Teacher shortage - how are schools coping?

mirrorwall14

dory wrote: »

I've Irish, would love to live anywhere near Dublin but can't due to house/rent prices. It's very annoying that I would like to live there but can't, and schools there need Irish teachers.

We're in the commuter belt in the midlands. Many of our teachers live further out towards Mullingar and commute in to the commuter belt to try and alleviate rental prices if thats an option? Not ideal and I completely agree rent is mental but it might get you closer. The commute isn't too bad (as some) because they are at the school before the worst of the traffic

evolving_doors

Might be near a train line .
Mirrorwall gets automatic promotion to Deputy if she sources an Irish teacher :pac:

mirrorwall14

evolving_doors wrote: »

Might be near a train line .
Mirrorwall gets automatic promotion to Deputy if she sources an Irish teacher :pac:

Ha ha! I’d be adored by the Irish Dept who are sick of the chopping and changing each year lol. We actually are on a train line too. Not helping really

Notorious

evolving_doors wrote: »

I know a guy who moved back home to rural cork after 15 years teaching in Dublin to take up a job there. I reckon nobody there saw him coming. Same old story, property in Dublin too expensive.
As mentioned above the story is mixed across the country

I know a woman who did something similar and the rural school let her go after the first year. Decided she was surplus to requirements. She probably would've been in line for an A-post if she stayed at her school in Dublin.

Noveight

First year out with Irish and luckily I've gotten full hours. Since accepting I've gotten 3-4 phonecalls from various principals who got my number from interviewers, wondering if myself or someone I know could start with them.

Postgrad10

What part of the country are you in novenigt? Are the calls all coming from a particular area?

Dunne_bkill

First year out and not even a sniff of an interview. Desperately looking for subbing now to try and keep me ticking over. Fairly depressing putting effort into applications etc and hearing nothing.

mtoutlemonde

Dunne_bkill wrote: »

First year out and not even a sniff of an interview. Desperately looking for subbing now to try and keep me ticking over. Fairly depressing putting effort into applications etc and hearing nothing.

Unfortunately you will have to get used to it and even when called to interview, they may not get back to you!!!! Unprifessionism at its finest.

deiseindublin

Dunne_bkill wrote: »

First year out and not even a sniff of an interview. Desperately looking for subbing now to try and keep me ticking over. Fairly depressing putting effort into applications etc and hearing nothing.

Put up your general area and if you primary/secondary here and you should get a few PMs.

If you are within reach of Dublin, PM me and I can tell you of a few schools looking for second level subs.

Jane98

Dunne_bkill wrote: »

First year out and not even a sniff of an interview. Desperately looking for subbing now to try and keep me ticking over. Fairly depressing putting effort into applications etc and hearing nothing.

I'm 7 years teaching and have only had 1 interview all summer which was Friday and I haven't heard anything from that.

What annoys me most is being asked to completed 8 pages of a school's own application form, copy it with all your professional qualifications, references, teaching council etc x 4 times which takes considerable time and money and schools do not still have the respect to reply to you or answer a query in relation to your application. Unprofessionalism at its finest!

Noveight

Postgrad10 wrote: »

What part of the country are you in novenigt? Are the calls all coming from a particular area?

I'm from the West myself. Big competition for Irish jobs there and little chance of a decent post for anyone without experience/pull. All calls coming from the South East, where I'm working now myself.

gaiscioch

Four very active teachers in our Dublin school did not return this week. Three of them got jobs at home, while one gave up secure employment to move home and look for a job. In all cases the cost of property in Dublin was the deciding factor, with the much higher childcare costs also critical in the decision of two of them to move.

Forget the increments; moving beyond the Pale to buy a house is the biggest pay rise you could give yourself. And you'll feel it every week when you look at your disposable income. It's not just teachers who are suffering because of this - Dublin is full of workers who have very little disposable income after accommodation costs, never mind adding childcare costs. Instead of imitating the English policy vis-á-vis teachers in London by giving public servants in Dublin a bonus for working here, would it be too much to hope that some government of this state could plan to distribute the economic and political resources of the state more evenly and therefore take the pressure off so many people working and living in Dublin, along with employers who are struggling to fill Dublin vacancies because of the high accommodation costs? And all while regenerating parts of rural Ireland. A win-win situation for most of us.

In our school the chaos of these late departures from Dublin is compounded by other teachers exercising their right to paternity and other unpaid leave for a few months this year. So not only is the school looking for new teachers, but it can only offer them a contract for a few months. On top of this, the principal was telling us that over the summer four vacancies were accepted and in the past two weeks declined as the interview candidates got a school nearer to home/outside Dublin. In the staffroom the upshot of this is that teachers are teaching subjects they don't normally teach and are losing subjects they do teach in order to make up the shortfall in those subjects, and they don't know what they'll be teaching when the teacher on leave comes back mid-year. And last year's huge difficulty in finding substitute teachers seems even more obvious already this year.

I wholeheartedly agree with people's earlier opposition here to certain schools expecting teachers to fill out 10-page school-specific application forms - often for a job that is taken already and for which the candidate's 10-page application will not even be acknowledged. A certain new secondary school in Greystones did that about three years with all its positions. Clear contempt for teachers' time. I look forward to school principals who do that finding it especially difficult to recruit teachers.

Mountainsandh

The current system of late interviews and allocation of jobs is so wrong.
Regardless of contract starting date, applications and interviews could be held early, that would allow for better planning for the year ahead from all sides.
In the case of an autism unit* just starting in September for example, it is wrong on so many levels that there should be no teacher in place from the previous May/June. The needs of students should come first really, it simply is poor practice to have a school completely unprepared because staff recruitment was delayed.

*hypothetically

Dunne_bkill

deiseindublin wrote:

Put up your general area and if you primary/secondary here and you should get a few PMs.

If you are within reach of Dublin, PM me and I can tell you of a few schools looking for second level subs.

Thanks for this I may do so in the future but I think I may have secured some subbing down the country already.

On a other note I just filled in the longest application form I've seen yet. 16 pages of really complicated questions. There will be a lot of applicants for this job it feels hopeless.

Dave0301

Mountainsandh wrote: »

The current system of late interviews and allocation of jobs is so wrong.
Regardless of contract starting date, applications and interviews could be held early, that would allow for better planning for the year ahead from all sides.
In the case of an autism unit* just starting in September for example, it is wrong on so many levels that there should be no teacher in place from the previous May/June. The needs of students should come first really, it simply is poor practice to have a school completely unprepared because staff recruitment was delayed.

*hypothetically

Just to follow up on this point. I moved over to the UK after graduating as I was offered a full time contract straight away. Due to the type of school that I work in though, I am required to give a full term of notice.

Due to the way schools in Ireland advertise and interview it would mean that I would have to leave a full time job and hope to pick up something during the summer.

The uncertainty is not appealing!

man_no_plan

In an ideal world all jobs would be appointed in june , in the real world the knock on effect of teacher movement as described above leaves many schools only needing to fill some positions now.

I know a teacher who was interviewed and accepted a job at the end of June but only contacted the school last week to tell them they would be leaving. Whatever about someone only being appointed last week, that's a bit unfair, if not to the principal to the kids in the school.

There will be plenty more movement up to October I'd say.

Mountainsandh

man_no_plan wrote: »

In an ideal world all jobs would be appointed in june , in the real world the knock on effect of teacher movement as described above leaves many schools only needing to fill some positions now.

I know a teacher who was interviewed and accepted a job at the end of June but only contacted the school last week to tell them they would be leaving. Whatever about someone only being appointed last week, that's a bit unfair, if not to the principal to the kids in the school.

There will be plenty more movement up to October I'd say.

There would be a lot less teacher movement and uncertainty were the rules simply that all teacher appointments take place in May/June, and only subbing short-short term contracts are available in September. All parties would simply have to adapt, to the benefit of children.

man_no_plan

Mountainsandh wrote: »

There would be a lot less teacher movement and uncertainty were the rules simply that all teacher appointments take place in May/June, and only subbing short-short term contracts are available in September. All parties would simply have to adapt, to the benefit of children.

But you can't have an interview until a vacancy exists! A vacancy can't exist until someone takes a job somewhere else in many cases.

Mountainsandh

man_no_plan wrote: »

But you can't have an interview until a vacancy exists! A vacancy can't exist until someone takes a job somewhere else in many cases.

Maternity leaves, new posts, are often predictable, even illness in the case of someone due to have an operation in say, October.
In my school there was a post for which recruitment need was officially confirmed from the end of April. People got appointed last Friday, more than 4 months later !

Postgrad10

There is a problem with people accepting a couple of jobs back in May/ June and letting schools know last minute. I met a girl who had accepted positions in 2 schools in June but she was telling me she'd be letting them go in August when she got somewhere better. I don't blame people for taking something closer to home which is more financially viable though. But letting schools think they are sorted and letting them down at the last minute isn't on.

mtoutlemonde

Postgrad10 wrote: »

There is a problem with people accepting a couple of jobs back in May/ June and letting schools know last minute. I met a girl who had accepted positions in 2 schools in June but she was telling me she'd be letting them go in August when she got somewhere better. I don't blame people for taking something closer to home which is more financially viable though. But letting schools think they are sorted and letting them down at the last minute isn't on.

I agree with everything you say but to some principals you are disposable and if they have no work for you - off you go - you were useful while you were here!! Think about how many job applications you have applied for not to get a response, how many interviews have you attended without even the professionalism and decency to let you know you have been unsuccessful. Also look at the sly ways ETBs get themselves out of awarding CID contracts. It's time teacher's looked after number one.

Mountainsandh

I suppose the solution to this complete mess would be real/efficient emergency subbing panels, and a complete ban on recruitment over the summer.
Principals would simply have to plan and manage staff resources earlier and more efficiently.

Back in France my brother in law is a professional sub (primary). He's fully qualified, but with reasonable financial incentives, he was enticed to enrol on the panel. His assignments are all within a certain radius, no minimum duration, just whatever is needed at the time. He likes the novelty of visiting different schools at no financial loss, is rarely idle, doesn't have the burden of yearly planning.

mtoutlemonde

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I suppose the solution to this complete mess would be real/efficient emergency subbing panels, and a complete ban on recruitment over the summer.
Principals would simply have to plan and manage staff resources earlier and more efficiently.

Back in France my brother in law is a professional sub (primary). He's fully qualified, but with reasonable financial incentives, he was enticed to enrol on the panel. His assignments are all within a certain radius, no minimum duration, just whatever is needed at the time. He likes the novelty of visiting different schools at no financial loss, is rarely idle, doesn't have the burden of yearly planning.

That sounds like a fantastic idea - wouldn't mind that at all - at least your experience would mean something. There was meant to be a panel set up for second level but obviously that was just a soundbite.

One of the major solutions to the problem would be for schools to offer better contracts - I think it was the VFT page where someone was considering taking 3 periods a week for LS - now if that is not an insult to a professional I don't know what it.

Postgrad10

Did anyone else find that principals at interview don't take subbing seriously? It's like they assume you just come in and watch the students for a bit instead of actually teaching the group you are covering for.

mtoutlemonde

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Did anyone else find that principals at interview don't take subbing seriously? It's like they assume you just come in and watch the students for a bit instead of actually teaching the group you are covering for.

Never had that as I've always had long term periods in my subjects but I can't see why they wouldn't take it seriously - you have been able to control substitution classes and that's more difficult than teaching. Now correcting for SEC has never been given much attention for me.

Mountainsandh

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

That sounds like a fantastic idea - wouldn't mind that at all - at least your experience would mean something. There was meant to be a panel set up for second level but obviously that was just a soundbite.
.

I forgot to mention that he had a full time job even prior to that, he had a post ! Whatever way it is set up, they just made it attractive enough for him to relinquish that post.
At the moment I think he's in a special school with tough cases (probably a lot of sick leave in these schools), but he loves the challenge of it, and the fact that he's got the certainty it is temporary.
It's not really costing him more in petrol since his original school was within the same radius (I think 40 or 50 km away from home max).

Eimee90

It's very depressing. I'm five years out with English and History degree as well as Learning Support and when I re-interviewed for my job in the South of the Country after teaching there for the year, I never heard back from the school again despite getting a good reference and great feedback throughout the year. My heart is broken finding myself without anything for September again.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Eimee90 wrote: »

It's very depressing. I'm five years out with English and History degree as well as Learning Support and when I re-interviewed for my job in the South of the Country after teaching there for the year, I never heard back from the school again despite getting a good reference and great feedback throughout the year. My heart is broken finding myself without anything for September again.

That's terrible , if it's any consolation , no doubt that it's someone who knows someone who got the job.

man_no_plan

Athena Cool Rambler wrote: »

That's terrible , if it's any consolation , no doubt that it's someone who knows someone who got the job.

Rosebush, I'm sorry but you can't just say things like that.

Of course it's hard for the poster who wasn't reappointed and on the face of it she should have gotten the job.

No offence to them but based on one side of the story you simply state this 'fact' and then everyone feels better.

I'm sure it can and does happen. But everyone who doesn't get a job doesn't not get it because of pull/ nepotism / cronyism or whatever you want to call it.

There is no job anywhere where an employer doesn't get to make a decision on who to appoint based on some criteria that we may or may not like (once it's not pull etc) and it's a criterion that is included in the job spec as desirable, it shouldn't be an issue.

The problem with the last point is that schools are often recruiting under pressure and are copying and pasting ads and specs that may limit the transparency of the final outcome.

Whatever the reason I hope you get sorted with work soon poster. See can you get feedback from the school and go from there.

Blaizes

Eimee90 wrote: »

It's very depressing. I'm five years out with English and History degree as well as Learning Support and when I re-interviewed for my job in the South of the Country after teaching there for the year, I never heard back from the school again despite getting a good reference and great feedback throughout the year. My heart is broken finding myself without anything for September again.

Go back to the school and ask for written feedback.If it's an ETB you can get a break down of your marks for the different areas, five I think or it used to be.I don't know how it works in other types of secondary schools though and if they use an interview marking sheet and certain criteria.

Don't be too hard on yourself, it can be a bit of a minefield.I'm subbing this year after being at home with kids for a few years.I haven't even bothered applying for jobs and have just registered for substitute teaching.Some schools don't even reply to job applications and can be very deficient in terms of HR management.Don't let it get to you.Good luck!