What % of pple on the dole deserve to be on it?

The_Brood

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

Jim Bob Scratcher

First dole thread of the new year :pac:

colm_mcm

I’d say around 25%

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Are there apples on the dole?

Victor

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate?

You can't get unemployment-related payments if you can't work, so your initial idea is rather off.

boombang

The_Brood wrote: »

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....

Let me guess, you've read all the other threads on this issue?

Only messing. I think this is an important topic. I dislike walking past youths at my local "training" centre smoking joints at 9 in the morning as I go to work.

I don't believe in labour market activation. The gap between working and being on the dole should be more than enough activation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

What percentage of the 3% long term unemployed? 60,000 people in total. Maybe 95%+.

But it all depends on your definition of deserves and if the dole is something anybody deserves to be on.

I used to work in a related area and the majority of ppl I dealt with were either fit for work but didn't suit them to - eg single mothers where they'd never earn enough to make up for housing benefits and cover childcare costs- or were unfit for work due to a fondness for drink

6 or 7 from ten would have been in the above categories.

This was at the height of the boom. The demographics changed as things got worse and youd see more ppl who'd always worked and had come on hard times, but at best there were still four from ten or so who had come from a background of getting everything on a plate and settling for the life that was in it.

NB I don't say it was a good life or that they were happy!

Chrongen

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

You don't get the fcuking dole if you are disabled.

MilesMorales1

A Dole thread on AH? How original.

B.A._Baracus

93.65464.2%

Sorry that I couldn't be more specific.

Wanderer78

thankfully we ve fully solved all the issues that cause unemployment, its time to hunt them all off the dole and live our utopian dream:rolleyes:

RobbingBandit

We including children's allowance here too OP

WELL ARE WE.

splinter65

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

People with severe mental/physical disabilities don’t get the dole. Go back and check your facts.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

And, nobody 'deserves' to be on the dole.

retro:electro

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

A Dole thread on AH? How original.

These kinds of comments aren't very original either to be fair

Irishsneachta

You don't even know what you're talking about when you say people with severe disability be on the dole. At least research before you whinge. Are you on the dole or sick yourself? Seem to have a lot of time on your hands.

qwerty ui op

The_Brood wrote: »

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

I'm not o.k with it but I can tell you, that i'll never, not in a million years even look in that general direction, until such time as we know:

who are the rich ?

and

what are they doing with their money?
there should be a 5-10 minute segment on this every night on the news.

the_pen_turner

10% max

spindex

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

93.65464.2%

Sorry that I couldn't be more specific.

You were doing well until you put in the second decimal point.

Zaph

The_Brood wrote: »

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

So what you're saying is that someone who has access to this information is freely sharing it with you, and others no doubt, has no problem breaching the Data Protection Act? I'd be interested to know what other information this person is sharing, and with whom.

MilesMorales1

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

So you have someone leaking personal confidential information to you? That a pretty serious claim to make, if it was a real thing and not something you've invented.

Grab All Association

I shall now call AGS, DSP and the DPC. Boards.ie will have no problem I imagine giving your information to AGS when requested to track you down and find out who is leaking data on DSP clients to you.

I suggest you wear pants at all times otherwise you’ll be arrested in your underwear.

RiderOnTheStorm

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

Wanderer78

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

id take those figures with a pinch of salt, all highly subjective and easily manipulated

RiderOnTheStorm

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

It was around 4% and they didn't include a raft of cohorts including the drinkers, those on courses, those unable to work, etc etc etc


The rest of ye- summarised information is not under data protection as a rule would ye lie down ffs

RiderOnTheStorm

Wanderer78 wrote:

id take those figures with a pinch of salt, all highly subjective and easily manipulated

Yea, and unemployed does not equate to dole, but thought the figure interesting...

Victor

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

No. "Unemployed" are people in the workforce who want to work and are looking for work. The 2-4% represents people who are typically short-term between jobs or are structurally unemployed (their skills are for a job that no longer exists).

For statistical purposes, those who can't work are not recorded as "unemployed". Neither are those outside the workforce, e.g. people caring for family, the idle rich, etc.

The "live register" is a different measurement.

Odhinn

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

42.3%. That's allowing for the Sky Sports In Every Room factor.

jimbobalob309

about tree fiddy

corner of hells

Odhinn wrote: »

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

42.3%. That's allowing for the Sky Sports In Every Room factor.

I'm writing all this down.
They haven't gone away.... ahh feck ,wrong thread.

Odhinn

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm writing all this down.
They haven't gone away.... ahh feck ,wrong thread.

Is it just me or does this line make you think he's going to link the whole thing to aliens, or maybe the lizard people?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

worded

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

93.65464.2%

Sorry that I couldn't be more specific.

85% of male smokers who try Camel go back to women

Annasopra

I know someone who knows someone too!

I hope the OPs friends friend isnt breaking data protection laws by the way. Like all Dole office looking up Dolores McNamara

Fr_Dougal

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I know someone who knows someone too!

I hope the OPs friends friend isnt breaking data protection laws by the way. Like all Dole office looking up Dolores McNamara

Mrs OBumble

Chrongen wrote: »

You don't get the fcuking dole if you are disabled.

Yes you can.

All you need to do is say you are ready willing and able to work. If you say that, then welfare will give you the dole. If they suspect you're telling porkies they can apply tests (call you to interviews, send you to courses etc) but AFAIKA they canmot send you to a doctor to certify your fitness.

Most disabled people who qualify for disability would rather get it, and so voluntarily go to a doctor for a cert saying they can't work. But some lack self awareness and really believe they will get a job. So you get a few on the dole.

No idea what the proportion is here.

thebourke

i lost my job before xmas..signed on to dole lasy week...first time in 14 years that i have had to sign on...
social welfare guy was very helpfil..i asked him is there mnay people signing on now..he said its busy..he says problem now is that companies not offering proper work contracts!of course you will always have certain people who will never work and will always be on the dole.
Actually one on my friends has been on the dole for years!!!totally useless.

worded

thebourke wrote: »

i lost my job before xmas..signed on to dole lasy week...first time in 14 years that i have had to sign on...
social welfare guy was very helpfil..i asked him is there mnay people signing on now..he said its busy..he says problem now is that companies not offering proper work contracts!of course you will always have certain people who will never work and will always be on the dole.
Actually one on my friends has been on the dole for years!!!totally useless.

Best of luck getting replacement work. Update cv and network etc

glomar

with no power comes no resposibility .. sorry couldnt resist

doolox

Economies work in very connected ways. Imagine if the dole was reduced to €50 or so per week. The minimum wage at which people would work would also go down unless the Government spent a lot of money enforcing the present day min wage laws. A lot of employers circumvent min wage laws with zero hour contracts, casual working arrangements and unpaid activities vital to their workers input such as not paying delivery drivers while waiting to unload/load their trucks, not paying travel time or for forced overnight stays as part of their job or split shifts often 4 or 5 hours apart where one works 2-3 hours and then are "off" work for 4 hours and back on again for 2-3 hours. Effectively an employer is getting 10 hours attendance at work for 6 hours pay.

Low dole payments would put more intense pressure on legally unprotected benefits accrued by people in work. Those at the bottom would probably suffer the most but everybody all the way up the vocational "food chain" would suffer a reduction in their terms and conditions. This may take time to happen but reducing dole payments would put too much bargaining power in Employers hands and too little in workers hands.

Governments supply food and shelter and basic necessities to non working people otherwise employers would threaten to withdraw these needed things from their work-forces and force them to accept less wages and worse conditions using food and shelter as a very effective terror weapon.

Trouble is that many people have very short memories or the people who live through the hungry 30's and 50's of the last century are no longer around to tell us what it was really like.

Somewhat similar to traffic wardens and clamping.....nobody likes them but try running a road network and transport system without them.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jigglypuffstuff

As many that need it... Consider the catastrophic and highly overpriced public transport system and of development/FDI outside of Dublin and Cork and you've started to touch on the finer details.... combine that with intergenerational unemployment, institutionalised discrimination regards employment practices and constant unrealistic expectations of experience and qualifications for literally any and all jobs.....and then you're starting to see the bigger picture

The notion that people just don't want to work applies to a minority.... even then id argue it's sometimes (not always) a mixture of home environment , regional deprivation , educational disadvantage and improper facilities to allow people reliable on time transportation to and from work

You'd have the subsection again who don't want too ... but again quite small when you isolate factors in my opinion at least

lalababa

There are a pile of people who have been on the Dole for years , rent allowance/ med card/ council house/fuel allowance/ and whatever you're having yourself AND have a sideline business / nickser /job.

NinetyTwoTeam

What % of dole threads are started by absolute f#cktards who have no idea what they're talking about?

How many are so unaware of their own idiocy that they publish it online before even considering that they don't know the difference between the dole and disability payments?

How many of them are simply buffoons who have been lucky enough to never find themselves unemployed, and haven't a clue that the chasm between what our government say about the 'recovery' and what is really happening in our economy is absolutely enormous?

And btw where is the nixer job posting board? I'm on the dole and no one has given me a heads up. I also have been denied fuel allowance, rent allowance, and don't have a council house, I was under the impression I should have all these automatically, but apparently the criteria is different from what boards tells me.

Oranage2

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

What % of dole threads are started by absolute f#cktards who have no idea what they're talking about?

How many are so unaware of their own idiocy that they publish it online before even considering that they don't know the difference between the dole and disability payments?

How many of them are simply buffoons who have been lucky enough to never find themselves unemployed, and haven't a clue that the chasm between what our government say about the 'recovery' and what is really happening in our economy is absolutely enormous?

And btw where is the nixer job posting board? I'm on the dole and no one has given me a heads up. I also have been denied fuel allowance, rent allowance, and don't have a council house, I was under the impression I should have all these automatically, but apparently the criteria is different from what boards tells me.

I don't know why you're getting in such a huff over this thread.

This isn't about people unfortunately losing their job and need some assistance while they look for a new job.

This thread is about what percentage of people on the dole are absolute taking the piss.

spurious

The main change I would like to see to the dole is that it should not be given for nothing. If someone applies without ever having worked, they should be required to do 6-8 weeks work in the community before getting any handouts.

Plenty of physical work out there to be done. Graffiti, dog gik, leaves, litter all need to be cleared. Foliage around road signs removed. Road signs cleaned. Nothing for nothing. School leavers going straight on the dole is disgusting.

Wanderer78

spurious wrote:

Plenty of physical work out there to be done. Graffiti, dog gik, leaves, litter all need to be cleared. Foliage around road signs removed. Road signs cleaned. Nothing for nothing. School leavers going straight on the dole is disgusting.

Maybe our educational system is failing to address their needs, leading to them signing on?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Maybe our educational system is failing to address their needs, leading to them signing on?

That's patently not true when you see the standards achieved in education in this country.

_Roz_

Me ma works for social welfare and I can tell ya there's a lot on there who shouldn't be. One of her neighbours claims a payment he's not entitled to, but because she only knows that outside of work, she can't actually do anything about it.

That said unless it's blatently obvious, I'd usually err on the side of empathy for rather than suspicion of someone's reason for being on the dole, as I was on it for a long time myself once.

Allen Aggressive Reindeer

Allen Aggressive Reindeer wrote: »

That's patently not true when you see the standards achieved in education in this country.

Standards set by the educational community, not by the companies that would be there to employ them.

Education consistently falls behind the actual skills required in the marketplace, especially in technical fields. Consider the amount of training (by the company) that is involved in many industries when someone actually gets a job.

whisky_galore

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

A Dole thread on AH? How original.

Makes a change from the pro-Choice cyclist Gaelgoir Traveller threads.