Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Brian?

conorhal wrote: »

Oh! he could have just said millennial.

That is however such an apt description of why society really is going down the tubes though, ...and why tumblr 'otherkin' exist... These folks need a good dose of Peterson's first commandment, 'clean your room!'

Is this directed at me?

Pa ElGrande

Brian? wrote: »

Can you name an act of terrorism committed by Antifa?

ANTIFA members are known for their willingness to use violence and intimidation to silence political, and ideological opponents. Members of ANTIFA have attacked a range of targets, including police, government institutions and symbols of “the capitalist system.”

Exhibit 1.

Exhibit 2.

Exhibit 3.

Brian?

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

ANTIFA members are known for their willingness to use violence and intimidation to silence political, and ideological opponents. Members of ANTIFA have attacked a range of targets, including police, government institutions and symbols of “the capitalist system.”

Exhibit 1.

Exhibit 2.

Exhibit 3.

Grand. Violent rioting. Do we know doe cwrttain they were Antifa?

Any acts of terrorism committed by antifa?

20Cent

I'm confused why is antifa a topic in this thread?

conorhal

Brian? wrote: »

Grand. Violent rioting. Do we know doe cwrttain they were Antifa?

Any acts of terrorism committed by antifa?

Uhhh.. the antifa, banners? The fact that the protest were organized by Antifa? the fact they came in Antifa uniform?
Do you have any evidence they weren't?

I'd hesitate to call them terrorists though, they're more like Hitler's brownshirts, but with a 'progressive' twist, political boot boys.

johnp001

markodaly wrote: »

How does this work? You believe in liberty yet want some kind of redistribution of wealth, carried out by whom exactly?

Brian? wrote: »

Carried our by everyone. Which is the entire point of socialism to begin with.

I sought clarification on this question too and it is covered in Post 342

I'm still unclear as to how personal freedom and its attendent property rights can be reconciled with anything that complies with the dictionary definition of socialism though.
To my understanding property rights directly conflict with the communal ownership and control of the means of production.

Noel82

Brian? wrote: »

Grand. Violent rioting. Do we know doe cwrttain they were Antifa?

Any acts of terrorism committed by antifa?

Do you know what the definition of terrorism is?

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
noun: terrorism
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

From the article I posted that you didn't bother to read

"Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,”

Pa ElGrande

Brian? wrote: »

Carried our by everyone. Which is the entire point of socialism to begin with.

The essay Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth was written in 1920. It explains the primary reason that such an economic system will always fail. It is worth your while to take the time to read this and it's insights have been borne out in the collapse of socialist regimes worldwide.

RDM_83 again

Brian?

You wanted an example of the left bias in academia, how it has a chilling effect on diversity of opinion and so on.
Here is a proper paper analysing the field of psychology, which is convenient since its the most relevant field to this discussion. People aren't just imagining this and the desire to downplay its significance is indicative of the priority of personal views of over whats best for the pursuit of factually sound knowledge

Abstract

A lack of political diversity in psychology is said to lead to a number of pernicious outcomes, including biased research and active discrimination against conservatives. We surveyed a large number (combined N = 800) of social and personality psychologists and discovered several interesting facts. First, although only 6% described themselves as conservative “overall,” there was more diversity of political opinion on economic issues and foreign policy. Second, respondents significantly underestimated the proportion of conservatives among their colleagues. Third, conservatives fear negative consequences of revealing their political beliefs to their colleagues. Finally, they are right to do so: In decisions ranging from paper reviews to hiring, many social and personality psychologists said that they would discriminate against openly conservative colleagues. The more liberal respondents were, the more they said they would discriminate

Very important finding from the paper

Hostility toward and willingness to discriminate against conservatives is widespread. One in six respondents said that she or he would
be somewhat (or more) inclined to discriminate against conservatives in inviting them for symposia or reviewing their work. One in four would discriminate in reviewing their grant applications. More than one in three would discriminate against them when making hiring decisions. Thus, willingness to discriminate is not limited to small decisions. In fact, it is strongest when it comes to the most important decisions

This isn't small stuff, an academic with "the wrong views" could end up loosing their jobs or not being hired in the first place, no matter ones personal political opinion, its an important to have a diversity of opinion particularly in the more subjective fields as we only get to the truth by testing research and hypothesis rigorously.

Database link to paper
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691612448792
PDF link to paper
http://www.yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf

.

Noel82

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-liberal-intolerance.html

"Conservatives can be spotted in the sciences and in economics, but they are virtually an endangered species in fields like anthropology, sociology, history and literature. One study found that only 2 percent of English professors are Republicans (although a large share are independents).

In contrast, some 18 percent of social scientists say they are Marxist. So it’s easier to find a Marxist in some disciplines than a Republican."

The scarcity of conservatives seems driven in part by discrimination. One peer-reviewed study found that one-third of social psychologists admitted that if choosing between two equally qualified job candidates, they would be inclined to discriminate against the more conservative candidate."

Yancey, the black sociologist, who now teaches at the University of North Texas, conducted a survey in which up to 30 percent of academics said that they would be less likely to support a job seeker if they knew that the person was a Republican."

20Cent

Noel82 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-liberal-intolerance.html

"Conservatives can be spotted in the sciences and in economics, but they are virtually an endangered species in fields like anthropology, sociology, history and literature. One study found that only 2 percent of English professors are Republicans (although a large share are independents).

In contrast, some 18 percent of social scientists say they are Marxist. So it’s easier to find a Marxist in some disciplines than a Republican."

The scarcity of conservatives seems driven in part by discrimination. One peer-reviewed study found that one-third of social psychologists admitted that if choosing between two equally qualified job candidates, they would be inclined to discriminate against the more conservative candidate."

Yancey, the black sociologist, who now teaches at the University of North Texas, conducted a survey in which up to 30 percent of academics said that they would be less likely to support a job seeker if they knew that the person was a Republican."

As Jordan Peterson says maybe different personality types are attracted to different careers. A conservative republican probably doesn't believe in science anyway don't they disregard all the evidence for global warming and tend to be religious.

Max Prophet

20Cent wrote: »

I'm confused why is antifa a topic in this thread?

No change there lad, you're confused about a lot....

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057832584/34/#post105934345

Brian?

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Brian?

You wanted an example of the left bias in academia, how it has a chilling effect on diversity of opinion and so on.
Here is a proper paper analysing the field of psychology, which is convenient since its the most relevant field to this discussion. People aren't just imagining this and the desire to downplay its significance is indicative of the priority of personal views of over whats best for the pursuit of factually sound knowledge

Abstract



Very important finding from the paper


This isn't small stuff, an academic with "the wrong views" could end up loosing their jobs or not being hired in the first place, no matter ones personal political opinion, its an important to have a diversity of opinion particularly in the more subjective fields as we only get to the truth by testing research and hypothesis rigorously.

Database link to paper
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691612448792
PDF link to paper
http://www.yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf

.

I acknowledged long ago their is a bias, I never asked for examples.

Brian?

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The essay Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth was written in 1920. It explains the primary reason that such an economic system will always fail. It is worth your while to take the time to read this and it's insights have been borne out in the collapse of socialist regimes worldwide.

As far as I can see, this Pertains to authoritarian socialism and its flawed implementation that was Leninism.

It’s why I use the distinguishing name of “libertarian socialism”.

Rory28

20Cent wrote: »

As Jordan Peterson says maybe different personality types are attracted to different careers. A conservative republican probably doesn't believe in science anyway don't they disregard all the evidence for global warming and tend to be religious.

Come on now. Thats a gross generalization. Just because there are loons on the right doesnt mean they all are. I'm no fan of republicans but I know not to tar them all with the same brush.

Pa ElGrande

20Cent wrote: »

A conservative republican probably doesn't believe in science anyway don't they disregard all the evidence for global warming and tend to be religious.

The most prominent people who profess their belief in global warming don't believe the science either and manifest this cognitive dissonance in their ownership of oceanfront property, private jet flights and energy footprint and they do financially very very well due to fossil fuels. When their actions don't match their words, how can they believe the science? or is it a case of Lord make me pure but not today?

Brian?

Noel82 wrote: »

Do you know what the definition of terrorism is?

Yes. Thanks.

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
noun: terrorism
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

That’s the one.

From the article I posted that you didn't bother to read

How do you know I didn’t read it?

"Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,”

They’re wrong. Antifa are sometimes violent thugs. They are not terrorists.

Any chance of some examples of terrorist acts committed by Antifa?

Brian?

johnp001 wrote: »

I sought clarification on this question too and it is covered in Post 342

I'm still unclear as to how personal freedom and its attendent property rights can be reconciled with anything that complies with the dictionary definition of socialism though.
To my understanding property rights directly conflict with the communal ownership and control of the means of production.

Ideally you create a society where the desire to own property no longer exists as one no longer needs to own property. It becomes pointless.

Rory28

Brian? wrote: »

Yes. Thanks.



That’s the one.



How do you know I didn’t read it?



They’re wrong. Antifa are sometimes violent thugs. They are not terrorists.

Any chance of some examples of terrorist acts committed by Antifa?

So you know more about antifa than homeland security? what source would convince you if not them?

20Cent

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The most prominent people who profess their belief in global warming don't believe the science either and manifest this cognitive dissonance in their ownership of oceanfront property, private jet flights and energy footprint and they do financially very very well due to fossil fuels. When their actions don't match their words, how can they believe the science? or is it a case of Lord make me pure but not today?

You don't think man made climate change is real?

Brian?

Rory28 wrote: »

So you know more about antifa than homeland security? what source would convince you if not them?

I dunno. Evidence that they’re committing acts of terrorism might do the job.

The FBI are going down the same road with Antifa that they went with the Black Panthers in the 60s. They’ll be marginalized, hounded and antagonized until they react. Boom, we told you they were terrorists all along.

Brian?

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The most prominent people who profess their belief in global warming don't believe the science either and manifest this cognitive dissonance in their ownership of oceanfront property, private jet flights and energy footprint and they do financially very very well due to fossil fuels. When their actions don't match their words, how can they believe the science? or is it a case of Lord make me pure but not today?

It would have been handy for you to post this earlier. It would have saved anyone debating you rationally.

Rory28

Brian? wrote: »

I dunno. Evidence that they’re committing acts of terrorism might do the job.

The FBI are going down the same road with Antifa that they went with the Black Panthers in the 60s. They’ll be marginalized, hounded and antagonized until they react. Boom, we told you they were terrorists all along.

Or maybe the FBI know what they are doing and labelled Antifa as such. Its not 1960 America anymore man.

Pa ElGrande

Brian? wrote: »

As far as I can see, this Pertains to authoritarian socialism and its flawed implementation that was Leninism.

It’s why I use the distinguishing name of “libertarian socialism”.

Heard it all before, that was not real socialism and the new socialist man. Libertarian socialism is just Chomskys imagination. You should observe Chomsky likes the current system. He just don't want to admit it, because he makes money by being critical of the current system.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Ideally you create a society where the desire to own property no longer exists as one no longer needs to own property. It becomes pointless.

Isn't that a fantasy though? ownership of property (and the perception of value that comes with/from it) tends to be something that human civilizations move towards. I can only think of a few South American primitive tribes that managed without such ownership (and stayed primitive).

Sounds like a pipe-dream.

Rory28

Brian? wrote: »

It would have been handy for you to post this earlier. It would have saved anyone debating you rationally.

Yea. How can anyone not think global warming is real after all the mad weather that has been happening around the world. even our weather has been getting more extreme

Pa ElGrande

Brian? wrote: »

It would have been handy for you to post this earlier. It would have saved anyone debating you rationally.

:P :rolleyes:

Rory28

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't that a fantasy though? ownership of property (and the perception of value that comes with/from it) tends to be something that human civilizations move towards. I can only think of a few South American primitive tribes that managed without such ownership (and stayed primitive).

Sounds like a pipe-dream.

Socialism sounds good on paper. unless that paper is a history book

20Cent

Rory28 wrote: »

Or maybe the FBI know what they are doing and labelled Antifa as such. Its not 1960 America anymore man.

just searched fbi.gov website for antifa.
0 results.

Fr Tod Umptious

Brian? wrote: »

Ideally you create a society where the desire to own property no longer exists as one no longer needs to own property. It becomes pointless.

That's utopian fantasy stuff.

Utopias always fail.

If you really believe what you posted then I'm not sure you belong in a conversation with adults anymore.