Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

the sheriff is HERE

baylah17 wrote: »

I didn't call you an expert, I called you out for bluffing.
And I did answer the question regarding Crumlin.

no bluffing, i already said way back im not from dublin so im no expert, your words not mine. you picked out drones, spotters, im not saying they use them 24/7, i use encryption, drones, and trackers myself, they definitely use them.

you answered about guards, not crime or drugs, gangs,or if there is even drugs services in that area.

im not trying either to sh!te on everyone from crumlin, im only trying to look at the bigger picture, if i can see it. if that's a crime lock me up!

the sheriff is HERE

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Couldnt agree with you more re alcohol causing serious problems! But no one is being murdered in the alcohol trade

But any one using cocaine has thousands of innocent people's blood on their hands is a perfectly valid point.

i can link to some horrible murders due to drink.

ive caused more trouble for myself and others due to drink but because its legal its acceptable, illegal drugs no, im a scumbag, i wasn't born an addict, i became an addict, because of successive failure by our government, leaders to deal and openly tackle illegal drug misuse or abuse or even rebilation

we as a island, created these bastards, we can stop them with leadership and open discussions re them issues or even part legislation, and devert the profits to the guards or health services, or elderly or homeless services.

the resources used for drink events and gardai dealing with eejits(including myself) due to drink and even pharmaceuticals is shocking, but you're hailed before the courts and convinced for a bit of personal weed even if the guard dealing with you thinks you're alright , but all my drink caused trouble ive no conviction for, vested interests and all that.

what is the drink industry worth or sale a year in Ireland or even pharmaceuticals, whats the drain on our health system due to legal intoxicants?

apologies about me rambles.

baylah17

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

i can link to some horrible murders due to drink.

ive caused more trouble for myself and others due to drink but because its legal its acceptable, illegal drugs no, im a scumbag, i wasn't born an addict, i became an addict, because of successive failure by our government, leaders to deal and openly tackle illegal drug misuse or abuse or even rebilation

we as a island, created these bastards, we can stop them with leadership and open discussions re them issues or even part legislation, and devert the profits to the guards or health services, or elderly or homeless services.

the resources used for drink events and gardai dealing with eejits(including myself) due to drink and even pharmaceuticals is shocking, but you're hailed before the courts and convinced for a bit of personal weed even if the guard dealing with you thinks you're alright , but all my drink caused trouble ive no conviction for, vested interests and all that.

what is the drink industry worth or sale a year in Ireland or even pharmaceuticals, whats the drain on our health system due to legal intoxicants?

apologies about me rambles.

Im not aware of any organized crime syndicate in either the Pharmaceutical or Brewing/Distilling industries that are sending out hitmen on the streets of Ireland to wipe out competitors or make examples of those who owe money.
And why is it the Governments fault that you are an addict? You have personal choice and personal responsibility, did the Government kidnap you and shoot you full of drugs?
Its all the governments fault is just a huge cop-out!

the sheriff is HERE

baylah17 wrote: »

Im not aware of any organized crime syndicate in either the Pharmaceutical or Brewing/Distilling industries that are sending out hitmen on the streets of Ireland to wipe out competitors or make examples of those who owe money.
And why is it the Governments fault that you are an addict? You have personal choice and personal responsibility, did the Government kidnap you and shoot you full of drugs?
Its all the governments fault is just a huge cop-out!

go reply to my post for you please.

simply put, i wasn't born a addict, i became an addict, because of the area i was brought up in with no services and the issue of they (dealers) didnt have 'soft' drugs or were pushing harder drugs, so i was offered 'harder' drugs,

monkey see monkey do.

ohnonotgmail

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

go reply to my post for you please.

simply put, i wasn't born a addict, i became an addict, because of the area i was brought up in with no services and the issue of they (dealers) didnt have 'soft' drugs or were pushing harder drugs, so i was offered 'harder' drugs,

monkey see monkey do.

plenty of people born in areas with no services did not become addicts. conversely people born in affluent areas with great services become addicts.

Chrongen

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Couldnt agree with you more re alcohol causing serious problems! But no one is being murdered in the alcohol trade

But any one using cocaine has thousands of innocent people's blood on their hands is a perfectly valid point.

Anyone driving a car has the blood of millions of innocent civilians on their hands. The fact that the blood was spilled by armies of conquest instead of narco-paramilitaries matters little to the dead.

benny79

benny79 wrote: »

Drugs and crime is everywhere not just Crumlin its as easy to get as a bag of sugar from crumlin to a small country town.

Whats the difference in the innocent man been shot in Spain and Veronica Guerin? Veronica was someone of importance and not someone who would really class as working class if you get me Cab was set up and the John Gilligan gang smashed.

That chap in Spain was from Drimnagh working class area and just brushed under the carpet by the Government its terrible blah blah. I dare say if he was from Clontarf or foxrock it be a different story! That's the society we live in.

Who's fault is it! The fcuking governments for letting these people get so big in the first place or anyone for that matter mickey mouse jails and sentences Gilligan had a 42" telly in his cell ffs! We let Gilligan, and the likes of Larry Murphy out! This would never happen in the states.. Our police force are on a very poor wage and in disarray. And people are shocked when they find out some are corrupt :rolleyes:

If your looking for someone to blame its the GOVERNMENT and we are no better for standing for it...

I think that an investigative journalist being deliberately targeted and assassinated due to her work is so obviously a different case to an uninvolved man being killed due to mistaken identity that's it's really difficult to put any credence in the rest of the wild conclusions in your post.

the sheriff is HERE

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

plenty of people born in areas with no services did not become addicts. conversely people born in affluent areas with great services become addicts.

agreed, totally. i can only go on my own experience.

Maybe my parents didnt have the parental skills needed at the time, i dont know the answer to that.

Hoboo

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Couldnt agree with you more re alcohol causing serious problems! But no one is being murdered in the alcohol trade

But any one using cocaine has thousands of innocent people's blood on their hands is a perfectly valid point.

Make alcohol illegal and see how long that lasts...prohibition doesn't work.

The thing is, anyone who wears clothes made in India has innocent blood on their hands......anyone with a diamond ring, anyone with a mobile phone.....ad infinitum. But thats ok, once its legal and not affecting us. (not having a go at your post, just making a point its the world we live in)

brainfreeze

baylah17 wrote: »

Im not aware of any organized crime syndicate in either the Pharmaceutical or Brewing/Distilling industries that are sending out hitmen on the streets of Ireland to wipe out competitors or make examples of those who owe money.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Couldnt agree with you more re alcohol causing serious problems! But no one is being murdered in the alcohol trade

But any one using cocaine has thousands of innocent people's blood on their hands is a perfectly valid point.

That's because it it's legal, and sold by legitimate companies.

You don't even have to look at the middle east, just look across the pond at America. When Alcohol was illegal there, people were being murdered over it. It's no different to the drug trade, in the 20s and 30s in America, alcohol was the drug trade.

And in terms of feuds, the St Valentines Day Massacre was over control of the alcohol trade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Valentine%27s_Day_Massacre

Cocaine isn't special. It's not a magical substance that makes people murder each other. It's a restricted substance that is in demand so dodgy types will always fight over the supply. Even people murder over legal substances (Coltan, Gold, Diamonds, Oil) if the supply is tight. Cocaine isn't rare, the reason people fight over controlling the supply, is simply based on artificial restrictions due to legality.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

have you an example of thousands being murdered in the course of supplying my A5? I'd certainly consider an alternative next time I'm getting a phone...

If that was a serious comment, you should probably avoid all mobile phones. Conflict minerals make your A5.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan#Ethics_of_mining_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_Congo

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/opinion/27kristof.html


And Coltan aside, even the Cobolt in your Samsung phone is mined by children.

Where its estimated one person dies in Colombia for every g snorted in UK.

As of 2012, It is estimated two children die to obtain enough coltan for one mobile phone. At least two children died for you to have your A5. Using your own logic, and your own words, you have blood on your hands. Even more so than someone buying a gram of cocaine.

Are you going to consider alternatives to mobile phones? You are funding the murderous Coltan trade and people are dying over your purchases.

CantGetNoSleep

Blaming the government for becoming an addict is one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard

the sheriff is HERE

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Blaming the government for becoming an addict is one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard

they the legalators of our island (government) have never dealt with issues or services in relation to education, services, treatment re illegal drugs, which have been consumed here for 30 or 40 years, and consumption of said illegal and legal drugs are sky rocketing year on year and has created the likes of the kinahans as long as the elites live in their ivory towers drugs issues relating to illegal or legal drugs dont exist.we irish people are lead by our government. you can find reports of serious drug misuse and certain government officials trying to do something about it in the early 90s but irish water and public service cards or charging people for their own personal use of drugs were/are more important than the governments people.

i for one accept my addictions and strive to better myself in all aspects of my life without help from government so laugh away, big boy.

steve-collins

I've known plenty of heroine addicts in my life . Friends etc and one thing is the same of the lot of them they all blame there addictions and problems on someone else . Always looking to point the finger instead of looking inward.

the sheriff is HERE

steve-collins wrote: »

I've known plenty of heroine addicts in my life . Friends etc and one thing is the same of the lot of them they all blame there addictions and problems on someone else . Always looking to point the finger instead of looking inward.

i can tell you, as an addict we realise the harm we cause and accept criticism of our behaviour or addiction,
have you ever had any addiction?
do you say the same, for acholics, prescription drug abusers, over the counter pain medication misusers?

we irish are encouraged to binge drink, its in our culture and vested interests in government and the vinters association of Ireland there is no problem there, no sire bob.

weldoninhio

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

i can tell you, as an addict we realise the harm we cause and accept criticism of our behaviour or addiction,
have you ever had any addiction?
do you say the same, for acholics, prescription drug abusers, over the counter pain medication misusers?

we irish are encouraged to binge drink, its in our culture and vested interests in government and the vinters association of Ireland there is no problem there, no sire bob.

I mustn't have gotten my letter of encouragement from the govt and the vintners. Have you a scan of it there. I find, and my posts are there over the last few months on the MUP thread, that the govt are trying to nanny me into drinking less, which i find pathetic.

the sheriff is HERE

weldoninhio wrote: »

I mustn't have gotten my letter of encouragement from the govt and the vintners. Have you a scan of it there. I find, and my posts are there over the last few months on the MUP thread, that the govt are trying to nanny me into drinking less, which i find pathetic.

whoosh, when you take the time to reply properly, ill engage with you, until than

pathetic is people who only see their POV, and that's you.

bye.

Boom_Bap

well then, someone has been shot, should we get the discussion back on topic?

the sheriff is HERE

Boom_Bap wrote: »

well then, someone has been shot, should we get the discussion back on topic?

murdered more like it.

Thursday in Dublin's north inner city.

A family friend wrote on Facebook: "We as a community, have organised a candle lit vigil on Thursday the 25th January at 8pm, meeting at Our Lady of Lourdes Church and having a short walk up Sean McDermott Street to the memorial on Buckingham Street in memory of Derek Hutch to show support to the Coakley/Hutch family at this devastating time. All is welcome (sic)".

the irish mirror.

nelly17

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

they the legalators of our island (government) have never dealt with issues or services in relation to education, services, treatment re illegal drugs, which have been consumed here for 30 or 40 years, and consumption of said illegal and legal drugs are sky rocketing year on year and has created the likes of the kinahans as long as the elites live in their ivory towers drugs issues relating to illegal or legal drugs dont exist.we irish people are lead by our government. you can find reports of serious drug misuse and certain government officials trying to do something about it in the early 90s but irish water and public service cards or charging people for their own personal use of drugs were/are more important than the governments people.

i for one accept my addictions and strive to better myself in all aspects of my life without help from government so laugh away, big boy.

Accept your addictions or accept personal responsibility for your addictions because you seem to be suggesting its the governments fault you're addicted to something because they're not doing enough to help you as an individual but in reality the addiction is created by the individual and the individual alone unless you talk of something like babies born with addiction.

Roger Hassenforder

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is because the trade is legal and regulated. If we made alcohol illegal tomorrow we would have the same gang problems with alcohol as we do with drugs. Actually the problems would be a lot bigger. Cf. the usa during prohibition.

True
But thats not the point were discussing though!

Point is anyone using cocaine had innocents blood on their hands.

Roger Hassenforder

Chrongen wrote: »

Anyone driving a car has the blood of millions of innocent civilians on their hands. The fact that the blood was spilled by armies of conquest instead of narco-paramilitaries matters little to the dead.

The mother of all whataboutery!

the sheriff is HERE

nelly17 wrote: »

Accept your addictions or accept personal responsibility for your addictions because you seem to be suggesting its the governments fault you're addicted to something because they're not doing enough to help you as an individual but in reality the addiction is created by the individual and the individual alone unless you talk of something like babies born with addiction.

bull crap, ill die an addict, im beyond help ive had addictions from mid teens,my problem is if we (irish people and government) dont try, re education, services and quality control, we'll have bigger problems than the kinahans, others are eyeing their patchs and distributors because of all the heat on them at the moment.

or we'll be exploding with all the new synthetic drugs been created at the moment.

what about legal drugs of all kinds are they better?

or should it be left the way its at the moment?

Roger Hassenforder

brainfreeze wrote: »

That's because it it's legal, and sold by legitimate companies.

You don't even have to look at the middle east, just look across the pond at America. When Alcohol was illegal there, people were being murdered over it. It's no different to the drug trade, in the 20s and 30s in America, alcohol was the drug trade.

Cocaine isn't special. It's not a magical substance that makes people murder each other. It's a restricted substance that is in demand so dodgy types will always fight over the supply. Even people murder over legal substances (Coltan, Gold, Diamonds, Oil) if the supply is tight. Cocaine isn't rare, the reason people fight over controlling the supply, is simply based on artificial restrictions due to legality.

If that was a serious comment, you should probably avoid all mobile phones. Conflict minerals make your A5.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan#Ethics_of_mining_in_the_Democratic_Republic_of_Congo

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/opinion/27kristof.html


And Coltan aside, even the Cobolt in your Samsung phone is mined by children.

As of 2012, It is estimated two children die to obtain enough coltan for one mobile phone. At least two children died for you to have your A5. Using your own logic, and your own words, you have blood on your hands. Even more so than someone buying a gram of cocaine.

Are you going to consider alternatives to mobile phones? You are funding the murderous Coltan trade and people are dying over your purchases.

jasis Prohibition though, not exactly relevant any more. they banned Catholicism as well, and we'd problems with that once legalised.

interesting re. the cobalt trade though, and you're right, maybe I need to have more regard to corporate ethics before buying a new phone. why stop at cobalt extraction, why not include labour practises etc.



But 2 kids for every mobile phone sounds a bit sketchy... there's now more mobiles than people in the world (obviously not everyone has a damned A5)


But with regard to the cocaine (just another commodity eh, just restricted?), i can only do my bit and not buy it, therefore not creating a market to supply me, therefore not enabling the likes of the Kinehans, and therefore having less blood on my hands.

the sheriff is HERE

https://twitter.com/padraig_reilly/status/956628016335114240?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E0

vigil of remembrance for derek coakley hutch.
a very nice gesture by the local community.

hatrickpatrick

Mutant z wrote: »

Who cares about criminals killing each other let them at it i say.

I have friends who live a few streets over from where a lot of these guys live so it kinda pisses me off that so many "known criminals" with numerous convictions aren't properly locked up in this country. Would much prefer if inner city Dublin and its suburbs could be regarded as safe places because when someone is involved in violent crime, they get put away for long enough to take them out of the game altogether.

I know what you mean, like I never paid too much attention to this stuff until people I know started living in the affected parts of the city. When I started college, there were specific streets around Dublin 8 which were dirt cheap for rent - we never really questioned why until people started having their gaffs burgled on a routine basis and getting assaulted with expensive equipment being stolen from them when walking to and from college.

Once you start seeing that this kind of thing is just "known" in the middle of our country's capital city and yet the people involved are consistently given a slap on the wrist and released back into society, it'll start to seriously piss you off.

I always laughed at the scene in Love/Hate in which Detective Moynihan remarked that if they could catch Nidge with his heroin shipment they'd have a chance of putting him away for twenty years. We all know in reality that if a violent criminal like him was actually caught and convicted in Ireland, they'd receive a sentence which, counting remissions and suspensions, wouldn't even almost make it into the double digits. Those scumbags who burgled a family in Tipperary and beat the crap out of a man in front of his young children got something like 5 years apiece when you disregard the suspended parts of the sentences - it's just not good enough, there'll be another burglary exactly like that once all those assholes are back together again in a couple of years.

I mean I get what you're saying, but it's more complex - a lot of the Hutches who've been murdered have been stated by the Gardai and the newspapers to have had no involvement in crime. Should we turn a blind eye just because they're related to a criminal involved in the feud? Was it acceptable, during the days of the Rattigan v Thompson feud, that peoples' younger siblings with nothing to do with the feud were being harassed by older kids in the school playground and on the street? I read one fairly horrible story back in those days about someone's very young brother (too young to be involved in crime anyway) being cornered by a mob near the Crumlin shopping centre and having his new puppy stabbed to death, just because his brother was aligned to the other side of the feud. Those f*ckers should be buried alive with jail sentences, not put away as a token gesture for a year or two and then allowed to resume their bullsh!t. They have no humanity, no empathy, and apparently no conscience.

Now obviously my post will appear biased against the Crumlin side of the feud but that's just because I know people who've live around the area for years. I have no doubt that Sheriff Street can be just as brutal a place if you just happen to be a good person unfortunate enough to have a WKTG (well known to Gardai) living next door to you - in fact I'm pretty sure one of the shootings was outside a pub on that very street and involved a case of mistaken identity. Fellow killed just because he happened to look like a target and was, probably unbeknownst to himself, having a smoke outside the pub the gang were expecting to find the actual target in.

People condemn the three strikes rule in America and rightly so, because it applies to everything. We don't have to copy that here, but we should copy it very specifically for organised, violent offenses. I'm not suggesting we lock people up for life for dealing drugs, smoking a joint at home or getting too many parking tickets - but someone who is involved in gun crime, attempted murders, or feud related violence of any kind should get very, very few chances to quit before we as a society decide to just put them somewhere they can't menace the rest of us. I don't see that as unreasonable. Hell, if someone is redeemable, then three chances - with lengthy jail time or house arrest in between so they can't directly continue their involvement in whatever gang they're part of - should be more than enough to determine whether someone is committed to a life of scumbaggery or has just set foot down the wrong path and needs steering in the right direction.

It takes a very rare and particular kind of human being to look someone else in the face and empty a gun into them unprovoked. As far as I'm concerned, that kind of person just shouldn't be welcome in Irish society. I don't feel that's a monstrously right wing thing to say. People with hyper aggressive, sociopathic personality types / disorders simply should not be regarded as free citizens like ordinary people.

How about this, if prison space is an issue: 24/7 GPS tracking, accessible by Gardai through the pulse system, for these people with numerous convictions for gangland offenses. So the next time there's any sort of violent incident - shooting, assault, car firebombing, anything at all - the Gardai can pull up a map with a "dot" for every tagged gang member over the last 24 hours, and say "ah, the car was torched on Grafton Street at 5:45AM, and hatrickpatrick and Mutant Z are on this map as having been at that exact location at 5:45AM. We also know that they had a feud going on with the guy who owned the car. There's our suspects, let's get cracking so we can bring them before the court and make sure they get put away long enough to spare the victim any further such attacks, at least for as long as the courts will give us that freedom for."

I simply don't believe that there is no way we can change the law to facilitate the idea that some people can't just do their time and then once again be regarded as totally innocent people. We have a sex offenders' registry with all sorts of restrictions on peoples' freedom even after they get out of jail - why can't we have a gangland registry which operates in a similar manner?

I fully believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty, but if I've been proven guilty before today, and I'm subsequently found to have been at or near the scene where a known enemy of mine got assaulted or murdered, surely that should be enough to allow the Gardai to regard me as an incredibly likely suspect in the case, and surely that should be something which should be allowed as evidence in court? "Your honour, we know he was there, and we know he hated the deceased and has been jailed previously for gun offences"?

It just can't be as difficult as they make out, to end the paradigm of being "well known to the Gardai with <triple digit figure> previous convictions and now suspected of yet another gangland murder". It can't be - there has to be a solution other than "let them at it".

refusetolose

another shooting tonight...

Omackeral

refusetolose wrote: »

another shooting tonight...

Gardai are currently responding to a 'shooting incident' on the South Circular road.

A garda spokesperson confirmed that a number of units rushed to the scene near Griffith College.
It is believed a man was shot although they are not thought to have received life threatening injuries.
The scene is currently sealed off as gardai deal with the incident.


From DublinLive

septictank

Griffith College, SCR.

refusetolose

https://twitter.com/padraig_reilly/status/957016060909236224

#BreakingNews.
3 people have been shot at a boxing event in the National Stadium

Omackeral

Copper Chopper is over head right now.