Jordan Peterson interview on C4

20Cent

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

Now you're belittling the experiences of sexual assault victims. And yet you're the one preaching "compassion"?

In case you haven't noticed, sex offenders can be every bit as determined and desperate to target their victims.

Sex offenders don't have to change gender to offend.
Using sexual abuse victims to justify your bigotry terrible.

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

All of these "metrics" involve trying to find ways to distinguish trans women from natural-born women — which undercuts the activists' claim that trans women are women. You can't have it both ways. You can't recognize someone as a woman but then tell her that "metrics" prevent her from competing in female athletic contests.

Testosterone checks or BMI or whatever. Like they do now. Didn't say prevent anyone. You seem to be making a huge issue out of something that happens already.

nkl12xtw5goz70

20Cent wrote: »

Testosterone checks or BMI or whatever. Like they do now. Didn't say prevent anyone. You seem to be making a huge issue out of something that happens already.

Since you don't appear to have read the article posted above, let me quote a relevant section:

Under the current IOC guidelines, issued in November 2015, athletes who transition from male to female can compete in the women’s category without requiring surgery to remove their testes provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months.

Those guidelines, used by most sports federations to draw up their transgender policies, have proved controversial, given that women’s testosterone levels tend to range between 0.12 and 1.79 nmol/l, while men’s are typically between 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/l.

The Guardian understands some scientists on the IOC panel have argued that reducing the permitted testosterone levels to 5nmol/L – below most males – would provide a reasonable compromise between inclusion and fairness, ensuring that trans women could still compete in the women’s category while taking away most of the advantages of undergoing male puberty.

However, others disagree, pointing to the emerging findings from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, which show that testosterone suppression for transgender women has little effect on reducing muscle strength even after a year of treatment. That indicates that at least some of the physical advantages of those who have gone through male puberty are maintained even after transitioning.

What they "do now" evidently isn't fair to natural-born female athletes. As the article notes, a trans athlete can compete against women if they have testosterone levels under 10 nmol/l, but a natural born woman's testosterone levels tend to range only between 0.12 and 1.79 nmol/l. So a trans athlete could easily have testosterone levels ten or twenty times that of their female competitors. And even if the required testosterone levels are reduced, other research indicates that it wouldn't matter all that much anyway.

20Cent

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

Since you don't appear to have read the article posted above, let me quote a relevant section:



What they "do now" evidently isn't fair to natural-born female athletes. As the article notes, a trans athlete can compete against women if they have testosterone levels under 10 nmol/l, but a natural born woman's testosterone levels tend to range only between 0.12 and 1.79 nmol/l. So a trans athlete could easily have testosterone levels ten or twenty times that of their female competitors. And even if the required testosterone levels are reduced, other research indicates that it wouldn't matter all that much anyway.

This problem isn't impossible to solve different classes of athletic compete against each other all the time. Just a case of finding the right metrics. Not a reason to ban trans people from sports.

nkl12xtw5goz70

20Cent wrote: »

This problem isn't impossible to solve...

So you assure us. Mysteriously, though, numerous top scientists and international athletics bodies don't seem to have any equitable solution to offer natural-born female athletes — and it doesn't look likely that one will emerge anytime soon.

Not a reason to ban trans people from sports.

Yet again, your concern is entirely about trans people. You have nothing to say about the female athletes who are being robbed of equality of opportunity, and sometimes put at serious physical risk, thanks to those pushing the trans agenda in sports.

20Cent

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

So you assure us. Mysteriously, though, numerous top scientists and international athletics bodies don't seem to have any equitable solution to offer natural-born female athletes — and it doesn't look likely that one will emerge anytime soon.



Yet again, your concern is entirely about trans people. You have nothing to say about the female athletes who are being robbed of equality of opportunity, and sometimes put at serious physical risk, thanks to those pushing the trans agenda in sports.

There are plenty of options they haven't agreed on one.

I see you posting about women's sports all the time. Oh wait it's just a stick to justify bigotry towards trans people clear as day.

LineOfBeauty

20Cent wrote: »

There are plenty of options they haven't agreed on one.

I see you posting about women's sports all the time. Oh wait it's just a stick to justify bigotry towards trans people clear as day.

It's been going on for like 4 days non-stop. The sports, the changing rooms, the prisons. My head hurts. No Irish sporting incidents involving trans people. No Irish changing room incidents involving trans people. No Irish prison incidents involving trans people. No abuse of Self ID in the 5 years it's been law. If these people spent as much time caring about issues that have actually taken place in this country and trying to find solutions to those maybe this would be an even better country and there'd certainly be a lot less fear-mongering content online.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

20Cent wrote: »

This problem isn't impossible to solve different classes of athletic compete against each other all the time. Just a case of finding the right metrics. Not a reason to ban trans people from sports.

Unless we allow female athletes to take performance enhancing drugs - that damage their bodies - there is no metric by which they can measure up with transgender women. We’ve seen not particularly in shape transgender men top podiums next to lithe women.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's been going on for like 4 days non-stop. The sports, the changing rooms, the prisons. My head hurts. No Irish sporting incidents involving trans people. No Irish changing room incidents involving trans people. No Irish prison incidents involving trans people. No abuse of Self ID in the 5 years it's been law. If these people spent as much time caring about issues that have actually taken place in this country and trying to find solutions to those maybe this would be an even better country and there'd certainly be a lot less fear-mongering content online.

Is there a time-limit on discussing a topic? And can people not care about more than one thing at a time?

There’s been plenty of examples giving on this thread. Ireland is a low population country so naturally it will take longer for similar things to show up here. But we’re not special. Any of those things could happen here. So we can prevent things rather than treating people like collateral damage.

And considering sexual crimes are often not reported, how do you there have been no changing room incidents?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Is there a time-limit on discussing a topic? And can people not care about more than one thing at a time?

There’s been plenty of examples giving on this thread. Ireland is a low population country so naturally it will take longer for similar things to show up here. But we’re not special. Any of those things could happen here.

Any of those things "could" happen here! I've just read a thread on a different Board about how Russia "could" invade Ireland. Afterall, they have the means to do so and have a history of invading other countries. Does that mean I'm going to live in fear of every waking second of a Russian invasion? No, of course not, that would be ludicrous. Another ice age "could" happen given that it's happened in the past. Does that mean I'm going to fear extinction to come at any moment? No, that's not a life. These phony battlefields of things that "could" happen are little more than dog whistles.

Gynoid

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's been going on for like 4 days non-stop. The sports, the changing rooms, the prisons. My head hurts. No Irish sporting incidents involving trans people. No Irish changing room incidents involving trans people. No Irish prison incidents involving trans people. No abuse of Self ID in the 5 years it's been law. If these people spent as much time caring about issues that have actually taken place in this country and trying to find solutions to those maybe this would be an even better country and there'd certainly be a lot less fear-mongering content online.

It is amusing the way some people attach the qualification "Irish" to their arguments, as if it must happen in Ireland to be real, and yet the
same people argue global climate issues, US politics and entertainment and UK sports. People have had more than their heads hurt elsewhere because of the clash between rights. There have been rapes in prison, rape shelters and severe injuries in sports.

20Cent

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's been going on for like 4 days non-stop. The sports, the changing rooms, the prisons. My head hurts. No Irish sporting incidents involving trans people. No Irish changing room incidents involving trans people. No Irish prison incidents involving trans people. No abuse of Self ID in the 5 years it's been law. If these people spent as much time caring about issues that have actually taken place in this country and trying to find solutions to those maybe this would be an even better country and there'd certainly be a lot less fear-mongering content online.

The worst part is the abuse trans people get from this fear mongering. Assuming they are dishonest or sex offenders. All this backs up the thugs who beat and kill trans people. Pages of bigoted posts then pretend to be all worried about fairness in sports lol

LineOfBeauty

Gynoid wrote: »

It is amusing the way some people attach the qualification "Irish" to their arguments, as if it must happen in Ireland to be real, and yet the
same people argue global climate issues, US politics and entertainment and UK sports. People have had more than their heads hurt elsewhere because of the clash between rights. There have been rapes in prison, rape shelters and severe injuries in sports.

Because we abide by IRISH law! Because the sports arena is controlled by IRISH sporting bodies. Changing rooms controlled by IRISH owners/managers. Prisons run by the IRISH state. We're on an IRISH forum and it's IRISH (!!) trans people who are far more likely to try and kill themselves than you, your wife, your son or your daughter are ever likely to because there are people in IRISH society who make things so intolerable for them to live their lives in peace.

Women should just stfu and deal with whatever the men deem appropriate

So should gay people when they're not useful as an a-ha card anymore

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Any of those things "could" happen here! I've just read a thread on a different Board about how Russia "could" invade Ireland. Afterall, they have the means to do so and have a history of invading other countries. Does that mean I'm going to live in fear of every waking second of a Russian invasion? No, of course not, that would be ludicrous. Another ice age "could" happen given that it's happened in the past. Does that mean I'm going to fear extinction to come at any moment? No, that's not a life. These phony battlefields of things that "could" happen are little more than dog whistles.

Seriously, STFU about dog whistles. Self-ID has caused problems in other countries. Is Ireland special? Why could those issues NOT happen here? We’ve already had a transgender female houses in the Dochas Centre. A sex offender, no less.

Gynoid wrote: »

It is amusing the way some people attach the qualification "Irish" to their arguments, as if it must happen in Ireland to be real, and yet the
same people argue global climate issues, US politics and entertainment and UK sports. People have had more than their heads hurt elsewhere because of the clash between rights. There have been rapes in prison, rape shelters and severe injuries in sports.

But, you see, Ireland is speshul and magical.

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Seriously, STFU about dog whistles. Self-ID has caused problems in other countries. Is Ireland special? Why could those issues NOT happen here? We’ve already had a transgender female houses in the Dochas Centre. A sex offender, no less.

Deal with it. That's what it is and you know it. Refusing to acknowledge trans people as being a thing, not even subtly linking trans people constantly to sex offenders, that's on you.

LineOfBeauty

bluewolf wrote: »

Women should just stfu and deal with whatever the men deem appropriate

So should gay people when they're not useful as an a-ha card anymore

Largest feminist movement in America (if we are leaving the country briefly) are in favour of trans rights.

T stands as part of LGBTQ and I think you'll find the vast majority of OUR group stand in solidarity with them because we know what it's like to be marginalised and to be accused of being sexual deviants.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Deal with it. That's what it is and you know it. Refusing to acknowledge trans people as being a thing, not even subtly linking trans people constantly to sex offenders, that's on you.

Transgender women will commit crimes at the same rates as biological males. Because they are biological males. Biological males carry out by far the most violent crime. I’m not even subtly linking. I’m saying of course some transgender women will be sex offenders because if a certain proportion of biological men are sex offenders then that percentage will hold for transgender women. Why wouldn’t it? But some transgender women want to be allowed into women’s prison where they will have a huge physical advantage over pretty much every woman in the place.

But no sorry, derpy derp dog whistle.

CtevenSrowder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Deal with it. That's what it is and you know it. Refusing to acknowledge trans people as being a thing, not even subtly linking trans people constantly to sex offenders, that's on you.

Do you think it's ok that a convicted sex offender (anatomically male still) is housed with female prisoners?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Transgender women will commit crimes at the same rates as biological males. Because they are biological males. Biological males carry out by far the most violent crime. I’m not even subtly linking. I’m saying of course some transgender women will be sex offenders because if a certain proportion of biological men are sex offenders then that percentage will hold for transgender women. Why wouldn’t it? But some transgender women want to be allowed into women’s prison where they will have a huge physical advantage over pretty much every woman in the place.

But no sorry, derpy derp dog whistle.

Where is that statistic? Seriously you've repeated this like a dozen times but where is the statistic to back it up? I literally did 1 google search, found 1 study and it found that trans people are half as likely to commit a sexual assault than a cis person. How can you possibly debate trans rights then when you refuse to acknowledge the reality of trans people existing? How utterly pointless is that?

One long hateful screech of a dog whistle.

Gynoid

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Deal with it. That's what it is and you know it. Refusing to acknowledge trans people as being a thing, not even subtly linking trans people constantly to sex offenders, that's on you.

Do you know what is on you? The rapes or sexual assault that will result if anyone with bad intent (and I do not mean trans people) self declares their gender to freely enter a sex segregated intimate public space where vulnerable people are undressed or confined without means of escape and assaults people there. No one will be able to object because of Self ID. Those assaults - voyeurism, upskirting, sex assault, intimidation - by anyone (and I do not mean trans people) will be on you because you have insisted on the removal of the rational existence of safeguarding. Every time you hear of such in the future - it is on you, because you championed it and abused people who objected.

LineOfBeauty

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Do you think it's ok that a convicted sex offender (anatomically male still) is housed with female prisoners?

That is entirely for the courts to decide. If a court decides that a person IS transgender, has been living as a transgender person then yes. How many examples are there of this actually happening in our society are there?

If trans people half as likely to commit sexual assault than cis people, is the bigger threat to women male prison guards? I wonder is there more reported cases of male prison guards sexually assaulting prisoners or trans people?

Brian?

bluewolf wrote: »

Women should just stfu and deal with whatever the men deem appropriate

So should gay people when they're not useful as an a-ha card anymore

In fairness, anyone who says that is an idiot. I don't really think anyone is saying that here. I think you can find examples of trans activists saying such things and I would classify them as idiots.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Where is that statistic? Seriously you've repeated this like a dozen times but where is the statistic to back it up? I literally did 1 google search, found 1 study and it found that trans people are half as likely to commit a sexual assault than a cis person. How can you possibly debate trans rights then when you refuse to acknowledge the reality of trans people existing? How utterly pointless is that?

One long hateful screech of a dog whistle.

I’m sorry, you need a statistic to show that biological males will commit crimes at the rate of biological males? Is that what you’re asking me for?

Male prison guards can also be an issue. And?

Can you point to where I said transpeople don’t exist?

Incidentally though, academics have reported struggling to get funding for studies that might challenge the current transgender orthodoxy.

Keep mouthfarting about dog whistles, seriously. It washes over me.

LineOfBeauty

Gynoid wrote: »

Do you know what is on you? The rapes or sexual assault that will result if anyone with bad intent (and I do not mean trans people) self declares their gender to freely enter a sex segregated intimate public space where vulnerable people are undressed or confined without means of escape and assaults people there. No one will be able to object because of Self ID. Those assaults - voyeurism, upskirting, sex assault, intimidation - by anyone (and I do not mean trans people) will be on you because you have insisted on the removal of the rational existence of safeguarding. Every time you hear of such in the future - it is on you, because you championed it and abused people who objected.

It's so strange, if this is so widely known and so open to abuse, in the last 5(!!!) years why has nobody taken up this loophole in our justice system? Are our criminals just really dumb? Do our lawyers not advise their clients well enough? What is it?

LineOfBeauty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m sorry, you need a statistic to show that biological males will commit crimes at the rate of biological males? Is that what you’re asking me for?

I'm asking you to show me the statistic that says trans people commit more sexual assaults than cis people. Show me that stat.

Brian?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m sorry, you need a statistic to show that biological males will commit crimes at the rate of biological males? Is that what you’re asking me for?

That's just being silly, the rates of sexual offences in people who are Trans v those who aren't exist.

creditcarder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Deal with it. That's what it is and you know it. Refusing to acknowledge trans people as being a thing, not even subtly linking trans people constantly to sex offenders, that's on you.

I don't support transgenderism, but I don't really oppose it. The arguments for it are absurd (has there even been a transgender person born with a different brain like ever?), and I find it disturbing that most (until recently) are men to women.



But, on another level, I find it silly how nervous women are around men in general. I mean, why in the world would a man attack you for sex? Sure, if he's a man akin to a junkie/crazy person, but I find it silly how nervous women are about getting sexually attacked. Sorry.

CtevenSrowder

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

That is entirely for the courts to decide. If a court decides that a person IS transgender, has been living as a transgender person then yes. How many examples are there of this actually happening in our society are there?

If trans people half as likely to commit sexual assault than cis people, is the bigger threat to women male prison guards? I wonder is there more reported cases of male prison guards sexually assaulting prisoners or trans people?

That's a cop out. I'm asking whether you think it's OK? Whether it's up to the courts is neither here nor there.

Gynoid

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's so strange, if this is so widely known and so open to abuse, in the last 5(!!!) years why has nobody taken up this loophole in our justice system? Are our criminals just really dumb? Do our lawyers not advise their clients well enough? What is it?

It will be on you. Remember that at some time in the future.

LineOfBeauty

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

That's a cop out. I'm asking whether you think it's OK? Whether it's up to the courts is neither here nor there.

It kind of is though. So far, no examples of a lad turning up to court morning of his sentence in a wig and declaring himself a woman. What do you think the courts would do if that were to happen?