't 'proper Trek' to begin with. A shame - but Captain Saru is a nice replacement (and potentially just as complex given his species' traits)

Not sure what to make of the big cliffhanger, I guess we're going to loop in some time-travel as well now; I don't genuinely believe they'd explore ANOTHER timeline by staying in that 'Federation loses' timeline; my theory is that they'll use the Spore drive one last time to zip back to the 'present', endangering the Spore Network too much so it'll get locked off permanently (and maybe leaving the Discovery in a perilous position in the season finale). Mind you, given my Lorca theory I'm not holding any belief that this is likely!

Spear

I'm guessing people don't watch the preview for the next episode. It doesn't look like they don't have any grounds to fear any time travel based deus ex machine stuff.

Goodshape

Spear wrote: »

I'm guessing people don't watch the preview for the next episode. It doesn't look like they don't have any grounds to fear any time travel based deus ex machine stuff.

Sshhhhh! I don't watch it – on purpose!

I appreciate the double negative ("doesn't look like they don't...") because now I'm not sure what you're trying to say :P

Let's leave it there

Spear

The preview does give away a lot, and you're better off not seeing them. I reckon I know the bulk of what happens next as a result.

So don't discuss it in a tread about an already aired episode?

Please

Evade

Would it be a good idea to start the episode 14 thread so anyone who wants to speculate on the preview can?

Goodshape

Yeah, I think that's worked on other TV forums? Start the episode thread with a link to the preview, for those that are into that sort of thing. The rest of us will join in after it airs!


This thread definitely isn't the place to discuss previews anyway

Spear

I was trying to strike a happy medium of not spoiling anything but still reassuring that there doesn't seem to be a cheap cop out on the way. But a pre-air but spoiler friendly Ep 14 thread seems wisest, especially given this series constant surprise/twist thing it's got going.

fxotoole

Spear wrote: »

I was trying to strike a happy medium of not spoiling anything but still reassuring that there doesn't seem to be a cheap cop out on the way. But a pre-air but spoiler friendly Ep 14 thread seems wisest, especially given this series constant surprise/twist thing it's got going.

I agree. No speculation/spoilers for so 14, please, start a separate thread for that!!

Evade

So do CBS not officially release trailers? I was looking for one to start the next episode thread but the only ones I can find are stamped with some streaming site or a video of a TV.

TheIrishGrover

pixelburp wrote: »

..... alongside the sound engineering of Star Wars......

SUICRA, I meant to mention that. I actually laughed out loud at that bit: Did.... Did Lorca just turn into a TIE Fighter as he disintegrated"

Oh oh... I know... It was sound from the Star Wars Universe and Patton Oswald's monologue is coming true........

Sad Professor

While I generally agree that discussion of preview trailers should probably be spoiler tagged, lets not go overboard and banish all speculation as well. It's impossible to separate what happened in this episode from speculation about what might happen in future episodes. It's all part of the fun of post-viewing discussion.

Anyway, I loved this episode. Tbh I was about ready to throw in the towel on this show, but the last few episodes have won me over. I'm not sure it's really Star Trek but I don't care.

flazio

Evade wrote: »

So do CBS not officially release trailers? I was looking for one to start the next episode thread but the only ones I can find are stamped with some streaming site or a video of a TV.

A preview clip is shown on After Trek. The clip on this week's edition revealed some very juicy information.