Discovery 1x12 – "Vaulting Ambition" [** SPOILERS **]

spookwoman

Lots of questions answered.

Had a feeling there was a another reason why Lorca chose Burnham but I didn't expect that.

Tristram

Loved it. Another cracker. Really belting along now and I'm excited to see where it goes.

c.p.w.g.w

Great Episode, love how how different in tone this series is, compared to previous Trek series

corkie

Lorca?

Has the sensitivity to light by terrains ever been mentioned in other Mirror Universe episodes?

Hardcore Trekkies will be quick to point out that this light sensitivity thing is new to the canon and that no one in 1967’s “Mirror, Mirror,” seemed to be bothered by bright lights. Still, this retcon makes a lot of sense.

https://www.inverse.com/article/40376-star-trek-discovery-mirror-universe-terrans-humans-light-sensitivity

hal9550

9/10 Pretty Decent in my book

Light sensitivity - im fine with it i genuinely dont mind this slight retcon

So Questions answered but it just brings up new ones

Where is our Lorca? Will we get him back? I dont think this mirror lorca is actually 'bad' in the mirror sense of the word.. I have a feeling he actually wants to over through the RACIST/TERRAN-ONLY side of the empire, which would tend to explain the more multi-species empire in Mirror Mirror - Spock and Vulcans etc

How did he get over to Prime universe? Spores? Transporter? etc

Personally i would NOT trust the Emperor, and im shocked Burnham is going to give her the spore schematics - i would trust Lorca far more than Georgeau -

SO let the theorizing begin! And im curious to see how many people are PLAGUED by the retcon -

Starfleet Student

Wow that was a really great twist.
I did not see that coming at all.

ezra_

That was a great episode - how many are left?

Evade

Pretty good episode. So who fired on the rebel base in the last episode? I thought it might have been Georgiou on her ship but it apparently wasn't there.

Voq Ash is still dumb. They changed his genes and brain patterns but still had to do primitive, by comparison, surgery for the rest.

If mirror Stametts is on the Charon why did the USS Discovery switch places with the ISS Discovery as opposed to just appearing in the Mirror Universe?

So next series we'll have Captain Saru and First Officer Burnham unless Michael gets a taste for Kelpien.

Just as a thread question. Is there any need to spoiler text stuff from this episode? It makes it awkward to read.

ezra_

Evade wrote: »

Pretty good episode. So who fired on the rebel base in the last episode? I thought it might have been Georgiou on her ship but it apparently wasn't there.

Georgiou says in the episode that she fired on the rebels.

Evade

ezra_ wrote: »

Georgiou says in the episode that she fired on the rebels.

But how? The Charon wasn't there. She says she had to "dispatch them myself" so was there another ship or are there warp speed torpedoes or since she's a gold clad emperor of mankind did she just will them to be destroyed and the warp mycelial network obliged?

I did like the listing of the Empress' titles.

ezra_

Evade wrote: »

But how? The Charon wasn't there. She says she had to "dispatch them myself" so was there another ship or are there warp speed torpedoes or since she's a gold clad emperor of mankind did she just will them to be destroyed and the warp mycelial network obliged?

I did like the listing of the Empress' titles.

Wasn't her ship there? Why else was Burham taking a shuttle craft over to her, and not just go in the Shen Zou?

Fenster

Cracking episode. Discovery is really going down a weird and wild rabbit hole. The last scene between Hugh and Paul was beautiful.

Evade

ezra_ wrote: »

Wasn't her ship there? Why else was Burham taking a shuttle craft over to her, and not just go in the Shen Zou?

The shuttle went to warp and Burnham mentions something about the Charon's location being a secret. If the Charon was there they could have just transported over.

Why is the Empress' daughter commanding a ship that's about a century old? I thought nepotism would at least get her one of those fancy new Constitution classes.

Slydice

That was so good!

The shock ending! The feels! More Mirror Universe!

BKtje

I guess the Charon warped in and killed the rebels before leaving again so no one knew the location of the ship (or at least for long). The Charon didn't go very far which is why the shuttle only took a couple of minutes at warp 1.

Sometimes the easiest explanation and all that...

Evade

BKtje wrote: »

I guess the Charon warped in and killed the rebels before leaving again so no one knew the location of the ship (or at least for long). The Charon didn't go very far which is why the shuttle only took a couple of minutes at warp 1.

Sometimes the easiest explanation and all that...

Wouldn't it have made more sense to beam Burnham and Lorca on board the Charon and then warp away? The way you described has a greater chance of someone finding where the Charon is because the coordinates had to be transmitted and transferred to the shuttle so they could be intercepted or copied along the way.

Johnny Storm

Extra ganglia for all the mirror-Lorca deniers ........ :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Goodshape

That was really good!

Not totally thrilled that the Mirror-Lorca 'twist' came to pass. I guess it's seemed pretty inevitable for a while now if you've been paying attention (particularly to forums/reddit etc.) but along with Ash/Voq and just being in the Mirror Universe in general, it seems like maybe a twist too far.

It also undermines the interesting character that Lorca was, although it might be interesting now to go back and re-watch the series with the confirmed knowledge that he's not who he says he is.

And if Voq has now been 'killed', as it seems he might have been, then that whole thing seems a bit pointless altogether. But still to be determined where they go with that.


Having said all that, really enjoyed the episode!

Johnny Storm

That episode seemed incredibly short?

Goodshape

Johnny Storm wrote: »

That episode seemed incredibly short?

Yeah, 37 minutes :-/

khaldrogo

c.p.w.g.w wrote:

Great Episode, love how how different in tone this series is, compared to previous Trek series

Doesn't really feel like star trek imo. Take away the uniform and the prime directive and it could be a stand alone.

c.p.w.g.w

khaldrogo wrote: »

Doesn't really feel like star trek imo. Take away the uniform and the prime directive and it could be a stand alone.

Which I do enjoy, it's a different, darker star trek

The_Valeyard

excellent episode. Really enjoyed it. The Imperial palace, wow, what a ship!

And is Lorca beginning to show his true colours?

coffee_cake

aw man you guys were right all along about lorca, someone pointed out the 'dim light of this world' last week and all
that was exciting!!!!!

fritzelly

Need to rewatch this episode

What did they do with Voq?

Stamets wakes up on the Charon but Tilly is there? Is that our Stamet?

coffee_cake

fritzelly wrote: »

Need to rewatch this episode

What did they do with Voq?

Stamets wakes up on the Charon but Tilly is there? Is that our Stamet?

i think both stamets woke up on their respective ships. they showed alt stamets first then ours

The_Valeyard

bluewolf wrote: »

i think both stamets woke up on their respective ships. they showed alt stamets first then ours

Alt Stamets needs to report to The Emperor. Theres an MU invasion to prepare for.

CramCycle

Evade wrote: »

If mirror Stametts is on the Charon why did the USS Discovery switch places with the ISS Discovery as opposed to just appearing in the Mirror Universe?

We don't actually know this happened, mirror discovery could have been destroyed but taking that it was, it is possible that they are simply separate events. Mirror Stamets only knows of Stamets because they worked on the same ideas.

So next series we'll have Captain Saru and First Officer Burnham unless Michael gets a taste for Kelpien.

Or that Lorca, knowing that him and Burnham were working together, the original is still alive. This seems unlikely to me but that doesn't mean a first officer will hold Captains rank outside of battlefield promotion.

Just as a thread question. Is there any need to spoiler text stuff from this episode? It makes it awkward to read.

I could be wrong but I though the point of the episode specific threads was so we didn;t have to after release date, the general thread needs it but not this. I maybe wrong/

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Extra ganglia for all the mirror-Lorca deniers ........ :pac::pac::pac::pac:

I thought he was at first and then my mind changed as it felt either too obvious or too nonsensical. They played it well with him not saying her name. Happy to admit I was sort of surprised, not terribly but enjoyably, and it made sense.

Goodshape wrote: »

Not totally thrilled that the Mirror-Lorca 'twist' came to pass. I guess it's seemed pretty inevitable for a while now if you've been paying attention (particularly to forums/reddit etc.) but along with Ash/Voq and just being in the Mirror Universe in general, it seems like maybe a twist too far.

I think they left enough doubt in there that they could have gotten away with it either way if they wanted.

And if Voq has now been 'killed', as it seems he might have been, then that whole thing seems a bit pointless altogether. But still to be determined where they go with that.

Not convinced he has, as my understanding is that Tyler is Voq, Voq is not Tyler. I get the impression the med crew haven't a clue what is going on and they think that Tyler has had Voqs memories implanted on top of him. I fully suspect she has just pushed the memories back down, although could be wrong in the face of a mirror universe and religion being a crock of sh1t.

CramCycle

bluewolf wrote: »

i think both stamets woke up on their respective ships. they showed alt stamets first then ours

I made he mistake of presuming they were in alternate universes but when I look at their reactions (I wasn't really paying attention first time round), there is no flinching from either in regards location. They both woke up in their own bodies, as you said.

terryduff12

Great episode didn't see it coming, was hesitant about the parallel universe but it has tied in very well.

Evade

CramCycle wrote: »

We don't actually know this happened, mirror discovery could have been destroyed but taking that it was, it is possible that they are simply separate events. Mirror Stamets only knows of Stamets because they worked on the same ideas.

The ISS Discovery was at that battle that took place just before the USS Discovery crossed over wasn't it? The USS Discovery didn't detect any debris from Federation/Imperial ships (I'm assuming it would be similar) at the battle site so where is the ISS Discovery? It's possible it was destroyed on the way to the Prime Universe but it still begs the question why they appear to have switched when the ISS Discovery doesn't have a DASH drive.

CramCycle wrote: »

Or that Lorca, knowing that him and Burnham were working together, the original is still alive. This seems unlikely to me but that doesn't mean a first officer will hold Captains rank outside of battlefield promotion.

I'm thinking back to the initial description of the series that it will follow a first officer as the main character. We thought after Burnham's court martial that this premise was a bit of a red herring but it could come around again in series two. I think it's unlikely they'll demote or get rid of Saru so up is the only real way for him to go. It is (was?) a war after all captains could be in short supply and it's a TV series the actor probably has a contract so they'll have to keep him around. Jason Isaacs only signed on for one series didn't he?