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Teacher shortage - how are schools coping?

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    #542
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Ya I suppose. In fairness, Home Ec. does pretty much stick to the curve.


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    #543
    2xj3hplqgsbkym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭2xj3hplqgsbkym


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Apologies, I thought you meant students sitting the LC got higher grades/points from doing H.Ec. over the other subjects.

    But my suggestion might still stand though, if it wasn't an attractive subject as it currently is (by tightening up on H1s,2s,3s) then it would eventually reduce classes and the pressure to get extra teachers. Our HE teachers are up the walls with just that subject. They'd be happy to do their other subject also.
    Some of its competing subjects options have relatively low numbers in their classes for that reason.

    Also the number of students allowed per home ec class is less than a lot of others (21 I think is the union directive!). Whereas you could easily have 30 in a languages class! That won't change though.




    Ohhhh yes it does :pac: look at H1s in biology this year compared to last year.

    Not all subjects bother adhering to the bell curve either.
    Only 3.2 % got H 1 in home ec, a lot lower than many option subjects.


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    #544
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    what's the starting salary for a new entrant teacher these days, and what would a new entrant teacher be on say after 10 years ?


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    #545
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    what's the starting salary for a new entrant teacher these days, and what would a new entrant teacher be on say after 10 years ?

    https://www.tui.ie/welcome-to-our-website/common-basic-scale-post-1111.5778.html


    Here is the salary scale. Assuming full hours a teacher would start on just under 36k. After 10 years, again assuming full employment for those 10 years, 48k.


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    #546
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    rainbowtrout wrote: »


    Here is the salary scale. Assuming full hours a teacher would start on just under 36k. After 10 years, again assuming full employment for those 10 years, 48k.

    Thanks. They are not in it for the money so. I don't think I'd ever have the patience for it.


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    #547
    Seannew1
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Seannew1


    There was a decrease in arts courses in cao results today!


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    #548
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    Seannew1 wrote: »
    There was a decrease in arts courses in cao results today!

    Arts in MIC was 415-ish when I was looking at it in 2010-2011. It’s now 320. Árse has fallen out of it completely.


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    #549
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Thanks. They are not in it for the money so. I don't think I'd ever have the patience for it.

    No definitely not. And few teachers start on full salary. So a teacher on half hours, or doing a 6 month maternity leave on full hours but with no other work for that year will earn 18k. That's not the bit that's ever highlighted by the media.

    Half hours is only equivalent to half a year of experience. So two years of half hours would have to be completed to allow a teacher to move up one point on the salary scale. So many teachers would not reach 48k after 10 years. 48k is the textbook example.


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    #550
    trihead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭trihead


    Re Home Economics

    The graduates of the new course - Professional Diploma in Home Economics - in 18 months will help I guess in time. Thought capped at 16 students.

    http://www.stangelas.nuigalway.ie/news_details.php?id=601


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    #551
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    trihead wrote: »
    Re Home Economics

    The graduates of the new course - Professional Diploma in Home Economics - in 18 months will help I guess in time. Thought capped at 16 students.

    http://www.stangelas.nuigalway.ie/news_details.php?id=601

    It's a load of balls really. It's a full time course, so a current teacher would have to take 2 years career break to complete the course - and if they are fully employed I can't see the benefit of going on career break to do this unless they have an absolute burning desire to teach home ec, and an unemployed teacher looking to upskill probably will struggle to pay for it. Can't honestly see how they are going to fill it.


    Fees for the full time course are as follows:

    Year 1 (September 2018 – May 2019): €7500

    Year 2 (September 2019 – January 2020): €3750


    Who's got €11250 handy to pay for this course, and move to sligo to attend, while earning zero money from teaching for two years?


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    #552
    happywithlife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    As a teacher who has subbed on many mat contracts can I just point out to those who constantly say there's loads if jobs in Home Ec - there are but the vast majority are mat leave contracts of no use long term to a new graduate. And a lot of fixed term are for poxy hours. I keep a nosey eye on all the adverts on education posts ;-D and have seen home ec fixed term for 4 hrs 6 hrs and a he'll of a lot of 11 hour contracts.
    Its not the bees knees some seem to think it is


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    #553
    trihead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭trihead


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It's a load of balls really. It's a full time course, so a current teacher would have to take 2 years career break to complete the course - and if they are fully employed I can't see the benefit of going on career break to do this unless they have an absolute burning desire to teach home ec, and an unemployed teacher looking to upskill probably will struggle to pay for it. Can't honestly see how they are going to fill it.


    Fees for the full time course are as follows:

    Year 1 (September 2018 – May 2019): €7500

    Year 2 (September 2019 – January 2020): €3750


    Who's got €11250 handy to pay for this course, and move to sligo to attend, while earning zero money from teaching for two years?

    You might be right - they might have trouble filling it - but I read the second year is blended delivery (Online and some face to face) so I think you might only have to take a one year career break to do the course.


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    #554
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    And a lot of people who would consider that Home Ec course are people who've already done a three years arts course, two years teaching course, and the realised their subjects aren't in demand and want to upskill. But realistically, they won't be able to fork out another €11k.


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    #555
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Thanks. They are not in it for the money so. I don't think I'd ever have the patience for it.


    You forgot about grinds ... or are they are known as gaelige :

    carr nua arïs


    and none of your tdi blue-eco muck, good holy christian petrol so you can listen to it purring while stuck in traffic - powered by the tears of those who didn't take your quality grinds


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    #556
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    I don't think we should be discouraging students from doing a subject that they like and want to do just because of the shortage of teachers. Government should be looking at ways of increasing the numbers of Home Ec teachers not discouraging students.

    And if students deserve the H1 they should get it. They shouldn't be penalised because there is a teacher shortage.



    20 is the recommended max class size for home ec. Again, students shouldn't be discouraged from practical subjects just because non practical subjects can accommodate them. Because we can, doesn't mean we should. Not everyone is cut out to be a linguist.





    No they don't. But some subjects are prone to that. Students don't take physics or applied maths because they are 'hard'. Students that take them tend not to take them for the craic or because it'll be 'grand', they take them because they have good mathematical aptitude and have a liking for the subject, which makes it far more likely that they'll be good at it, which leads to a higher percentage of H1/H2 grades.

    Not so much in more accessible/general subjects like geography or business where you get a greater spread of the general student population and are more likely to get results panning out similar to the bell curve.

    I would agree to a certain extent except for Biology. More students take biology than take HL Irish so it should fit a bell curve. It is seen as the ‘easy’ science when everyone in the country is advising students to take a science. In addition last year it was practically a bell curve, this year it has suddenly skewed to match Physics and Chemistrys skewed graphs by DOUBLING its H1 percentage even though physics is considered ‘hard’, has a much smaller cohort and is generally taken due to aptitude so one would expect it’s curve to be different. I cannot see this being the reason why biology would be making such a massive shift in just one year.


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    #557
    happywithlife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    How did they get away with doubling the H1 in biology though? I correct in my subject area and they are So tight on the bell curve


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    #558
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    happywithlife wrote: »
    How did they get away with doubling the H1 in biology though? I correct in my subject area and they are So tight on the bell curve

    Poorly formulated exam?
    Government's drive for science graduates? Biotechnology, bioinfomatics etc are all big employers here.


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    #559
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Poorly formulated exam?
    Government's drive for science graduates? Biotechnology, bioinfomatics etc are all big employers here.

    I’m guessing the latter as generally a poor paper is adjusted for by marking schemes


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    #560
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Poorly formulated exam?
    Government's drive for science graduates? Biotechnology, bioinfomatics etc are all big employers here.

    I’m guessing the latter as generally a poor paper is adjusted for by marking schemes

    Yes it usually is but what if this was too difficult to do because it was very poorly constructed.


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    #561
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Yes it usually is but what if this was too difficult to do because it was very poorly constructed.

    I’m thinking back to the early project maths papers where there full new marking schemes issued and revisions until they got what they needed on the curve. This is very very odd by comparison


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    #562
    Wexford96
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭Wexford96


    A relative, who is a very experienced and articulate Irish teacher applied for two Irish teaching jobs and was offered neither.
    I was quite surprised, as teachers of secondary irish are supposed to be so scarce currently? They were good jobs, with full hours in good schools.
    Maybe there's a shortage in hard to reach schools with weak management and poorer working conditions? And excellent schools have no problem getting staff?


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    #563
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Wexford96 wrote: »
    A relative, who is a very experienced and articulate Irish teacher applied for two Irish teaching jobs and was offered neither.
    I was quite surprised, as teachers of secondary irish are supposed to be so scarce currently? They were good jobs, with full hours in good schools.
    Maybe there's a shortage in hard to reach schools with weak management and poorer working conditions? And excellent schools have no problem getting staff?

    They were probably interviews where a teacher already worked in the position.


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    #564
    TheBody
    Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭TheBody


    Wexford96 wrote: »
    A relative, who is a very experienced and articulate Irish teacher applied for two Irish teaching jobs and was offered neither.
    I was quite surprised, as teachers of secondary irish are supposed to be so scarce currently? They were good jobs, with full hours in good schools.
    Maybe there's a shortage in hard to reach schools with weak management and poorer working conditions? And excellent schools have no problem getting staff?


    My wife has had a similar experience. She is fully qualified Irish with 12 years full-time experience. She interviewed for a job closer to home and didn't get it. There definitely was a job there as we have a contact in the school.

    Luckily she has a CID in her current school, so it's not the end of the world.


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    #565
    Wexford96
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭Wexford96


    Yes. Seems all the column inches about teacher shortages may have been hyperbolic. Good your wife got a job.


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    #566
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Wexford96 wrote: »
    Yes. Seems all the column inches about teacher shortages may have been hyperbolic. Good your wife got a job.

    The shortages have always been subject and location specific. Much harder get a job in the west and competition can be very high with experienced teachers looking to move home whereas commuter belt schools are in trouble

    Edit: and if the Irish teacher is commuter belt area PM me, our school needs Irish


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    #567
    Postgrad10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    Word out to ETBs/Voluntary schools. At least let candidates who interviewed for positions know they didn't get it. Generic email will do .


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    #568
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    TheBody wrote: »
    My wife has had a similar experience. She is fully qualified Irish with 12 years full-time experience. She interviewed for a job closer to home and didn't get it. There definitely was a job there as we have a contact in the school.

    Luckily she has a CID in her current school, so it's not the end of the world.

    Might be interesting to see who did get it in the end.


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    #569
    TheBody
    Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭TheBody


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Might be interesting to see who did get it in the end.

    Yea, we can make enquiries when term kicks off.

    We have no hard feelings if the better candidate got the job. Just thought it was interesting.


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    #570
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    I know a guy who moved back home to rural cork after 15 years teaching in Dublin to take up a job there. I reckon nobody there saw him coming. Same old story, property in Dublin too expensive.
    As mentioned above the story is mixed across the country


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    #571
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »

    Edit: and if the Irish teacher is commuter belt area PM me, our school needs Irish

    I've Irish, would love to live anywhere near Dublin but can't due to house/rent prices. It's very annoying that I would like to live there but can't, and schools there need Irish teachers.


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