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What % of pple on the dole deserve to be on it?

The_Brood

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

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Odhinn

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm writing all this down.
They haven't gone away.... ahh feck ,wrong thread.

Is it just me or does this line make you think he's going to link the whole thing to aliens, or maybe the lizard people?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

worded

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

93.65464.2%

Sorry that I couldn't be more specific.

85% of male smokers who try Camel go back to women

Annasopra

I know someone who knows someone too!

I hope the OPs friends friend isnt breaking data protection laws by the way. Like all Dole office looking up Dolores McNamara

Fr_Dougal

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I know someone who knows someone too!

I hope the OPs friends friend isnt breaking data protection laws by the way. Like all Dole office looking up Dolores McNamara

Mrs OBumble

Chrongen wrote: »

You don't get the fcuking dole if you are disabled.

Yes you can.

All you need to do is say you are ready willing and able to work. If you say that, then welfare will give you the dole. If they suspect you're telling porkies they can apply tests (call you to interviews, send you to courses etc) but AFAIKA they canmot send you to a doctor to certify your fitness.

Most disabled people who qualify for disability would rather get it, and so voluntarily go to a doctor for a cert saying they can't work. But some lack self awareness and really believe they will get a job. So you get a few on the dole.

No idea what the proportion is here.

thebourke

i lost my job before xmas..signed on to dole lasy week...first time in 14 years that i have had to sign on...
social welfare guy was very helpfil..i asked him is there mnay people signing on now..he said its busy..he says problem now is that companies not offering proper work contracts!of course you will always have certain people who will never work and will always be on the dole.
Actually one on my friends has been on the dole for years!!!totally useless.

worded

thebourke wrote: »

i lost my job before xmas..signed on to dole lasy week...first time in 14 years that i have had to sign on...
social welfare guy was very helpfil..i asked him is there mnay people signing on now..he said its busy..he says problem now is that companies not offering proper work contracts!of course you will always have certain people who will never work and will always be on the dole.
Actually one on my friends has been on the dole for years!!!totally useless.

Best of luck getting replacement work. Update cv and network etc

glomar

with no power comes no resposibility .. sorry couldnt resist

doolox

Economies work in very connected ways. Imagine if the dole was reduced to €50 or so per week. The minimum wage at which people would work would also go down unless the Government spent a lot of money enforcing the present day min wage laws. A lot of employers circumvent min wage laws with zero hour contracts, casual working arrangements and unpaid activities vital to their workers input such as not paying delivery drivers while waiting to unload/load their trucks, not paying travel time or for forced overnight stays as part of their job or split shifts often 4 or 5 hours apart where one works 2-3 hours and then are "off" work for 4 hours and back on again for 2-3 hours. Effectively an employer is getting 10 hours attendance at work for 6 hours pay.

Low dole payments would put more intense pressure on legally unprotected benefits accrued by people in work. Those at the bottom would probably suffer the most but everybody all the way up the vocational "food chain" would suffer a reduction in their terms and conditions. This may take time to happen but reducing dole payments would put too much bargaining power in Employers hands and too little in workers hands.

Governments supply food and shelter and basic necessities to non working people otherwise employers would threaten to withdraw these needed things from their work-forces and force them to accept less wages and worse conditions using food and shelter as a very effective terror weapon.

Trouble is that many people have very short memories or the people who live through the hungry 30's and 50's of the last century are no longer around to tell us what it was really like.

Somewhat similar to traffic wardens and clamping.....nobody likes them but try running a road network and transport system without them.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jigglypuffstuff

As many that need it... Consider the catastrophic and highly overpriced public transport system and of development/FDI outside of Dublin and Cork and you've started to touch on the finer details.... combine that with intergenerational unemployment, institutionalised discrimination regards employment practices and constant unrealistic expectations of experience and qualifications for literally any and all jobs.....and then you're starting to see the bigger picture

The notion that people just don't want to work applies to a minority.... even then id argue it's sometimes (not always) a mixture of home environment , regional deprivation , educational disadvantage and improper facilities to allow people reliable on time transportation to and from work

You'd have the subsection again who don't want too ... but again quite small when you isolate factors in my opinion at least

lalababa

There are a pile of people who have been on the Dole for years , rent allowance/ med card/ council house/fuel allowance/ and whatever you're having yourself AND have a sideline business / nickser /job.

NinetyTwoTeam

What % of dole threads are started by absolute f#cktards who have no idea what they're talking about?

How many are so unaware of their own idiocy that they publish it online before even considering that they don't know the difference between the dole and disability payments?

How many of them are simply buffoons who have been lucky enough to never find themselves unemployed, and haven't a clue that the chasm between what our government say about the 'recovery' and what is really happening in our economy is absolutely enormous?

And btw where is the nixer job posting board? I'm on the dole and no one has given me a heads up. I also have been denied fuel allowance, rent allowance, and don't have a council house, I was under the impression I should have all these automatically, but apparently the criteria is different from what boards tells me.

Oranage2

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

What % of dole threads are started by absolute f#cktards who have no idea what they're talking about?

How many are so unaware of their own idiocy that they publish it online before even considering that they don't know the difference between the dole and disability payments?

How many of them are simply buffoons who have been lucky enough to never find themselves unemployed, and haven't a clue that the chasm between what our government say about the 'recovery' and what is really happening in our economy is absolutely enormous?

And btw where is the nixer job posting board? I'm on the dole and no one has given me a heads up. I also have been denied fuel allowance, rent allowance, and don't have a council house, I was under the impression I should have all these automatically, but apparently the criteria is different from what boards tells me.

I don't know why you're getting in such a huff over this thread.

This isn't about people unfortunately losing their job and need some assistance while they look for a new job.

This thread is about what percentage of people on the dole are absolute taking the piss.

spurious

The main change I would like to see to the dole is that it should not be given for nothing. If someone applies without ever having worked, they should be required to do 6-8 weeks work in the community before getting any handouts.

Plenty of physical work out there to be done. Graffiti, dog gik, leaves, litter all need to be cleared. Foliage around road signs removed. Road signs cleaned. Nothing for nothing. School leavers going straight on the dole is disgusting.

Wanderer78

spurious wrote:

Plenty of physical work out there to be done. Graffiti, dog gik, leaves, litter all need to be cleared. Foliage around road signs removed. Road signs cleaned. Nothing for nothing. School leavers going straight on the dole is disgusting.

Maybe our educational system is failing to address their needs, leading to them signing on?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Maybe our educational system is failing to address their needs, leading to them signing on?

That's patently not true when you see the standards achieved in education in this country.

_Roz_

Me ma works for social welfare and I can tell ya there's a lot on there who shouldn't be. One of her neighbours claims a payment he's not entitled to, but because she only knows that outside of work, she can't actually do anything about it.

That said unless it's blatently obvious, I'd usually err on the side of empathy for rather than suspicion of someone's reason for being on the dole, as I was on it for a long time myself once.

[Deleted User]

Allen Aggressive Reindeer wrote: »

That's patently not true when you see the standards achieved in education in this country.

Standards set by the educational community, not by the companies that would be there to employ them.

Education consistently falls behind the actual skills required in the marketplace, especially in technical fields. Consider the amount of training (by the company) that is involved in many industries when someone actually gets a job.

whisky_galore

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

A Dole thread on AH? How original.

Makes a change from the pro-Choice cyclist Gaelgoir Traveller threads.

Wanderer78

Allen Aggressive Reindeer wrote:

That's patently not true when you see the standards achieved in education in this country.

We constantly talk about standards, and grades etc, what does this actually mean, and does it actually truly benefit society as a whole? Are we actually teaching kids the correct things, in the correct way? Are we leaving some people out, approaching teaching of these individuals incorrectly? I have reason to believe we have sufficient evidence that shows this is the case, and this is somewhat reflected in our unemployment statistics, amongst other things. Our educational system fails some badly, some extremely badly, leading to extremely complex issues thereafter for some of these individuals

seamus

Oranage2 wrote: »

I don't know why you're getting in such a huff over this thread.

This isn't about people unfortunately losing their job and need some assistance while they look for a new job.

This thread is about what percentage of people on the dole are absolute taking the piss.

Who cares?

So long as they're getting enough money for their smokes and their booze it means they'll stay off the streets and won't be out robbing houses.

It's not like if you cut off the people who don't want to work, that they're going to get up the next day, stick on a shirt and tie and go get a job.

One way or another, the people working will pay for the ones who won't. I'd rather pay in a structured way than have a robbery-lottery to find out whose house will be burgled next.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

The_Brood

pone2012 wrote: »

As many that need it... Consider the catastrophic and highly overpriced public transport system and of development/FDI outside of Dublin and Cork and you've started to touch on the finer details.... combine that with intergenerational unemployment, institutionalised discrimination regards employment practices and constant unrealistic expectations of experience and qualifications for literally any and all jobs.....and then you're starting to see the bigger picture

The notion that people just don't want to work applies to a minority.... even then id argue it's sometimes (not always) a mixture of home environment , regional deprivation , educational disadvantage and improper facilities to allow people reliable on time transportation to and from work

You'd have the subsection again who don't want too ... but again quite small when you isolate factors in my opinion at least

That is all good and true and important to point out, but what then does that imply for the people that are working and paying taxes? That many of us do not have disadvantages? Sometimes huge disadvantages and obstacles? That we do not come from very troubled families? Or that transportation is more reliable for us?

I, and I am sure many others, can write out a Lord of the Rings-length book about the complexity and severity of the problems that should be preventing us from working - starting with serious chronic illness on my end - but we still do.

It must be wonderful for those who are working because they just don't really have many obstacles in their way...but I have the feeling that if only people in that category actually worked, the vast majority of the populace would be unemployed.

FishOnABike

spurious wrote: »

The main change I would like to see to the dole is that it should not be given for nothing. If someone applies without ever having worked, they should be required to do 6-8 weeks work in the community before getting any handouts.

Plenty of physical work out there to be done. Graffiti, dog gik, leaves, litter all need to be cleared. Foliage around road signs removed. Road signs cleaned. Nothing for nothing. School leavers going straight on the dole is disgusting.

Maybe if that work needs to be done city or county councils should employ people to do it. Oh, maybe if they hadn't downsized their maintenance departments in the last few years some of those people would be working.

Rory28

The_Brood wrote: »

That is all good and true and important to point out, but what then does that imply for the people that are working and paying taxes? That many of us do not have disadvantages? Sometimes huge disadvantages and obstacles? That we do not come from very troubled families? Or that transportation is more reliable for us?

I, and I am sure many others, can write out a Lord of the Rings-length book about the complexity and severity of the problems that should be preventing us from working - starting with serious chronic illness on my end - but we still do.

It must be wonderful for those who are working because they just don't really have many obstacles in their way...but I have the feeling that if only people in that category actually worked, the vast majority of the populace would be unemployed.

Forget all that personal nonsense you're trying to bring in. Can you have a good life on the dole? imo no. 193 euro a week doesn't go far. I'd rather have my job even if it means going to a place I dont want to go to 5 days a week.

Doing so affords me luxuries I wouldn't get on the dole. If you really think its all sunshine and gravy on the dole then by all means start turning up to work late and you'll be on it in no time.

diomed

120%

thebourke

i think the big problem is that certain people i this country are allowed to be on the dole all their life which is wrong.
if they don't have a disability, they shouldn't be entitled to stay on the dole all their life.
As i said earlier one of my friends has been on the dole for years.I honestly don;t know if he ever paid tax in his life!
it does get annoying when you work and then you see certain people getting benefits for free that is paid for by the working people that don't derserve.If you go italy /spain for example you don't get social welfare all your life!

El Weirdo

spurious wrote: »

The main change I would like to see to the dole is that it should not be given for nothing. If someone applies without ever having worked, they should be required to do 6-8 weeks work in the community before getting any handouts.

Plenty of physical work out there to be done. Graffiti, dog gik, leaves, litter all need to be cleared. Foliage around road signs removed. Road signs cleaned. Nothing for nothing. School leavers going straight on the dole is disgusting.

You mean... give them jobs?

This is essentially what is done up and down the country with community employment schemes and rural employment schemes.

thebourke

He doesn't say what dole he is on.However I know him a long time.He does a a few nixers here and there.He is 46.He came to dublin about 10 years ago for 2.5 years and didn't work one day.The reason i know this is i was sharing a house in dublin at the time with him.Rent was really cheap (130euro per month in Ranelagh).He was always making excuses about looking for a job.one day i had to do up a cv for him.i asked him about his previous work experiences and what dates he was working with various companies and he was looking at me like as though i should know what dates he was working!

There is a people that are entitled to be on the dole but there still is a certain element that are playing the system.
There is courses out there that people can do!