Discovery 1x12 – "Vaulting Ambition" [** SPOILERS **]

silverharp

Evade wrote: »

The split was at least 200 years ago, probably a lot more. The infinite multiverse does allow for very different but very similar situation it's just the chances of finding it are infinitesimally low. Let alone consistently finding it nine times, four of which were accidents.

I cant get my brain around that, once you have differences then you cant have the same people being born

Evade

silverharp wrote: »

I cant get my brain around that, once you have differences then you cant have the same people being born

It would take a whole lot of coincidences alright. It's like warp drive, we know it's impossible but we just go along with it.

seamus

silverharp wrote: »

I cant get my brain around that, once you have differences then you cant have the same people being born

Evade wrote: »

It would take a whole lot of coincidences alright. It's like warp drive, we know it's impossible but we just go along with it.

Ultimately any multiverse theory says that not only can potential alternate realities exist, but that they all exist.

That means that no matter how unlikely an occurrence may be - such as a universe containing exactly the same people with similar backstories but emerging from an entirely different cultural history - that occurrence exists somewhere in the multiverse.

Hand-wringing? Easy answer? Pseudoscience?

Yep; all the good traditions of Star Trek in one

Johnny Storm

seamus wrote: »

Hand-wringing? Easy answer? Pseudoscience?

Yep; all the good traditions of Star Trek in one

"Destiny"?

noodler

Might qualify as so bat shot crazy that it's interesting rather than good.

Series has been mixed to date and that's being kind. Scattergun approach to star trek ideas.

I didn't see that coming though. Not in a million years.

fritzelly

pixelburp wrote: »

For comparison, here's the intro being talked about: don't think there's much to be taken from it beyond generic war imagery.

Hell yeah, forgot about those episodes, may have to have a relook

PhiloCypher

Im not sure why but I haven't been as invested in the show since its come back , before the christmas break I'd written phone book posts here and on the Disco reddit, but despite the revelations about Tyler and Lorca I've struggled to muster enthusiasm enough to post . Maybe it's the fact both revelations were widely theorised and discussed previously and that I had hoped neither were true idk . Maybe it's the fact I expected this mirror stuff to be a 1 or 2 ep arc tops and not take up the entire second half of the season , leaving the war with the Klingons unresolved.

The episodes on the whole have been pretty good but for me MU episodes are best used sparingly and not as a 3 and counting arc in the midst of a life or death struggle with the Klingons.

pixelburp

Aside from the fact I denied the theory, the Lorca thing took me by surprise because I limited my indulgence to this forum; I find surrounding myself with fandom just takes some of the fun and polish off these sorts of things, where there's no voyage of ... arf... discovery because all tangents have been minutely discussed in eye watering detail on another site.

CramCycle

pixelburp wrote: »

Aside from the fact I denied the theory, the Lorca thing took me by surprise because I limited my indulgence to this forum; I find surrounding myself with fandom just takes some of the fun and polish off these sorts of things, where there's no voyage of ... arf... discovery because all tangents have been minutely discussed in eye watering detail on another site.

One of the reasons I prefer here to other sites, it reminds me of having a chat with mates in school who enjoy it . Not sure how anyone enjoys TV shows after prereading some of the other sites.

Ping Chow Chi

oh the it took me by surprise, and I loved it!  For me the show has gone from background noise on the TV to something that I look forward to watching.

pixelburp

CramCycle wrote: »

pixelburp wrote: »

Aside from the fact I denied the theory, the Lorca thing took me by surprise because I limited my indulgence to this forum; I find surrounding myself with fandom just takes some of the fun and polish off these sorts of things, where there's no voyage of ... arf... discovery because all tangents have been minutely discussed in eye watering detail on another site.

One of the reasons I prefer here to other sites, it reminds me of having a chat with mates in school who enjoy it . Not sure how anyone enjoys TV shows after prereading some of the other sites.

Yeah, bingo. Boards has a casual atmosphere and less intrinsically competitive element than other discussion areas. Even specific fora like this one, geared towards a fan centric franchise, are more naturally friendly, IMO anyway

BlitzKrieg

Honest side question away from Lorca and Tyler

The spores

One thing that has bugged me since the beginning of discovery was that the whole Spore drive and super teleportation ship technology would all need to conveniently vanish by the end of the series to make some sort of sense with the rest of the franchise.

I'd assumed from the get go that something will pop up that will make access to the spore drive impossible. For example I thought it was going to be cut out early enough when it was revealed they were killing the creature by using it and then when it was revealed that they were also killing Stamets

naturally I'm expecting that to still be on the table.


But then Spore Dr Hulbur showed up and the Mycelium network started taking on this *time and space are irrelevent* be anywhere do anything powers and here is genuine thought. is this going to go into Q?

It sounds like a terrible thought on one hand, but on the other taking a species with the ability to go anywhere and do anything and that time is irrelevant to them, you wouldnt really take on human traits nor have an interest in humans.

But if humans suddenly showed up and started poking around in your part of existence, you could quickly adapt human like facade and even make a decision to take a look and judge these humans for the crap they are causing you and then expunge them from using the network again.


Just for something different for the reason why the spore drive will eventually get dropped from use aside from the usual too dangerous/too unstable/prime directive excuses.

CramCycle

I thought that it was going to be what Stamets is starting to see, the mycellium network getting infected/dying?

_Kaiser_

I see the whole spores thing in the same way as Star Wars idea of midichlorians....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfzwFloVqA

Goodshape

Yeah, spore drive and the mirror universe.

I think it's a good show despite those pretty awful plot devices. They'd both be fine in an episode or maybe two, but basing a whole season (or series??) around them is.... unfortunate, tbh.


Not that Star Trek is some precious fact-based drama that needs protecting from entertaining storylines; but they are terribly silly ideas.

How is the spore drive a terrible idea? It's not like Trek hasn't just abandoned propulsive tech before cough... Transwarp... cough

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

How is the spore drive a terrible idea? It's not like Trek hasn't just abandoned propulsive tech before cough... Transwarp... cough

Because it's a universe wide network of biological things. It's fluidic space but worse.

Goodshape

Deleted User wrote: »

How is the spore drive a terrible idea? It's not like Trek hasn't just abandoned propulsive tech before cough... Transwarp... cough

Yeah, it's a perfectly Star Trek idea. Would be right at home in an episode or two, just maybe don't pin an entire season/series-long story arc on it.

But it's not that big a deal really.


When I heard Star Trek was going back to the 23rd century I had thought it was a great idea to get rid of the crazy god-like technological powers they'd dreamt up over the three 24th century shows. Get back to some sort of 'basics'. But, instead there's a travel-anywhere-instantly spore drive and an anything-goes MU, so, meh. Might be a bit of a missed opportunity there.

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

Because it's a universe wide network of biological things. It's fluidic space but worse.

It's arguably more Dr Who than Star Trek in its vision, but it has a legitimate route in earth biology, and tbh makes for a potentially appropriate ethical dilemma that'd be right at home in a TNG episode. What if there was some biological interconnectivity, and could it be harnessed for travel?

Besides, by all accounts it seems already on its way out. The immediate danger is that alt Stamets will destroy the network before Captain Saru can return (oh, and Burnham too I guess, pffh), but assuming they do, the reveal of a potential sentiece through the doctors... 'spirit' I guess will probably fast track the scheme being scuttled.

Overall I think the mix of Klingon politics, spore drive, mirror universe, betrays a messy season 1 in the writing room. The various delays and departures probably affected the ability to form any kind of consistent narrative, so hopefully season 2 is when we'll see better bedding down of things.

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

but it has a legitimate route in earth biology

It does?

pixelburp wrote: »

Overall I think the mix of Klingon politics, spore drive, mirror universe, betrays a messy season 1 in the writing room. The various delays and departures probably affected the ability to form any kind of consistent narrative, so hopefully season 2 is when we'll see better bedding down of things.

Star Trek with a messy first series, that's almost unheard of. Yeah I do want to see what the set up for the status quo is in series two. Assuming of course they get back to the Prime Universe and we don't end up in Star Trek: Sliders.

Goodshape

Evade wrote: »

It does?

Yeah, at least a little bit.

Mycelium is a real thing – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium

Discovery's Paul Stamets takes his name from a real guy – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Stamets

He was on the Joe Rogan podcast recently. Interesting listen if you're into that kinda thing – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqWstVnRjQ

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

It does?

Sort of. The spore network comes off very similar to the mega fungi that exist on earth. iirc the largest living organism on the planet is actually one of these giant stretches of fungus, kilometres in length that are on or under the forest floor of (I think ) the US. I believe scientists had thought they were just separate areas until they realised it was all one gigantic organism, dozens of KM wide. Obviously you can't use it to travel but I think the spore network echoes this notion of a hidden, organic layer beneath the surface.

evade wrote: »

Star Trek with a messy first series, that's almost unheard of. Yeah I do want to see what the set up for the status quo is in series two. Assuming of course they get back to the Prime Universe and we don't end up in Star Trek: Sliders.

I'm presuming Lorca is no more, can't see him being allowed to return to our universe if he survives his second coup attempt, so I'm guessing the captains chair will be open. Thereafter it's interesting to speculate where Discovery could go to remain narratively relevant.

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

Sort of. The spore network comes off very similar to the mega fungi that exist on earth. iirc the largest living organism on the planet is actually one of these giant stretches of fungus, kilometres in length that are on or under the forest floor of (I think ) the US. I believe scientists had thought they were just separate areas until they realised it was all one gigantic organism, dozens of KM wide. Obviously you can't use it to travel but I think the spore network echoes this notion of a hidden, organic layer beneath the surface.

I was focusing on the space part more than the fungus part and getting really confused. There's a forest that's speculated to be one giant tree too.

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm presuming Lorca is no more, can't see him being allowed to return to our universe if he survives his second coup attempt, so I'm guessing the captains chair will be open. Thereafter it's interesting to speculate where Discovery could go to remain narratively relevant.

It looks to me like the only real options they have are the classic exploration angle or experimental technology dilemmas punctuated with the occasional flare up from the fractured Klingon Empire.

pixelburp

As season is confirmed and safe, I suspect we'll end the first year with a definitive cliffhanger. You're more likely to leave things on a tease if the show is already locked in for return; with that in mind, the speculation might be how it'll cap things off and assuming the Mirror Universe remains the setting for the final 3 episodes, I wonder will the cliffhanger revolve around a lot gasp attempt to return to our universe.

Maybe even have a Voyager 2.0, flinging the Discovery back into our universe only to find itself lightyears from home lol.

Oh lord, even wilder theory: with the corporate merger in the running, the film franchise would be on the cards, so Discovery gets thrown into the Kelvinverse, and Burnham bumps into Zachary Quinto''s Spock

Or they end up post TNG after the federation's fall

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Or they end up post TNG after the federation's fall

With Kevin Sorbo as the new captain.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

With Kevin Sorbo as the new captain.

And bats as the enemy

It's as Trek as it comes, straight from the great bird himself

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

And bats as the enemy

It's as Trek as it comes, straight from the great bird himself

I like Andromeda. If they could have gotten all the Trek Stuff in there instead of half-assedly coming up with analogues it could have been really good.

Goodshape

Deleted User wrote: »

Or they end up post TNG after the federation's fall

If they use USS Defiant's tech to get back, isn't there an established time-travel element to that? It went ~100 years back in time, according to Enterprise, when it traveled to the MU. Maybe it'll send the 100 years forward on the return leg.

hmm.. maybe return them to a 24th century that's in ruins (from a Federation POV) due to Discovery never returning, the Klingons winning the war, maybe even the ISS Discovery having run rampant in the prime universe.

fixXxer

Deleted User wrote: »

Or they end up post TNG after the federation's fall

I would watch the hell out of that.