Star Trek Discovery 1x13 – "What's Past Is Prologue" [** SPOILERS **]

spookwoman

Things are going to get very interesting.
Excellent episode with some good twists.

OldMrBrennan83

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Tristram

Another great episode. Continues to surprise.

FutureGuy

Running out of superlatives.

OldMrBrennan83

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hal9550

Yes the best episode yet - its hard to give it a 10/10 because better may yet come but given what has preceded this, 10/10

Questions - and in line with last weeks posts on spoiler tagging - SPOILERS AHEAD

Lorca
Im sorry to see him gone tbh.. but where is our Lorca? Killed? Transferred to the mirror universe?

I have visions of returning to Mirror Universe and finding that he is in charge and trying to make it fairer or something. but its unlikely i guess

Im REALLY sorry to see the actor go, if that is in fact what has happened

The USS Defiant
Sadly we probably wont get to see it, but still curious as to the ramifications of foreknowledge of what will happen in 'the tholian web'

ISS Discovery
I think we are likely to hear what has happened to this imperial vessel, and Captain Killy

The Spore Network
Safe to say we now Know why its not in use in the TOS/TNG eras. Even the damage to Stamets aside, its easy to see what happens. Too Risky, etc..

and finally, one thing i noticed. interested to see if anyone else noticed

Mirror Lorca's diatribe about the Federation being a 'Sociological Experiment', or words to that effect.. doesnt that echo what the Vulcan Separatists said about the Federation in the Prime Universe? possible connection?

Evade

I'm glad we got a real sense of the scale of the Charon, it's huge.

I'm not sure what Burnham was thinking rescuing the Empress, letting a crazed megalomaniac loose on your universe seems like a bad idea.

Was that a TIE fighter sound effect as Lorca was falling into the mycelial star?

Technically the speculation of the Discovery ending up in a post fall of the Federation time was right. So is Daniels is going to show up to fix things? Or maybe Jonathon Archer will show up to put right what once went wrong? Or more likely at some point during their childhood Burnham will have seen Spocks notes on how to time travel using a star and use that to fix everything. The only other thing they'll need for that plan to work is for Jason Isaacs to have played a time traveler in a previous film.

hal9550 wrote: »

Lorca Im sorry to see him gone tbh.. but where is our Lorca? Killed? Transferred to the mirror universe?

It looked like Lorca crossed over the same way Kirk and company did in Mirror Mirror so he was probably on the ISS Buran when it was attacked

hal9550 wrote: »

The Spore Network
Safe to say we now Know why its not in use in the TOS/TNG eras. Even the damage to Stamets aside, its easy to see what happens. Too Risky, etc..

The idea that destroying the mycelial network destroys all life in all of the multiverse is stupid. Someone, somewhere, somewhen would have done it already.

hal9550 wrote: »

The USS Defiant
Sadly we probably wont get to see it, but still curious as to the ramifications of foreknowledge of what will happen in 'the tholian web'

Predestination paradox. Starfleet might have to let it happen in order to not mess with the timeline.

hal9550 wrote: »

ISS Discovery
I think we are likely to hear what has happened to this imperial vessel, and Captain Killy

Captain Killy probably saw there were aliens to fight and had a great time. Speaking of which are we on once in a lifetime uniter of the Klingon Empire number three in the last year? I thought they were supposed to fall apart without a strong leader but they managed to defeat the Federation in nine months.

ezra_

I liked it, however, it did feel a bit rushed compared to the last couple of episodes.

Does anyone else get the sense that the first two episodes and the mirror episodes were written / produced by the same team? They really work and when you look back at the other, non mirror arc episodes, it is like a different, inferior show.

I loved the Tie Fighter nod!

Evade

Did anyone else catch the picture of Earth on the Imperial badges is mirrored for some reason even though none of the other mirror universe depictions of Earth are?

corkie

Star Trek: Discovery episode 13 review: 'What's Past Is Prologue' shows off Mirror-verse Lorca in his element
This is the USS Discovery's story, but Lorca steals the show.

Very enjoyable episode.

Good setup for a 2 Part season finale or will we get some cliffhanger for season 2.

Also do we need some sort of retcon, why it is never mentioned that klingons nearly won the war? As far as I can remember. Or as Evade stated some sort of time travel to put things right.



Edit: - If you haven't had enough of parallel dimension, why not checkout Counterpart | IMDb link.

Spear

ezra_ wrote: »

I liked it, however, it did feel a bit rushed compared to the last couple of episodes.

Does anyone else get the sense that the first two episodes and the mirror episodes were written / produced by the same team? They really work and when you look back at the other, non mirror arc episodes, it is like a different, inferior show.

I loved the Tie Fighter nod!

It took a while, but it's pretty clear now that the entire show was all planned in advance as a single cohesive arc, which is a major departure from the prior episodic shows. I think it's the better for it too. The episodes that didn't play a major part in the overall arc played their part by helping to disguise it.

Though this then means that the single spore floating onto Tilly will have significance down the line.

Though my original prediction of Jason Isaacs only being signed on for a single season is now proven correct, though not quite for the reason I thought.

I also note that primeLandry was always primeLandry and just a good little stormtrooper.

Slydice

It was good. Didn't feel as good as last weeks.

I'm guessing we're gonna see some more time travel or universe jumping ahead.

PhiloCypher

Conflicted feelings on this one, while the Mirror Lorca reveal lent the first 12 episodes an extra layer of rewatchability, it also drained what had been a pretty interesting character of any depth. Turning what had seemed to be a deeply damaged(by the loss of the Buran) but tactically brilliant captain into a fairly one note villain once he returned to his own universe. If Lorca is indeed dead (im not convinced despite his fate in this ep and Isaac's own words,he's lied before) then we've also lost one of the shows strongest actors.

On the flipside Saru and the rest of the crew really come into their own in this episode with multiple bridge crew getting 'actual' lines :eek:, so there looks to be life and even complete sentences after Lorca. Hopefully this new status quo holds and Saru becomes treks first alien captain for the duration of the show(yes I know we've seen alien captains before, but not on the ship the show is based on), after some growing pains in the ep 'Choose your pain' where he stepped in after Lorca was captured, he's really grown into the role and deserves to keep it. My hope is that with the Mirror stuff out of the way and hopefully the open conflict with the Klingons resolved in the next 2 episodes, the show can slow down and do some good old fashioned exploring (at warp velocities hopefully)

Sidenotes: * What sort of role do the writers have in mind for Emperor Georgiu in the prime universe. It would be kinda bizarre to rescue her in this episode only to kill her 2 episodes later, but stranger things have happened. Based on the previews of the next ep they are clearly going to tap into her tactical nous to fight the klingons. Maybe her insight into Klingon culture and their territory from her universe will allow her/them to target infrastructure important to their war effort and she'll commandeer a ship and go on a suicide run.

* The previously on this episode also provided another possible nod to Lorca's MU nature(intentional or not) when he tried to assauge Burnhams fears over seeing Georgiu again by saying "She's not your Georgiu" rather then "not ours". Maybe I'm overthinking it but there felt like there was a double meaning there to me.

Evade

PhiloCypher wrote: »

On the flipside Saru and the rest of the crew really come into their own in this episode with multiple bridge crew getting 'actual' lines :eek:

It was a very Star Trek bridge battle scene alright. Something that stood out was Saru calling everyone by name. I hadn't noticed before but Lorca didn't seem to do this.

fxotoole

Great episode, good to see all the story threads come together, although it was a little rushed and should have been split into 2 episodes.

Georgiou will come in handy in the fight against the klingons.

coffee_cake

ahh that was brilliant ahhh

hal9550

Yea iv rewatched it twice - really am impressed although saddened by Lorca being gone - i really REALLY hope he is back.. in one form or another .. or another??!!??

pinkypinky

Another stonker. This is fast becoming my favourite Star Trek ever. So many angles. Where's the other Lorca? Tilly & the single spore. What is Burnham thinking taking back Georgiou - could she captain the Discovery instead of Saru?

fritzelly

Spear wrote: »

It took a while, but it's pretty clear now that the entire show was all planned in advance as a single cohesive arc.

It was announced early on that it would be a series arc and not really individual episodes

Was the explanation for Lorca that they swapped during a coincidental teleportation of both of them?

Curious - there seemed to be a lot of shots focusing on Detmer...don't remember her being that much front and center

Someone mentioned there's the reason why the network is not used in any other series - don't see what that is, they can still use it as it's now repairing...but what happened to Tilly at the end...

Owryan

Did I miss something with Tilly at the end?

fritzelly

Owryan wrote: »

Did I miss something with Tilly at the end?

Yes

Evade

Owryan wrote: »

Did I miss something with Tilly at the end?

A luminous green spore landed on her shoulder and dissolved into her uniform. Spores are normally blue so it probably means she'll become the avatar of the mycelial network or something.

OldMrBrennan83

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Owryan

Evade wrote: »

A luminous green spore landed on her shoulder and dissolved into her uniform. Spores are normally blue so it probably means she'll become the avatar of the mycelial network or something.

Cheers, I saw that but made nothing of it. My bad.

Have to say after ds9 this is proving to be my favourite trek

Goodshape

Wow! That was amazing!!

Liiitle bit of clunky exposition and tecnobabble stood out in the first half but everything else was great.

Didn't think Lorca would go out like that. Figured Jason Isaacs was probably a one season actor but thought he'd hang around for the next two episodes at least.

No Ash/Voq in this episode at all. I'm fine with that.

The fighting in the hallway was fantastic. As was the fighting in the thrown room, and the ship-to-ship / bridge action. All really well done.

So, no more Lorca! Captain Saru! Klingons... won the war?!

Honestly not sure where they're going with the Klingons and the different/fractured reality. This could be it now for the rest of the series? It gives them the freedom to be different, lots of war and action, still have a 'traditional' Starfleet ship and crew in the centre of it all.

The_Valeyard

Great episode. Crew really coming together for her 'Maiden Voyage'.

Great ending. Doubt its the end of Lorca, have a feeling.

Really good special effects and finally great to see much more of the Discovery in action. Shes an ugly ship, but its growing on me.

Captain Saru feels right, it even comes across as old Trek.

fxotoole

I’d say the next season will involve the crew of the discovery leading a rebellion against the Klingons. Admiral Cornwell will probably feature heavily as one of the leaders of the resistance. The two Klingons in the brig could be used as leverage/bargaining chips also

The_Valeyard

fxotoole wrote: »

I’d say the next season will involve the crew of the discovery leading a rebellion against the Klingons. Admiral Cornwell will probably feature heavily as one of the leaders of the resistance. The two Klingons in the brig could be used as leverage/bargaining chips also

Im thinking an auld time warp, bring them back to the point they left. Fix the timeline, end of Klingon war with a stalemate and the newly formed Neutral zone, Season two, start fresh with good auld warp drive exploration

Goodshape

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Im thinking an auld time warp, bring them back to the point they left. Fix the timeline, end of Klingon war with a stalemate and the newly formed Neutral zone, Season two, start fresh with good auld warp drive exploration

That's what I had thought might happen when they returned from the MU, although I assumed it would be the last episode in the season.

As it stands, I can't really see them spending just two episodes in this new timeline before undoing it all. That might feel a little pointless.

But if they're stuck here, that's freedom to depart a bit more from canon and have lots of space battles along the way.

Either that or they continue to leap around time and dimensions looking for the way home.


Although I would prefer your ideas tbh.

bogwalrus

I get the feeling since Phillipa is back now they can't get rid of her until end of second season at the earliest. My guess is that she will be part of the plot to fight off Klingon's while they use the micelium to go back in time.

I don't think the writers are planning on rewriting star trek lore. This also makes me think that they might go back in time to when lorca first came to their universe and stop him then. If that happens then I think they would have stopped experimenting on the tardigrade and never have discovered the potential of the micelium network.

corkie

bogwalrus wrote: »

..... If that happens then I think they would have stopped experimenting on the tardigrade and never have discovered the potential of the micelium network.

That would not stop experimentation of the network, as Paul Stamets in both universes where working on it, even without Lorca involved, he just sped things along in the prime.