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What % of pple on the dole deserve to be on it?

The_Brood

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

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jigglypuffstuff

As many that need it... Consider the catastrophic and highly overpriced public transport system and of development/FDI outside of Dublin and Cork and you've started to touch on the finer details.... combine that with intergenerational unemployment, institutionalised discrimination regards employment practices and constant unrealistic expectations of experience and qualifications for literally any and all jobs.....and then you're starting to see the bigger picture

The notion that people just don't want to work applies to a minority.... even then id argue it's sometimes (not always) a mixture of home environment , regional deprivation , educational disadvantage and improper facilities to allow people reliable on time transportation to and from work

You'd have the subsection again who don't want too ... but again quite small when you isolate factors in my opinion at least

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

doolox

Economies work in very connected ways. Imagine if the dole was reduced to €50 or so per week. The minimum wage at which people would work would also go down unless the Government spent a lot of money enforcing the present day min wage laws. A lot of employers circumvent min wage laws with zero hour contracts, casual working arrangements and unpaid activities vital to their workers input such as not paying delivery drivers while waiting to unload/load their trucks, not paying travel time or for forced overnight stays as part of their job or split shifts often 4 or 5 hours apart where one works 2-3 hours and then are "off" work for 4 hours and back on again for 2-3 hours. Effectively an employer is getting 10 hours attendance at work for 6 hours pay.

Low dole payments would put more intense pressure on legally unprotected benefits accrued by people in work. Those at the bottom would probably suffer the most but everybody all the way up the vocational "food chain" would suffer a reduction in their terms and conditions. This may take time to happen but reducing dole payments would put too much bargaining power in Employers hands and too little in workers hands.

Governments supply food and shelter and basic necessities to non working people otherwise employers would threaten to withdraw these needed things from their work-forces and force them to accept less wages and worse conditions using food and shelter as a very effective terror weapon.

Trouble is that many people have very short memories or the people who live through the hungry 30's and 50's of the last century are no longer around to tell us what it was really like.

Somewhat similar to traffic wardens and clamping.....nobody likes them but try running a road network and transport system without them.

glomar

with no power comes no resposibility .. sorry couldnt resist

worded

thebourke wrote: »

i lost my job before xmas..signed on to dole lasy week...first time in 14 years that i have had to sign on...
social welfare guy was very helpfil..i asked him is there mnay people signing on now..he said its busy..he says problem now is that companies not offering proper work contracts!of course you will always have certain people who will never work and will always be on the dole.
Actually one on my friends has been on the dole for years!!!totally useless.

Best of luck getting replacement work. Update cv and network etc

thebourke

i lost my job before xmas..signed on to dole lasy week...first time in 14 years that i have had to sign on...
social welfare guy was very helpfil..i asked him is there mnay people signing on now..he said its busy..he says problem now is that companies not offering proper work contracts!of course you will always have certain people who will never work and will always be on the dole.
Actually one on my friends has been on the dole for years!!!totally useless.

Mrs OBumble

Chrongen wrote: »

You don't get the fcuking dole if you are disabled.

Yes you can.

All you need to do is say you are ready willing and able to work. If you say that, then welfare will give you the dole. If they suspect you're telling porkies they can apply tests (call you to interviews, send you to courses etc) but AFAIKA they canmot send you to a doctor to certify your fitness.

Most disabled people who qualify for disability would rather get it, and so voluntarily go to a doctor for a cert saying they can't work. But some lack self awareness and really believe they will get a job. So you get a few on the dole.

No idea what the proportion is here.

Fr_Dougal

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I know someone who knows someone too!

I hope the OPs friends friend isnt breaking data protection laws by the way. Like all Dole office looking up Dolores McNamara

Annasopra

I know someone who knows someone too!

I hope the OPs friends friend isnt breaking data protection laws by the way. Like all Dole office looking up Dolores McNamara

worded

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

93.65464.2%

Sorry that I couldn't be more specific.

85% of male smokers who try Camel go back to women

Odhinn

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm writing all this down.
They haven't gone away.... ahh feck ,wrong thread.

Is it just me or does this line make you think he's going to link the whole thing to aliens, or maybe the lizard people?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

corner of hells

Odhinn wrote: »

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

42.3%. That's allowing for the Sky Sports In Every Room factor.

I'm writing all this down.
They haven't gone away.... ahh feck ,wrong thread.

jimbobalob309

about tree fiddy

Odhinn

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

42.3%. That's allowing for the Sky Sports In Every Room factor.

Victor

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

No. "Unemployed" are people in the workforce who want to work and are looking for work. The 2-4% represents people who are typically short-term between jobs or are structurally unemployed (their skills are for a job that no longer exists).

For statistical purposes, those who can't work are not recorded as "unemployed". Neither are those outside the workforce, e.g. people caring for family, the idle rich, etc.

The "live register" is a different measurement.

RiderOnTheStorm

Wanderer78 wrote:

id take those figures with a pinch of salt, all highly subjective and easily manipulated

Yea, and unemployed does not equate to dole, but thought the figure interesting...

[Deleted User]

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

It was around 4% and they didn't include a raft of cohorts including the drinkers, those on courses, those unable to work, etc etc etc

The rest of ye- summarised information is not under data protection as a rule would ye lie down ffs

Wanderer78

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

id take those figures with a pinch of salt, all highly subjective and easily manipulated

RiderOnTheStorm

If I remember rightly, during height of the boom, unemployment was at about 2%. This was supposed to be the lowest it could go, as it represented those that could not work. They were calling it "effectively zero" .

Grab All Association

I shall now call AGS, DSP and the DPC. Boards.ie will have no problem I imagine giving your information to AGS when requested to track you down and find out who is leaking data on DSP clients to you.

I suggest you wear pants at all times otherwise you’ll be arrested in your underwear.

MilesMorales1

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

So you have someone leaking personal confidential information to you? That a pretty serious claim to make, if it was a real thing and not something you've invented.

Zaph

The_Brood wrote: »

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

So what you're saying is that someone who has access to this information is freely sharing it with you, and others no doubt, has no problem breaching the Data Protection Act? I'd be interested to know what other information this person is sharing, and with whom.

spindex

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

93.65464.2%

Sorry that I couldn't be more specific.

You were doing well until you put in the second decimal point.

the_pen_turner

10% max

qwerty ui op

The_Brood wrote: »

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

I'm not o.k with it but I can tell you, that i'll never, not in a million years even look in that general direction, until such time as we know:

who are the rich ?

and

what are they doing with their money?
there should be a 5-10 minute segment on this every night on the news.

Irishsneachta

You don't even know what you're talking about when you say people with severe disability be on the dole. At least research before you whinge. Are you on the dole or sick yourself? Seem to have a lot of time on your hands.

retro:electro

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

A Dole thread on AH? How original.

These kinds of comments aren't very original either to be fair

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

And, nobody 'deserves' to be on the dole.

splinter65

The_Brood wrote: »

In your rough estimate, how many people who are on the dole deserve to be getting such social benefits, either due to severe physical or mental disability or whatever criteria you hold to be legitimate? 90%? 60? 30?

And how many do you think are just having a good time on your heard earned money, enjoying state-sponsored theft of tax money as you slave away at your job, sometimes unable to even get a proper night's sleep? Gaming the system in any way that they can that will allow them to stay on the dole?

Because as someone who knows someone who has access to information quite relevant to the question....let me tell you that it's worse than you can expect. Much worse.

I am first in line to argue that those in the former category deserve every bit of help, don't get me wrong...but how are people, politicians, just anyone ok with how remarkably large the latter group is?

People with severe mental/physical disabilities don’t get the dole. Go back and check your facts.

RobbingBandit

We including children's allowance here too OP

WELL ARE WE.