Jordan Peterson interview on C4

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m sorry, you need a statistic to show that biological males will commit crimes at the rate of biological males? Is that what you’re asking me for?

I'm asking you to show me the statistic that says trans people commit more sexual assaults than cis people. Show me that stat.

Brian?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m sorry, you need a statistic to show that biological males will commit crimes at the rate of biological males? Is that what you’re asking me for?

That's just being silly, the rates of sexual offences in people who are Trans v those who aren't exist.

creditcarder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Deal with it. That's what it is and you know it. Refusing to acknowledge trans people as being a thing, not even subtly linking trans people constantly to sex offenders, that's on you.

I don't support transgenderism, but I don't really oppose it. The arguments for it are absurd (has there even been a transgender person born with a different brain like ever?), and I find it disturbing that most (until recently) are men to women.



But, on another level, I find it silly how nervous women are around men in general. I mean, why in the world would a man attack you for sex? Sure, if he's a man akin to a junkie/crazy person, but I find it silly how nervous women are about getting sexually attacked. Sorry.

CtevenSrowder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

That is entirely for the courts to decide. If a court decides that a person IS transgender, has been living as a transgender person then yes. How many examples are there of this actually happening in our society are there?

If trans people half as likely to commit sexual assault than cis people, is the bigger threat to women male prison guards? I wonder is there more reported cases of male prison guards sexually assaulting prisoners or trans people?

That's a cop out. I'm asking whether you think it's OK? Whether it's up to the courts is neither here nor there.

Gynoid

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's so strange, if this is so widely known and so open to abuse, in the last 5(!!!) years why has nobody taken up this loophole in our justice system? Are our criminals just really dumb? Do our lawyers not advise their clients well enough? What is it?

It will be on you. Remember that at some time in the future.

LineOfBeauty

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

That's a cop out. I'm asking whether you think it's OK? Whether it's up to the courts is neither here nor there.

It kind of is though. So far, no examples of a lad turning up to court morning of his sentence in a wig and declaring himself a woman. What do you think the courts would do if that were to happen?

EmmetSpiceland

This thread is long overdue a move to the “Current Affairs” forum, <<snip>>

LineOfBeauty

Gynoid wrote: »

It will be on you. Remember that at some time in the future.

What a weird thing to say.The transgenderism thing really does bring out the dirt worst in some people.

creditcarder

Gynoid wrote: »

Do you know what is on you? The rapes or sexual assault that will result if anyone with bad intent (and I do not mean trans people) self declares their gender to freely enter a sex segregated intimate public space where vulnerable people are undressed or confined without means of escape and assaults people there. No one will be able to object because of Self ID. Those assaults - voyeurism, upskirting, sex assault, intimidation - by anyone (and I do not mean trans people) will be on you because you have insisted on the removal of the rational existence of safeguarding. Every time you hear of such in the future - it is on you, because you championed it and abused people who objected.

3 out of four of those are kind of silly tbh and can't be counted as asault

CtevenSrowder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's so strange, if this is so widely known and so open to abuse, in the last 5(!!!) years why has nobody taken up this loophole in our justice system? Are our criminals just really dumb? Do our lawyers not advise their clients well enough? What is it?

Because so few people are aware that self I'd laws exist. Why would a lawyer be advising someone to declare a different gender anywaway?

SnazzyPig

i think the term 'dog whistle' is now a dog whistle term for 'lookie here, I got me a racist, transphobe, Islamophobe, homophobe bigot' when really it's just someone who disagrees with a certain policy or view.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm asking you to show me the statistic that says trans people commit more sexual assaults than cis people. Show me that stat.

I didn’t say transgender people commit MORE crimes. I said a transgender woman will be AS likely to commit a crime as any other biological male. As in, on a par. Not more likely. I won’t provide a statistic for a claim I didn’t make. That is very dishonest of you.

Also, can you point to where I said transpeople don’t exist?

LineOfBeauty

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Because so few people are aware that self I'd laws exist. Why would a lawyer be advising someone to declare a different gender anywaway?

Apparently female prisons are a far more comfortable life for the inmate so of course any decent lawyer would be getting his clients to change their Self ID gender day 1 if it's so easy to exploit this loophole. In which case, are you telling me that Self ID is a big secret, that we shouldn't mention it in case the Irish underground gets wind of it? Are we, us fellow Boardsies, more informed on Irish law than practicing lawyers?

CtevenSrowder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It kind of is though. So far, no examples of a lad turning up to court morning of his sentence in a wig and declaring himself a woman. What do you think the courts would do if that were to happen?

Again, as par the course, you refuse to answer the question. Even admitting that you are not going to answer. Such a disengenous way to discuss a topic.

There is a biological male still with "her" penis in an Irish jail (since it being in Ireland is so important to you) being house with biological female prisoner. They are a convicted sex offender. Do you think this OK. Yes or no?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I didn’t say transgender people commit MORE crimes. I said a transgender woman will be AS likely to commit a crime as any other biological male. As in, on a par. Not more likely. I won’t provide a statistic for a claim I didn’t make. That is very dishonest of you.

Also, can you point to where I said transpeople don’t exist?

But....that's not true is it? You say

"I said a transgender woman will be AS likely to commit a crime as any other biological male"

However the stats don't reflect that OPINION. Infact, the stats seem to say that they are half as likely to commit a sexual assault as a CIS person. Maybe all of that nervousness you feel around trans people should instead be felt around CIS people since they are twice as likely to commit a sexual assault.

Here's a question for you. What's more likely to happen, a trans person being sexually assaulted or a trans person sexually assaulting someone else? I don't need stats for this question, ballpark give me an estimate of what you think is a more common occurence.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Brian? wrote: »

That's just being silly, the rates of sexual offences in people who are Trans v those who aren't exist.

Well, let’s see them then.

Gynoid

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

This thread is long overdue a move to the “Current Affairs” forum, where these backward, and bigoted, opinions welcomed, are encouraged.

Did you become a mod, Emmet? Belated congrats if so. Or do you just patrol sanctimoniously for opinions you deem unacceptable for free?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

But....that's not true is it? You say

"I said a transgender woman will be AS likely to commit a crime as any other biological male"

However the stats don't reflect that OPINION. Infact, the stats seem to say that they are half as likely to commit a sexual assault as a CIS person. Maybe all of that nervousness you feel around trans people should instead be felt around CIS people since they are twice as likely to commit a sexual assault.

Here's a question for you. What's more likely to happen, a trans person being sexually assaulted or a trans person sexually assaulting someone else? I don't need stats for this question, ballpark give me an estimate of what you think is a more common occurence.

Haven’t we been hear before? Do they negate each other? If trans people are attacked more than average, does that mean that women shouldn’t care about single sex spaces any more? Is it one or the other? And if violence against transpeople is treated with compassion, why are women’s fears dismissed on the same score?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

creditcarder wrote: »

I don't support transgenderism, but I don't really oppose it. The arguments for it are absurd (has there even been a transgender person born with a different brain like ever?), and I find it disturbing that most (until recently) are men to women.



But, on another level, I find it silly how nervous women are around men in general. I mean, why in the world would a man attack you for sex? Sure, if he's a man akin to a junkie/crazy person, but I find it silly how nervous women are about getting sexually attacked. Sorry.

What?

LineOfBeauty

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Again, as par the course, you refuse to answer the question. Even admitting that you are not going to answer. Such a disengenous way to discuss a topic.

There is a biological male still with "her" penis in an Irish jail (since it being in Ireland is so important to you) being house with biological female prisoner. They are a convicted sex offender. Do you think this OK. Yes or no?

I've answered the question, but then you just kind of avoided mine...

Isn't she currently being guarded by 2 prison officers? Isn't that also a case still under review?

Would you say that the constant linking of trans people to sexual deviants casts a negative light on a minority group? Would you say that it's a dirty tactic of people with a hatred of this minority group to link this minority with sexual predators? Would you say this is a deliberate attempt to link the two things?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Haven’t we been hear before? Do they negate each other? If trans people are attacked more than average, does that mean that women shouldn’t care about single sex spaces any more? Is it one or the other? And if violence against transpeople is treated with compassion, why are women’s fears dismissed on the same score?

No we haven't because I want you to admit that you believe that trans people don't exist, or at least should not be considered a minority group. So...do you believe that transgender people should be considered a minority group?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I've answered the question, but then you just kind of avoided mine...

Isn't she currently being guarded by 2 prison officers? Isn't that also a case still under review?

Would you say that the constant linking of trans people to sexual deviants casts a negative light on a minority group? Would you say that it's a dirty tactic of people with a hatred of this minority group to link this minority with sexual predators? Would you say this is a deliberate attempt to link the two things?

Firstly, can you direct me to where I said transpeople don’t exist?

I’m not linking transpeople to deviance, I’m saying they are biological males and therefore they will follow the crime patterns of biological males. Because they are biological males, even if they identify as a woman, so they can’t escape biologically male attributes.

I can’t speak for others who object, only myself.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

No we haven't because I want you to admit that you believe that trans people don't exist, or at least should not be considered a minority group. So...do you believe that transgender people should be considered a minority group?

You want me to admit? But I DO think transgender people exist. At least you’re admitting that I never actually said that. Very dishonest of you to say that I did say that. Tsk tsk.

And of course transgender people are a minority group.

B0jangles

bluewolf wrote: »

Women should just stfu and deal with whatever the men deem appropriate

So should gay people when they're not useful as an a-ha card anymore

Have you noticed who your allies in the fight against trans rights are?

It's the MRA/feminism-is-evil crowd, in America you've got the unwavering support of the religious right, right here on boards you've even got someone arguing that letting trans people transition will reduce the western birthrate!

Does that not seem a bit strange to you?

Isn't it also strange that the very same people who'd normally be up in arms at the suggestion that all men are violent and a threat to women are quite happy to agree with that same notion as long as the 'men' being talked about are transgender.

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You want me to admit? But I DO think transgender people exist. At least you’re admitting that I never actually said that. Very dishonest of you to say that I did say that. Tsk tsk.

Great! They exist. So do you consider trans people a minority group? In the same way that gay men are a minority group. In the same way lesbian women are a minority group?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You want me to admit? But I DO think transgender people exist. At least you’re admitting that I never actually said that. Very dishonest of you to say that I did say that. Tsk tsk.

And of course transgender people are a minority group.

Oh tremendous! Ok we're going places. So why is it then that when you're discussing sexual deviance (which you seem to do an awful lot when it comes to trans people) does that minority group distinction suddenly disappear and they become, in your eyes, just men?

CtevenSrowder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I've answered the question, but then you just kind of avoided mine...

Isn't she currently being guarded by 2 prison officers? Isn't that also a case still under review?

Would you say that the constant linking of trans people to sexual deviants casts a negative light on a minority group? Would you say that it's a dirty tactic of people with a hatred of this minority group to link this minority with sexual predators? Would you say this is a deliberate attempt to link the two things?

You didn't answer it. You said it's up to the courts to decide. That's not an answer as I'm asking for your opinion on the situation. So, what is it?

Noone is accusing all trans-people of being sexual predators or linking them for nefarious reasons. The problem itself is self Id. Roughly 48% (in England and Wales) of supposedly trans-people in prison are sex offenders. My guess would be that a portion of those are not actually trans but trying to game the system.

And yes I didn't answer your question, apologies. I believe they would be put in with the men until they can legally change gender.

No doubt people like you and 20c would find this unacceptable and we'd hear the usual musings of "denying trans people exist" etc.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Great! They exist. So do you consider trans people a minority group? In the same way that gay men are a minority group. In the same way lesbian women are a minority group?

I never said otherwise.

And of course they’re a minority group. Your point being?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Oh tremendous! Ok we're going places. So why is it then that when you're discussing sexual deviance (which you seem to do an awful lot when it comes to trans people) does that minority group distinction suddenly disappear and they become, in your eyes, just men?

Because they are biologically male (or female if they are transmen), something that doesn’t and can’t change. In living as transpeople, they are a minority but that doesn’t exempt them from their underlying biology. And if you think it does - yikes.

LineOfBeauty

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

You didn't answer it. You said it's up to the courts to decide. That's not an answer as I'm asking for your opinion on the situation. So, what is it?

Noone is accusing all trans-people of being sexual predators or linking them for nefarious reasons. The problem itself is self Id. Roughly 48% (in England and Wales) of supposedly trans-people in prison are sex offenders. My guess would be that a portion of those are not actually trans but trying to game the system.

And yes I didn't answer your question, apologies. I believe they would be put in with the men until they can legally change gender.

No doubt people like you and 20c would find this unacceptable and we'd hear the usual musings of "denying trans people exist" etc.

Nobody is linking them to sexual deviance? Pages upon pages of Boards discussion about the threat of letting trans people into a changing room or toilet have been imagined?

My answer is that the courts should decide. That if a person is living their life as a certain gender, then that person should be treated as such. That's up to the defendant to prove. The larger point is that if it's such an easy loophole to get around and if no common sense is applied, which seems to be what you're saying, how come nobody has done it yet here?